☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy Storage Thread

[kinavaras]

I have 25c-nbome in h20 for 1 month, it was stored in eyedropper and 2 bags under my wardrobe, when i tryed it for the first time i got full efects, but like 3 weeks later i tryed and i get only poor effects, so my question is, are RC so sensitive, and go off so quick, or degradation was caused by inapropriate storage?

 

[kinavaras]

No, it was under my wardrobe for 3 weeks, i never take it outside Bdw: it was ordered from legit vendor

 

[kinavaras]

tap water

 

[phatass]

...

 

[phatass]

......

 

[tired of crap]

So I have some small eppendorf tubes, they are 1.5 ml (about the same size as the ones in the middle of the picture here > http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:Eppendorf_tubes.jpg). They are air tight and inert (as far as my friend says anyways) and they are near perfect for holding the various goodies that I have in my stash (mostly phens but some trypt's too).

My plan is to put these tubes into a mason jar that is filled with rice and then into the freezer..

However, my concern is that some of the tubes arent filled to the top with goodies.

So two part question
1 - What do you think of the mason jar, rice, freezer idea and
2 - How much of a concern is it that the tubes are filled right to the rim

Thanks for the replies,

Tired

 

[DoctorShop]

Would it be okay to put 25c nbome and lsd that are in baggies, wrapped in paper in envelopes in the fridge? Would this keep them from degrading too much for a couple of months?

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

^Yeah that should work fine, you could stick a desiccant in there too if you'd like.

 

[DoctorShop]

^ Thanks for reply. I will do that.

 

[psood0nym]

So two part question
1 - What do you think of the mason jar, rice, freezer idea and
2 - How much of a concern is it that the tubes are filled right to the rim

1. I think you're probably going to have a lot of spilled rice. Sealed glass should be sufficient alone IMO, even outside of the freezer without any kind of dessicants or oxygen absorbers (though it's easy to get those from shoe boxes or beef jerky bags if you're worried.) Even though having a bunch of moisture absorbing rice around your vials and keeping them freezer cold may seem like a good idea so far as storage is concerned purely in theory, in my opinion the logistics of dealing with those extra measures in practice invites more risk than they're worth -- and they're worth close to nothing.

The rice is just going to make it more difficult to find what you're looking for in the jar, and then there's scenarios like spilling a bunch of rice and trying to catch it as the jar fumbles loose and smashes to the floor. The problem with the freezer is that when you take the vials out in humid air water will condense on their surface, and if you or someone else forgets about this and opens a vial before it warms that condensation gets on the inside glass in contact with your compounds. If you can maintain room temperature that's good enough I think. The more complicated the storage measures the more opportunities there will be for a much larger threat: human error. Then there's the fact that the wrong sort of people might stumble across your little vial collection looking for frozen pizza rolls, a concern that may be relevant if you consider having your drugs kept in police evidence lockers or the stomachs of fiendy reprobates poor storage environments.

2. Very little concern as the amount of oxygen in something like a 5 dram vial isn't going to be sufficient to noticeably degrade any psyches no matter how much space is left empty -- especially not phens, which are usually pretty stable.

I don't have any quantitative data to back up my implicit suggestion above that storing in small dark vials at room temperatures is all that really matters so far as any difference you'll ever genuinely perceive in potency due to degradation is concerned, but to put things in perspective consider the storage conditions of an apparently fully active vial of unopened Delysid from the 1950s used to get 21st century users to trip as described in this Erowid article:

Storage & Degradation
Although the vial was completely sealed, without cracks, one of the major questions was whether there would be significant loss of potency by degradation as a result of the 55 years that had passed since it was manufactured. After trying it, the predominant opinion among the more than 70 participants and observers was that there was no detectable loss in potency. This was the clearest result from the reported experiment: air-tight brown glass appears to be a very effective long-term storage method for LSD. After 55 years, stored at varying room temperatures, the LSD seemed to be fully potent.

And that's with LSD, one of the most fragile psychedelics out there...

 

[tired of crap]

psood0nym, let it be known that I understand your concerns and I appreciate your comments, though it is too late

I also did some research before making my decision and have only decide to store my tryps ( 4-X) and L in the rice jar in the freezer, in tubes. As even shulgin says (in PIhKAL that phens are very stable) and I also read the article on erowid in regards to L, but I figured why not? L is hard for me to come by and is expensive when I see it...

To date I have yet to spill any significant amount of rice ( a grain here or there though). Also, there is no need to worry about anyone finding it while looking for frozen pizza haha, I have no friends haha (though this was also a concern of mine).

Let it be noted that I let the entire jar come to room temp before opening, I then let it sit for 10 min after opening. And then hold the individual tubes briefly to warm them up before opening.

