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moon rocks

What benefit is there to washing the MDMA? Are the impurities harmful? It won't increase the potency of the crystal so you will have to educate me here.

It depends what you mean by rocks Folley, cause my last picture has huge 'rocks' in it. If you're being weight your dealer is not going to hand you 7 wraps, or 14 wraps, and so on. Rocks doesn't mean it's 'the shit', but it doesn't mean it is shit either.

I didn't refute the myth?

Put the rocks in a baggy, and then into a plastic bag, like a Tesco's bag or something. Crush it with a book, crush it with a hammer, whatever floats your boat. Weigh it up for your dose and there you go,

Please make sure you test your MDMA first. Just because it's a rock doesn't mean it is uncut. I recently had a rather large rock of MDMA (7g) and although it did fuck me up it definitely tasted ever so slightly sweet, meaning a sugar cut in my opinion.

The look, taste or anything superficial is no way to test MDMA, get a test kit.
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I'm not sure how much clearer I can be on the subject to be honest mate.
 
Btw and when I say 'smoke' I mean hitting it with smoke in the vial or whatever to crystallize the liquid.....
 
StrutterGear said:
What benefit is there to washing the MDMA? Are the impurities harmful? It won't increase the potency of the crystal so you will have to educate me here.
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Yes, impurities are quite toxic and very bad for you to be taking.

and no, it WILL increase the potency, because you are washing away impurities and other organic cuts. If it's cut with another drug it won't wash that out, but if it's cut with sugar or flour or whatever it will get rid of that.



Not only that, but it will greatly increase the quality of the high as well.... all those impurities simply add side effects, while adding nothing to the roll.



again I have no problem with what you said, so I don't know why you're pressing that. I used your picture as a reference only, as it's is extremely obvious in that first picture that the large chunk is just a bunch of smaller rocks that were fused together. I'm not trying to refute anything you said, only add on to it as personally I believe you didn't explain the myth behind "Moon Rocks" and why that term is completely useless


4evrLkn said:
Btw and when I say 'smoke' I mean hitting it with smoke in the vial or whatever to crystallize the liquid.....
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It almost sounds like your talking about the HCL gassing technique I explained that makes the smaller crystals... but that wouldn't make any sense coming from a user and not a chemist...

Do your friends do this or something? I'm interested in what this "smoke" is...
 
Folley said:
Yes, impurities are quite toxic and very bad for you to be taking.

and no, it WILL increase the potency, because you are washing away impurities and other organic cuts. If it's cut with another drug it won't wash that out, but if it's cut with sugar or flour or whatever it will get rid of that.



Not only that, but it will greatly increase the quality of the high as well.... all those impurities simply add side effects, while adding nothing to the roll.



again I have no problem with what you said, so I don't know why you're pressing that. I used your picture as a reference only, as it's is extremely obvious in that first picture that the large chunk is just a bunch of smaller rocks that were fused together. I'm not trying to refute anything you said, only add on to it as personally I believe you didn't explain the myth behind "Moon Rocks" and why that term is completely useless
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I'm not trying to get into an argument but have you got any evidence of that? If they were that toxic I'd expect to find clear crystals more often. Again I will bow to your superior knowledge in regard to this but would like some proof for my own benefit.

I am pressing that because it was obvious from my post I was saying "just because its a rock doesn't mean it's the shit" with the EXACT words

Just because it's a rock doesn't mean it is uncut
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I didn't SPECULATE on the 'myth' because there are varying degrees of "rocks" as shown by my 3 pictures, a rock doesn't mean it is better or WORSE.

That is my point. You're crusade against the phrase is making you argue over literally nothing. How did you want me to answer?
 
Quote Originally Posted by futura2012 View Post
If you like I can post some pics of what big MDMA crystals should look like. They are rare to see as a commercial product.

Please do ?
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I posted in the MDMA labs thread crystal pics.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...rom-Posters-to-make-you-stop-taking-E)/page10



P3030863.jpg


^^ As mentioned by kind buds the rock on the left looks like proper crystal vs the moon rocks on the right. Interesting to hear the crystals on the left gave the best buzz.

imag0502r.jpg


^^ This shot looks really interesting with the colour. This could be the new MDMA precursor from China Transformer was talking about that produces weird colours of MDMA.

