Reality checking yourself.

[rangrz]

So, I am wondering if anyone else does this. When I do psychedelics, I like to have a notebook or a computer with me. Because I want to record my tripping thoughts and then do a reality check on them when I'm sober. Even better if I have a computer with me, because that way if I am thinking about, say, the 5th dimension, I can cruise on over to Wolfram science, or arxiv and read a paper or something, and it reminds me that my idea was just plain silly and that I should dismiss it outright.

Similarly, when I write down my thoughts on the universe, and then check when I'm sober, I find without exception that it is patent nonsense and pointless to pursue these ideas any further.

So yeah, does anyone else check their trippy thoughts after the fact? Or during? How do you do it, and how do your ideas on psychedelics correspond to objective reality?

 

[JPaz79]

lol this is funny you say this because I have actually done this and wrote down or at least tried to remember some of what I've encountered while tripping. It usually feels and seems really deep and meaningful but in the end when I look back at it I go "what the hell was I thinking?!" haha

Tripping for me is one of my favorite things to do and I love how deep it makes me think about things but I often find that it goes no where and has no correlation to factual science.

I don't know about anyone else but for me, mainly with LSD, I find that the first half of the trip is completely confusing and just full of things that do not make sense at all but after I peak and start to come down, things seem to fall into place and I'm less confused but feel enlightened in a sense.

Next time I trip, I may actually do this and see where it goes afterwards. However, I find it VERY hard to coherently write, let alone type, anything haha.

If I were to give you advice on this, I'd say keep it going and next time you trip, look over your notes and see if you can expand and add to your thoughts and maybe things will fall into place. Tripping is a very powerful thing for me and very insightful to my personal ego and has changed my life and how I perceive things that we usually take for granted.

I'd be interested to see if you have any developments if you follow what I said Next time I trip I will probably do this and see what results I get myself!

Happy tripping!

 

[Transgender Panda]

I usually cant type or write my thoughts well when I am tripping. However I do Either turn on a webcam and record so I can voice my thoughts and go over it later. To be honest a webcam makes for an awesome trip toy and I can almost remember my trips as I watch my reactions after I come down.

To answer your question though, yes most defiantly I reality check myself to go over some of the ideals I might have developed on a trip. So I can look at from a rational state of mind as well. Somethings seem so concrete when tripping but upon looking through your rational eyes when you get back they can become implausible and vise verse.

Also It helps me remember a lot of concepts I would have forgot so that's a plus as well.

My Ideas on the correspondence of the mind at large while tripping Vs the confined mind of being baseline is that we should take it with a grain of salt. There are something that are defiantly metaphysical about Psychedelia but is of course not able to be proved and unexplainable so that is more of the realm of cognitive behavioral, spritual, and self introspective in nature so different for everyone.
It can also be used to think outside of the box to form more concrete ideal in the areas of physics, abstract mathematics, pretty much any subject, by allowing us to form new ideas outside the box.

So for me its Yin and Yang. All about how the individual thinks.

 

[lazydullard]

I like to use a notebook. The same notebook when possible. I do a surface reality check: Example: Do I really think cutting off my ear is going to bring me divine knowledge? Yes. BUT: can I afford to go to a 72 hour psychiatric hold right now? Nah. So that idea gets cancelled.

Beyond that, I assume value in every session, and that every word and sentence is a emotional-perceptual component to my ultimate goal. I like to review my notes, understand the feeling I had when I was thinking those thoughts, and try to pursue that feeling in later trips. It's the specific emotional feeling I chase each time. My idea is that when I reach the apex of the emotion, I'll come out with some awesome messiah break-through and unite the human race with my current pet philosophies.

I'm fortunate that I don't actually need to be in reality except rarely. I believe all my notebooks are going to be the next bible or something. It feels good.

 

[rangrz]

So, I suppose that for me tripping has no inherent purpose or meaning beyond pure recreation: It's fun, it can be outright euphoric, depending on the substance (euphoric in the visceral way that drugs like opiates/amphetamines/benzos are, or euphoric in the visceral way that being petted by your lover is, physical/sensory euphoria) esp with MDMA/MDA, ketamine etc. It's a way to pass some time. But I don't treat it as being spiritual, enlightening, productive or anything of that of sort.

But I never the less like to record it, and just see if I am missing "something" as so many people claim it to be these things, but as I said in my original post, post trip analysis of the ideas demonstrate that it's really not, and this reinforces my stance on it being essentially, for the lulz.

Also It helps me remember a lot of concepts I would have forgot so that's a plus as well.

This I actually do find. But only to the extent of reminding to go back and look more into the concept when I'm sober. The other day I was "quasi-tripping" (a mix of sleep deprivation, cannabis and amphetamine...not quite a proper trip, but the combo was close enough that it was trippy) and I was thinking Riemannian geometry, a subject which I love, have studied a fair amount, but which in the last month or month and half had sort not visited cause it was not too relevant to my studies and such. In so far as the tripping reminding me of it and getting me to go hit the books, it indeed did that. My specific ideas I had about it while tripping however, where genuinely absurd and where meaningless in the strongest use of that word.