So yes, it may be over kill, but it makes me feel better about my investments

 

[Achten]

To the people questioning about tryptamines:

I have mine in the fridge in a ziplock bag in a black plastic container for over 1.5years and I notice no loss of potency. Even with aMT.

 

[psood0nym]

psood0nym, let it be known that I understand your concerns and I appreciate your comments, though it is too late

I also did some research before making my decision and have only decide to store my tryps ( 4-X) and L in the rice jar in the freezer, in tubes. As even shulgin says (in PIhKAL that phens are very stable) and I also read the article on erowid in regards to L, but I figured why not? L is hard for me to come by and is expensive when I see it...

To date I have yet to spill any significant amount of rice ( a grain here or there though). Also, there is no need to worry about anyone finding it while looking for frozen pizza haha, I have no friends haha (though this was also a concern of mine).

Let it be noted that I let the entire jar come to room temp before opening, I then let it sit for 10 min after opening. And then hold the individual tubes briefly to warm them up before opening.

So yes, it may be over kill, but it makes me feel better about my investments

Well far be it from me to deprive you of your self-assuring little ritual, heh, but what's been said is still relevant for anyone else who reads it, and may still be for you too should you go searching for those frozen drugs while you're tripping face and forget or forgo the steps you're so sure you'll remember to take.

To the people questioning about tryptamines:

I have mine in the fridge in a ziplock bag in a black plastic container for over 1.5years and I notice no loss of potency. Even with aMT.

The refrigerator is probably helping to keep the bags from degrading. Plastic bags are fine for a short while, but eventually they will begin to biodegrade and absorb any tryptamines in contact with them into themselves leaving you not knowing how to deal with the dry pitted mess of oxidized tryptamine glazed plastic that's left. I've had that happen with "travel baggies" that got set aside and forgotten.

 

[Achten]

Amber vials ordered !

A question about MDAI. Should it outlast us, as MDMA ? Or is the amino-indane group more prone to degradation ?

 

[Achten]

I received my glass vials. No amber alas, but I imagine in the freezer it's dark anyway so it can't hurt a lot.

I'm still in the dark about the MDAI, as my above post shows.

Some new questions:
- About LSD: I had to fold the tabs to make them fit in the vial. Is it possible that there is some exchange of LsD between them ? As in, some getting weaker and others stronger because they absorb active ingredient from the other tab ? Same questions for 5MEOAMT tabs.
- Should the MDMA I have outlive me if I keep it in the fridge in a few ziplock bags ? Or should I put it in vials as well ? I don't think so but better safe than sorry ?
- How about 2C-D, 2C-P, 2C-E, 2C-T4 in ziplock bags ? And what about blotters with DOI, 25CNBOME and 25DNBOME ?
- I put all my tryptamines in glass vials in the freezer. Now if I want to use one, how should I proceed ? After skim-reading this thread I figure something like:

Get it out of freezer, in fridge for 30minutes. Then take the glass vial out of the fridge, 15minutes in room temperature ? Then handle and put back in the freezer as fast as possible ?

Any help please ?

edit: Would my regular aMT keep a good time in the freezer ? I figure I keep 250mg for when I'm retired (+40years from now) as a retirement antidepressant

edit: seriously, no one .. ? Another question: my vials are only 1/5th full. They are 1.75ml vials with most of them containing 125mg of product. Is the oxygen in the vials damaging the product ? Would it be better to fill them up completely ?

 

[PepperSocks]

Plastic bags are fine for a short while, but eventually they will begin to biodegrade and absorb any tryptamines in contact with them into themselves leaving you not knowing how to deal with the dry pitted mess of oxidized tryptamine glazed plastic that's left. I've had that happen with "travel baggies" that got set aside and forgotten.

That is so true, and something I completely overlooked. I've seen old, brittle plastic bags, and neglected to make the connection to the ones holding my compounds. I'm going to have to get some glass. Some of those chems have been in the original bag for 5+ years now.

I read that story about the sealed Delysid, but I wonder. Even though it was sealed brown glass at room temperature, was it in any way evacuated (vacuum) or under inert atmosphere (nitrogen or argon), or was it just plainly sealed with room air?

I keep my things in a dessicated (lots of oven dried epsom salts in the bottom of the) big, white HDPE pill bottle, protected from light sources. I used to keep it in the freezer, and did the whole 'warm for a few hours before opening' thing, but for the last couple years I've just kept the jar at room temp.

The only one I can visibly see any degradation at all is my aMT freebase. It's in a plastic bag, but unlike the others I wrapped the bag in aluminum foil. It used to be printer paper white, and now it's off-white (after about 4 years), slowly going in the direction of browning. So I need to take another measure to ensure its survival.