20121114184546.jpg


^^ This looks like classic fused rocks. Nice looking however :)

To make "Moon Rocks" or crystals of that size, you need to take smaller crystals, heat them up and press them together. They fuse together and create a larger crystal... now, the only reason to do this is to add a cut to the drug like MSM, which you can heat up with the MDMA and it will actually fuse together in the same crystal.
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You can make large MDMA crystals but they arent the large crystal shards as one might expect more like a rocky cliff face. In terms of clan labs I dont think they bother making large crystal clusters its more a technique exclusive to individual labs that are more experimenting than making comercial product. The ones I have seen (like in the link) have more of a glass / clear kind of look to them than the "glued" stuff. The other thought is if you have a load of rocky shaped hard crystals then not ideal for export cause of all the air gaps hence the requirement to heat stuff up and make fused bricks.

Your crystals look pretty damn dirty, I wouldn't take that before washing off all those impurities. MDMA should be white, not fucking brown lol
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Some people prefer brown and feel it gives a better buzz. That Aussie Superlab on page 1 of the MDMA labs thread was producing brown powder and had by far the best equipment we have seen so far. I think one of the main issues with Clan labs is time hence why they dont bother with the final cleaning process. The other argument is it only takes a very small amount of impurity to make an inherintly white crystal a certain colour hence why so many labs dont bother.

I think there is a difference between dark sticky brown vs a light brown tinge. Which type gives the better buzz is a debate. At the end of it all does the average lab particularly care? probably not as long as it gives a good buzz. Once pressed in a blue or purple pill the crystal colour becomes an irrelevance.

but EVERYONE has access to Isopropyl alcohol which can be used to clean dirty brown MDMA into a much higher quality version.
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Isopropyl alcohol is an interesteng cleaner. Apparently it can get other types of cut as opposed to acetone. I am planning on adding an isopropyl alcohol clean to the acetone cleaning thread.


In summary the impression I get is if its crystal and light brown its much more likely to sell than something that is powder and white. Faced with this observation if you were a clan lab would you bother cleaning and filtering product to crystaline white? Probably not. Brown is okay hence why 9/10 we get brown.
 
Isopropyl alcohol will cause a loss of some of the actual MDMA, even if it anhydrous, so I would use it very sparingly if doing a wash with it.
 
Strutter, for the last time most of what I wrote was NOT in response to you. I'm not saying anything you said was wrong, I was adding on to it. I'm sorry if I came across as bashful, I often unintentionally do so when trying to make points that conflict with others.





Futura:

In summary the impression I get is if its crystal and light brown its much more likely to sell than something that is powder and white. Faced with this observation if you were a clan lab would you bother cleaning and filtering product to crystaline white? Probably not. Brown is okay hence why 9/10 we get brown.
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Exactly, but from a scientific standpoint this is wrong and a pure crystal should be white and odorless.



This is from a synthesis guide, so I cannot link to it. It is easily found on google however.


Note by The Chemist: Even if your product looks pure and snow-white to you, please do yourself and your friends a favor and recrystallize the product. A lot of unhealthy byproducts are white/colorless just like pure MDMA, so visual inspection cannot be used to verify purity (you can only verify the presence of colored impurities). Pure MDMA·HCl is odorless, so using your nose is a better way to gauge purity.
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It's not concrete or even very accurate evidence, but it's what I could find real fast that says MDMA should be white and odorless.


Futura:

^^ As mentioned by kind buds the rock on the left looks like proper crystal vs the moon rocks on the right. Interesting to hear the crystals on the left gave the best buzz.
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From that picture, the ones on the left would seem the best to me... an amber tinge is OK but you don't want brown MDMA


Futura:

I think there is a difference between dark sticky brown vs a light brown tinge
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Indeed, science tells us that a dark sticky product is a very crude, unwashed and unclean product. MDMA doesn't look like that.. safrole and other impurities do however.