I've had some emotionally meaningful and/or useful experiences, but I really do think it had more to do with a loss of inhibitions than the psychedelia, and if we (the various people I tripped with over the years and myself) had been not tripping, but the same level of openness and loss of inhibition, I think it would of been even more productive and much easier.

It's cool to see other people do the same thing tho. I'd like to try it with a sober "peer reviewer" to bounce my ideas off of live in real time and see what they conclude about the ideas vs reality...

 

[Transgender Panda]

See That's Is what I mean for you its very "recreational" as you say for me it's very "spiritual". To me there is no right answer to what Psychedelics can provide us we just take it for what its worth . I could never apply trippy thoughts to concrete ideas like I am sure you can. For me its the opposite.

Collaboration of everyone's idea's in a melting pot is what makes up the world anyways

Very Cool thoughts and thread I look forward to seeing how others go about it.

 

[Foreigner]

Aside from the fact that I can't write or type while I'm tripping, I don't really consider tripping to be a departure from reality. Sober and high states are all one continuous reality, just as being asleep and dreaming and being awake are all one continuous reality. As long as I can function in my day to day world and my tripping experiences bring useful meaning to my life, then I don't care to do reality checks.

"Reality" vs. "Non-reality" is a duality I don't tend to tango with.

 

[zn13bt]

If your tripping thoughts are gibberish, probably you're taking too much. Try a lower dose next time?

(XKCD #323 has a helpful graph about this principle)

 

[Splitz]

I personally think it spoils the fun of having nonsensical, out-there thoughts if you dismiss them before the trip's over. You can gain some valuable insights while tripping but it's down to the sober you to then sieve those nuggets out from the inevitable stream of complete cods wallop (been waiting to use that phrase for a long time!) And the things of value are usually simple things that you should know but perhaps forget.

I don't write the stuff down very often, because usually I'm too distracted. But the thoughts that were any good or particularly fun I'd remember, and the rest I'm content to let drift into nothing. I have written lyrics while tripping though, and that's the best thing- they don't need to make sense. You should enjoy the creativity of your thoughts even if you can't value their content, I reckon.

 

[rangrz]

If your tripping thoughts are gibberish, probably you're taking too much. Try a lower dose next time?

(XKCD #323 has a helpful graph about this principle)

lulz. I xkcd.

I suppose at a lower enough dose, it can help, but usually for me, that means such a lower dose that it's acting more as stimulant than a psychedelic. The are minimum threshold dose kind of deal.

 

[specialspack]

So, I am wondering if anyone else does this. When I do psychedelics, I like to have a notebook or a computer with me. Because I want to record my tripping thoughts and then do a reality check on them when I'm sober. Even better if I have a computer with me, because that way if I am thinking about, say, the 5th dimension, I can cruise on over to Wolfram science, or arxiv and read a paper or something, and it reminds me that my idea was just plain silly and that I should dismiss it outright.

Similarly, when I write down my thoughts on the universe, and then check when I'm sober, I find without exception that it is patent nonsense and pointless to pursue these ideas any further.

So, I suppose that for me tripping has no inherent purpose or meaning beyond pure recreation: It's fun, it can be outright euphoric, depending on the substance (euphoric in the visceral way that drugs like opiates/amphetamines/benzos are, or euphoric in the visceral way that being petted by your lover is, physical/sensory euphoria) esp with MDMA/MDA, ketamine etc. It's a way to pass some time. But I don't treat it as being spiritual, enlightening, productive or anything of that of sort.

Personally, some of the most revealing, enlightening and powerful experiences I have had is when I realise during the experience that the thoughts I am having are patent nonsense.

To give an example of many years ago, whilst on ketamine (plus possibly 2C-something as well), I was convinced that I was moving through a multi-faceted, multi dimensional maze, and I was pursuing contact with other entities, calling out to them, and hearing there garbled, whispered responses. I plunged on, desperate to find this secret place where communication was possible with these mysterious "others". When I finally reached the centre of the maze, I came to the entity - and realised that it was me, that my mind had splintered and was mistaking parts of itself for another. The realisation hit me like a thunderbolt, and I laughed and laughed, as I slowly came back to normal.

It wasn't spiritual, but it did teach me a lot about the drug, and how my mind works.

 

[rangrz]

^

True that actually. Perhaps I have learned a lot about the tricks your mind can play on you, and also learned that a lot of the stuff people who trip a lot say is truly just nonsense and that I'm not missing anything.

 

[specialspack]

I've stopped bothering with drugs that make you think too deeply because, 90% of the time, it was just bullshit.

NMDA antagonists on the other hand I truly appreciate because while they have the potential to make my thoughts go "trippy", the cold, analytical, philosophical (I mean this in the academic, not "hippy" sense) side of me remains entirely intact. So to answer your post, I reality-check during a trip, and if the substance I'm taking I know before-hand will deprive me of rationality, then I automatically just take said substance for the ride, and don't read too deeply into it.
"Consciousness expansion" is, in the majority of cases, DSM-IV category delusional thinking.

Really..? I find quite the opposite. NMDA antagonists produce a great deal more delusional thinking - hence their popularity as a model for psychosis...