The one I'm most concerned with is the LSD. I can't visibly see degradation because it's on blotter paper. The blotter paper is wrapped in aluminum foil and the foil is in a plastic bag, in the dessicated pill bottle at room temperature. The environment is dry, but I wonder about the effects of oxygen.

The thing with LSD is that the only way of knowing my dose is through a 'somewhat reliable' information channel that they were initially laid at 100ug per 1/4"^2. Having an underdose and trying to guess the current content would be a pain.

Like many others, LSD is one of those things where my stock is all I have and can't get more, so I have to preserve what I have and maintain dosing info. I wish I was in NL; give a lab a tab and get a number in return.

 

[psood0nym]

^From another recent and relevant thread I've responded to:

Plastic bags are permeable to oxygen whereas glass is not, plus plastic biodegrades after a few years. That's the difference between bags and glass vials. It's not big short term, it is long term.

Regarding the amount of air in the vials: assuming it is oxygen that is the major culprit in degradation, and that 21% of air is oxygen, think of the weight of the amount of air in your vial compared to the weight of your compound (a very tiny fraction). That fractional amount is what will be reacting with your compound. I'm no chemistry expert, but I don't think it likely that oxygen can just bounce around freely breaking up things at a molecular level forever. Every time you open the vial more is let in, it's true. But the comparative mass of that oxygen is so tiny that I don't think -- for all practical consideration -- that any degradation that occurs is ever going to be consequential in a way that is subjectively noticeable during a trip. If somebody can cite evidence that refutes this intuition so far as it concerns practical usage within, IDK, 1 to 15 years (and me thinking it through with limited knowledge is all this assessment amounts to), please do.

Your compounds might stick to glass during long term storage, but at least they won't be absorbed into their container as is the case with plastic. Vial up. It's cheap to buy them, you just have to commit the time to making the transfer to glass. I also worry about LSD on blotters for long term storage. The molecule is encased in degrading organic matter (paper), and there's no easy way to separate it from that. The only convenient thing I can think to do is to put the blotters in a sealed glass vial or test tube and hope that's enough to preserve it. I'm not going to try and screw around with noble gas infusions because, practically speaking, I don't think it's plausible that they'll make a noticeable difference in preservation for my purposes.

 

[Achten]

For reference purposes and general discussion, here is how I store my stuff now, after reading this thread:

Phenethylamines:

- Compound in glass vial
- Vial wrapped in alu foil
- Foil put in a see-through plastic container, filled half with rice.
- Wrapped plastic container in alu foil
- In fridge

Tryptamines:

- Compound in glass vial.
- Glass vial wrapped in alu foil
- Alu foil wrap put in black plastic ziplock bag, filled half with rice.
- in black plastic container (with security lock ), filled half with rice.
- In freezer

I'm fucked if I want to use anything :D

I don't see any problems with this method ? Anyone want to add something ?

I have a pretty large collection so the plan is definetly keeping them for years and years.
I hope some aMT and 4HOMET will keep until I'm +50 (25 years from now). Also some 5MeOMiPT for when erectile disfunction sets in.

I'm guessing MDMA and other phenethylamines will keep that long in the frigde anyway, without putting them in the freezer.

Now, if I want to use anything, take it out of the freezer, remove from black ziplock bag, remove alu foil around vial. Let vial sit at room temp for an hour.
Then open it ? Weigh and put it back as fast as possible ? In alu foil, in black ziplock bag and right back in the freezer ?

edit: some older (white and shiny) MDAI: in glass vial in plastic container fridge for use in next year(s)
some new (dark brown) MDAI: in glass vial in alu foil in black ziplock bag in container in freezer. For long time storage.

No one knows something about the amino-indanes in particular ?

 

[PepperSocks]

The molecule is encased in degrading organic matter (paper)

That's actually my main concern. Moisture is taken care of, negligible contact with free oxygen, but it is very much in contact with degrading paper and ink.
LSD is 'fragile' when we compare it to other psychedelics but when you think about it; as an isolated compound in a sealed vial in a dark place it undergoes negligible degradation. It makes it into our moist bodies, exposed to a gauntlet of acid/base/ROS/enzymatic processes, and it still manages to stick around to do it's thing in a very specific place.

The colour of the white sections on some of my older hits is turning off-white/yellow. It looks like cellulose/ink degradation. Does anyone with knowledge of cellulose/paper ingredients/ink structures forsee byproducts that would be detrimental to LSD?

I don't mind an ugly looking, ragged, degraded piece of paper as long as it still contains LSD.

Would a good long term blotter storage plan be to keep it submerged in a vial of mineral oil (in the dark)? I'm assuming LSD would not migrate to solution in the oil; it's in salt form and already encased in a medium with more polar tendencies than mineral oil would have.

 

[tekkeN]

Thinking of ordering some of these

You can vacuum all the air out of them like people do with wine, from this website