Strutter:

I'm not trying to get into an argument but have you got any evidence of that? If they were that toxic I'd expect to find clear crystals more often. Again I will bow to your superior knowledge in regard to this but would like some proof for my own benefit.
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Asking me for a source won't start an argument lol, it's called good debating ;)

From wiki:

Safrole is regarded by the U.S. government to be a weak carcinogen in rats,[4] and considered by the European Commission on Health and consumer protection to be genotoxic and carcinogenic.[5]
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scureto1 said:
Isopropyl alcohol will cause a loss of some of the actual MDMA, even if it anhydrous, so I would use it very sparingly if doing a wash with it.
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I was not aware, thank you. That's just what came into my head, I guess acetone would be better but I have not done the process myself.
 
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I am not sure if you are being sarcastic with these question strutter as I am sure you know the answers but here they are anyway :)

What benefit is there to washing the MDMA? Are the impurities harmful?
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If your cleaning up pills with Acetone in most cases you remove filler, dye, binder + quite a few adulterants if they are there.

In the case of MDMA crystal some impurities can be harmful (although likely to be low in quantity vs the MDMA so you could argue in the quantity of an impurity unlikely to be significantly harmful)

If you can be bothered from a health perspective its a good thing in reality 99.9% of people dont bother.

Some chemists claim the brown MDMA has a better buzz than the white stuff.

It won't increase the potency of the crystal so you will have to educate me here.
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If you clear out impurities then you do increase purity / potency

From that picture, the ones on the left would seem the best to me... an amber tinge is OK but you don't want brown MDMA
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I guess how brown is brown :D Amber tinge is better as its more specific.

White I suppose is ideal but unfortunately it lends itself to cuts so is in a way an undesired colour for the clan chemist.
 
futura2012 said:
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic with these question strutter as I am sure you know the answers but here they are anyway :)



If your cleaning up pills with Acetone in most cases you remove filler, dye, binder + quite a few adulterants if they are there.

In the case of MDMA crystal some impurities can be harmful (although likely to be low in quantity vs the MDMA so you could argue in the quantity of an impurity unlikely to be significantly harmful)

If you can be bothered from a health perspective its a good thing in reality 99.9% of people dont bother.

Some chemists claim the brown MDMA has a better buzz than the white stuff.



If you clear out impurities then you do increase purity / potency



I guess how brown is brown :D Amber tinge is better as its more specific.

White I suppose is ideal but unfortunately it lends itself to cuts so is in a way an undesired colour for the clan chemist.
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No it was a genuine question, I have only ever bought a handful of pills in my lifetime because I only buy crystal so I wanted to know the benefits of doing so.

The amounts involved impurity wise are so miniscule as I thought.

With regard to the potency I know what I mean but it's not what you or Folley is saying to be honest, obviously mg for mg is more potent because the tenth of a mg binder or whatever will mean more dose is actual MD. Is there THAT much of a difference to bother? How many mg are we talking in a 150mg dose?
 
I guess it depends on how pure your MDMA is...

This is all going to be me speculating, but I'm pretty sure my numbers are going to be fairly accurate.


The best of the best MDMA on the market it probably like 95% pure MDMA (HCL, leave that 84% shiet out of it) and pharm grade MDMA is probably 98-99%

I'd say most of the MDMA on the market is probably 80-90% pure, very good for a clandestine drug but there are still noticeable impurities

The browner stuff like this is probably 75%, with the lowest quality getting to like 70% or even lower
http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=2044



and then the absolute WORST quality, the shit that the chemists stop making half way through the process just so they can call it MDMA... that shit could easily be 60% pure, with the absolute gunk being maybe even as low as 30%...

stuff like this:
http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=2685

That's got to be mostly impurities. 182mg in the capsule for one dose, it's still probably only 100mg of MDA.