^

True that actually. Perhaps I have learned a lot about the tricks your mind can play on you, and also learned that a lot of the stuff people who trip a lot say is truly just nonsense and that I'm not missing anything.

i guess from your posts on this thread that you have quite a scientific/materialist attitude to psychedelics. Me also - there is no logical reason to think that psychedelic experiences are any more likely to tell you the truth or to just lie to you outright. And Occam's razor suggests no multiplying explanatory entities.

But they can teach you a lot about yourself. The period of reflection, where you can contemplate your fears, your weaknesses and gain some realisations is very powerful. Most of those insights - "so that's why I behave like that, couldn't I think about that in a different way" etc seem even clearer in the light of day. The metaphysical stuff about how the universe functions, the "secret knowledge", the machine elves - are all really the sideshow to put your brain into a self critical state. Because of this, I much prefer very long duration psychedelics - DOx, for example. They say ibogaine is the the ultimate forced-self examination drug. One that I would be a little scared of trying!

 

[Rorthron]

Similarly, when I write down my thoughts on the universe, and then check when I'm sober, I find without exception that it is patent nonsense and pointless to pursue these ideas any further.

Actually the opposite happens to me. I keep notebooks and paper around me every time I trip. Almost every time (except when I "hole") I write a lot. And every time, my writings have kept me in total wonder at how deep the mind goes when tripping. Some of the most deep and transformative insights I had in my life came from tripping and I wrote them mostly at a +++ state. And in the end these were double and triple checked with reality.

It's interesting to see that not everyone is able to take so much value from a psychedelic experience.

 

[kidklmx]

Actually the opposite happens to me. I keep notebooks and paper around me every time I trip. Almost every time (except when I "hole") I write a lot. And every time, my writings have kept me in total wonder at how deep the mind goes when tripping. Some of the most deep and transformative insights I had in my life came from tripping and I wrote them mostly at a +++ state. And in the end these were double and triple checked with reality.

It's interesting to see that not everyone is able to take so much value from a psychedelic experience.

When these thoughts are introspective and about my psychology they are just that. Once I start pondering about the universe, it's almost always utter garbage. Or rather, they could not be garbage, but my thoughts never end up in the place where I want them to. At the time it's like the deepest shit ever and I feel like I'm Terrence McKenna.

 

[Rorthron]

When these thoughts are introspective and about my psychology they are just that. Once I start pondering about the universe, it's almost always utter garbage. Or rather, they could not be garbage, but my thoughts never end up in the place where I want them to. At the time it's like the deepest shit ever and I feel like I'm Terrence McKenna.

This is a typical "YMMV" case. To each his own results. It all depends on how deep you can go, really. And I'm definitely NOT talking about TM type of realizations.

EDIT: Not only how deep you can go, but, most importantly, how much do you actually let the experience transform you so that you can actually understand what really happened. And this process happens, 99% of the time, after the experience.

 

[rangrz]

Give me an example of an idea about the universe you had while tripping that corresponded to empirical reality. Bonus points if it's non-trivial.

 

[Obsidius]

Give me an example of an idea about the universe you had while tripping that corresponded to empirical reality. Bonus points if it's non-trivial.

was reading a lot about the principle of entropy by ludwig boltzmann and also about his view of "statistical mechanics". basically he describes even chemistry as a mechanical process with statistical properties. once on a trip i combined that with hawkings theory of the big bang then universe expansion, then contraction to finally collapsing in a superblackhole and then forking a new big bang ect. now that already seems like a sinewave pattern to me and it got me thinking that and assuming that time is endless and there is actually endless universe cycles lined up after another. once time is endless, the possibility of a event unfolding will always be 100%.
now for the tricky part. imagine for a moment that there is an infinite cycling of universes, means the possibility that you evolve to what you are now (or beyond) in one of those again or different is 100%. it also means, that in some universe i could be you, and you could be me . which leads to this "oneness" feeling, and the hippie way of saying "we are all one", because statistically and with that assumptions it is mathematically correct.

it also goes with the old greek saying "the soul is eternal", and it also goes well with the "fractal" nature of the universe. infinite is infinite, right? no matter how many dimensions you stack upon eachother.

this also gives a more rational perspective on reincarnation, because i never believed that it would actually happen here on earth within this "mankindtime". but now, that the earth will spawn infinitely, and even one sandcorn in the sahara lying different and everything else is the same is counted in, when you talk about infinity, that's how crazy infinity is. what i meant was, that "reincarnation" is a logical consequence within this infinite cycle of "all-ness". better not call it reincarnation, that denotes its gonna happen in this timeframe on this earth here.

also by thinking that way and adding the fractal nature to it, you can as well just assume that all universes exist parallel at the same time, but here the mindfuck gets out of hand.

 

[specialspack]

I don't really think that quite fits rangrz bill...

 

[Flickering]

I always find my tripping thoughts to be perfectly logical the next day. There are some far-out concepts that I tend to laugh at and think "Probably not," but even during the trip I'm only indulging those thoughts as speculation. Maybe I'm just not taking enough.