But say your gear is 80% pure, not too bad but probably not that uncommon, that 150mg dose turns into 120mg. Quite significant if you ask me, not to mentions that's 30mg of neurotoxins you're taking along side your dose



at 85% purity (which is what almost all Dutch MDMA.HCL tests at, it seems to be the standard in Europe especially in the large commercial crystals) you still only get a 128mg dose.. a 120mg dose turns into 102mg and suddenly you're barely rolling when you should be blowing up
 
^ That crystal on the left doesn't really seem to have any tint at all, looks very high quality actually. It's the stuff in the middle and on the right that look like they are more impure


When you crystallize a drug from a solution you need to do it spread out on a flat surface though afaik, the solvent needs to be able to evaporate off.
 
The last couple years of Dead tour, there was shit going around that was pure whitish, clearish sparkly, looked like what people call "fishscale coke"....the term "molly" didn't exist then....People just called it "sassafras"...It smelled very strongly of licorice! Best shit I ever did! A light breeze felt like an orgasm! About six months after that, this shit went around that people said was "sassafras", but it was clearly the same shit cut down....I've personally never had anything as good since, not that it's not out there...

The term moonrocks, 5 or six years ago used to refer to crystallized ketamine coming from Mexico...Some people I know still call this "Moon rocks"...Using the term "Moonrocks" for rocked up MDA,Mdma, etc etc is kind of a recent phenomena here in the US....

Not to sound like the old guy saying, "In my day shit was different!"...Things change, and I only know what I've seen...I will say, years ago there wasn't nearly as much of this shit around and it was a pretty rare and underground thing...the early 00's is went ecstasy went mainstream and ceased to be an exclusively rave/club/gay drug like it was for awhile before that....

Of course, just cu shit looks like a crystal doesn't necessarily speak to it's quality/purity, this goes for any drug...
 
Is there THAT much of a difference to bother? How many mg are we talking in a 150mg dose?
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All answers to this are kind of speculation but I will try :)

Assuming a street sample comes in on Ecstasy Data (one from streetworx so we can see the mg )

Lets take this as a recent example:

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=2689

154.6mG MDMA

The question here is whats the GC/MS actually measuring?

Is that 154.6mG of impure MDMA (ie including impurities)? or is it measuring only 154.6mG of MDMA ignoring all impurities?

As there are so many unanswered questions in this alone its impossible to predict using GC/MS what cleaning MDMA might do with Acetone etc. I guess the only way you could do it is take two readings one GC/MS before and then one after. Hopefully the impuritie spikes from reading one you could work out percentages and then from reading two work out how much MDMA minus impurities was left.

As your gut feeling is probably telling you then I suspect in terms of purity it would make some difference but I doubt it would be that significant.

Another thing that springs to mind is you could weigh product before and after but even then some actual MDMA might be lost through the cleaning process so again the readings might be off.

In reality once you start really looking into the purity of MDMA its ni on impossible to figure out. In a sense its a case of does it give me a buzz YES / NO if it tests good and you get a buzz + or - 25% accuracy I doubt anyone ever realises :)

100% pure MDMA crystals wouldnt necessarily always be very small, would they? Wouldnt it depend on the size of the container you were crystallizing it in as well as the concentration of MDMA in the liquid solution? If you had a small enough vessel and a high enough concentration of MDMA in the solution, I would imagine you could make a sheet of crystal as thick as you wanted and then you would just have to break it up to sell...
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To get the MDMA crystals to form quickly in most cases the solution containing the MDMA is usually gassed

hcl_gassing_mdma_meth_lab.jpg


^^ Small MDMA Gassing Rig

this tends to produce small salt type crystals. But.. you are correct crystals can be formed using many other techniques and larger ones using a different method is possible. The other issus to consider is (according to some of my sources) because MDMA is Racemic the large shards you see like with meth are not possible with a Racemic compound. this is why the larger MDMA crystals look very rough and rocky not clear shards like with the METH.

every single person that tried that batch uses it as "10" when they ask me to rate quality of current batches (out of 10).
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Looks like you stumbled across something that came from a smaller lab where the manufacturer was likely a chemist who actually put some extra effort in :)
 
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Mailmonkey said:
Very nice, so they are made of lots of small crystals that have later been fused together? As I understand from this thread. :)

PS I advise a 3 month break.
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Those are very pretty^

What concerns me in that 7 plus gram one! Using the standard HR equation that we use
here BL, you might end up having to take a 210 month break!
 
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