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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

From Sky News - "MPs Reveal Plans To Reform Drug Laws"

SHM accurately describes the essence of the 'special relationship'. Only when the US relaxes federal drug laws will anything change in this client state. Rather raises the question of the point of the committee exercise but there you go. Best summarised in the immortal words of Edward G, 'big joke'.
 
Ceres said:
^ this is why it would be necessary to pre-empt consequences like that and take additional measures like I mentioned to put increased, focused, pressure on sectors of the black market which are the most harmful and detrimental to individuals and communities.



Really it shouldn't be trivial for young people to gain their first access to drugs, illegaly or legally, they ought to realise the gravity of making a decision like that and the impact it could have on them if they are reckless about it.

One other point, measures can also be taken at the other end of the blackmarket supply chain, such as incentivising coca and poppy growers to switch to supplying the government sanctioned side of the market instead of the criminal side.
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I tend to think that harmful drug use is a by-product of fucked up society. If we accept that drugs are part of people's lives and develop safe "traditions" or settings for taking them then people are more likely to use them in safe contexts.

If I had something meaningful to do then I know I'd spend less time taking drugs. But it's actually quite hard to find something meaningful to do in our society because everything's commercialised and bureaucratised. For instance, I can't get involved in certain parts of the voluntary-sector, because I was nicked for drug possession. So instead of helping people I sit in my room and get fucked. Or something like that, I would say something more coherent but I have to be somewhere in 30 minutes.
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
From the comments on the Daily Mail website on this story



Now, ignoring the fact that Dubai isn't actually a country, isn't it heart-warming to see the British public gaining a greater understanding of fundamentalist Islamic culture?
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They also imprison you for being in debt, or force manual work on you. Most of dubai was built on slave labour.
 
The point should be that criminalisation makes drugs far more harmful than they otherwise would be. But, as Dave's response again illustrates, reason and evidence have no place in government thinking.
 
bluelight meet at the hosue of commons to lobby our mps on this issue.? lots of ideas and arguments

i'm not here coz i want to be i'm here because i've been asked to be some one on about same sex marriage. who'd be an mp?
 
charlie clean said:
The point should be that criminalisation makes drugs far more harmful than they otherwise would be. But, as Dave's response again illustrates, reason and evidence have no place in government thinking.
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I agree, look at the USA when they banned drinking, people were making their own at home & the whole trade went underground & into the hnds of the mafia.

The people in power will never make stuff legal, there are too many people that only know of "drugs" from the daily mail & think LSD makes you go mad & eat your neighbour in some bizarre mental drug melt down.

Just accept it that things will never change. I feel so sad the americans pushed through all these dumb laws starting with the Harrison Marijuana tax reform act & set the path for the rest of the world to follow by making drugs illegal.
 
farmaz said:
I agree, look at the USA when they banned drinking, people were making their own at home & the whole trade went underground & into the hnds of the mafia.

The people in power will never make stuff legal, there are too many people that only know of "drugs" from the daily mail & think LSD makes you go mad & eat your neighbour in some bizarre mental drug melt down.

Just accept it that things will never change. I feel so sad the americans pushed through all these dumb laws starting with the Harrison Marijuana tax reform act & set the path for the rest of the world to follow by making drugs illegal.
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This seems overly pessimistic. Look at the USA again, they banned drinking, but they made it legal again, and the recent marijuana legalisation at the state level is a direct counter-example to this viewpoint.

Change is clearly possible, it's just unlikely, slow to happen and always at risk of being overturned.
 
I mostlty agree with Knock. Accepting that things will never change is just plain stoooopid imo. Self-fulfilling prophecy. Not even the most optimistic legalisation idealists (like me) are quite deluded enough to think that the current discussions are actually gonna make much - if any - difference. But every time the debate comes round those that have realised that legalisation (although some will still be uncomfortable going beyond the idea of decriminalisation at first) is the only "solution" to the WoD voice their opinions just a lil bit louder. And they're more numerous year on year. Not to mention the growing number of concrete examples of how relaxing drug laws makes every issue concerning drug use improve. Facts is facts and said facts are really starting to speak to people who just a few years ago would never have considered any step towards relaxing drug laws even in private let alone stated so plainly in public. Baby steps but steps forward all the same.
 
*Conspiracy hat on*

Given that legal drugs would be worth pennies, anyone who shifts drugs would want them to stay illegal and make massive amounts of money, which usually go into banks. Look at HSBC...
 
Not a surprise, Mz Marmz. But also not much of a setback. There's no way on Earth the UK's drug laws are gonna be chaging significantly anytime very soon (as mentioned, the US pulls the strings for us on that issue :\) but the simple fact that "respectable" people are using the big bad "D" - and even "L" - words is very encouraging.

Problems - perceived and genuine - surrounding drug use not just in this country but worldwide ain't going anywhere and can only get worse as the laws currently stand. There's only so long prohibition can be propped up by empty "moral" arguments. People ain't as stupid as their governmoents would hope for. Change for the better is unavoidable sooner or later.
 
Shambles said:
There's no way on Earth the UK's drug laws are gonna be chaging significantly anytime very soon (as mentioned, the US pulls the strings for us on that issue :\) but the simple fact that "respectable" people are using the big bad "D" - and even "L" - words is very encouraging.
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I think this ("timescales") is a major cause of the diversity of expectations different people have. I suspect that the people who say "it'll never happen" are those who hope for change in the next decade or whatever, whereas the optimists might be thinking of the next 30 or 50 years. Suspect it's an age thing ;) 30 years doesn't seem quite so long when you can subtract it from your years on earth and have change.
 
I think change will come about sooner than most people think. Look at what's happening in America in Washington. Provided legalisation of marijuana is considered a success there, the UK will follow, and so will the legalisation of other drugs. It'll only take a few years to discern how successful Washington's legalisation has been, and Portugal will continue to show success with its legalisation all the while. The writing is on the wall.
 
Albion said:
I think change will come about sooner than most people think. Look at what's happening in America in Washington. Provided legalisation of marijuana is considered a success there, the UK will follow, and so will the legalisation of other drugs. It'll only take a few years to discern how successful Washington's legalisation has been, and Portugal will continue to show success with its legalisation all the while. The writing is on the wall.
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Talking of the US, check this out. Fox news did a 'test' to see how impaired stoned drivers would be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBC_8zSYjOs

Luckily one of the test subjects took a secret camera and filmed behind the scenes!
 
Agreed, Knock. I wouldn't put a specific timescale on it cos - as Albion mentioned - the times they are a-changing. And changing in places that count. The recent change in some US states' weed policy came as a pleasant surprise to me. Although with a few other states with several years of "medical marijuana" (aka decriminalisation-lite) without any apparent signs of skies falling in is hard to ignore. The current situation is simply untenable and will change. But yeah, will take a while. We've had a century or so of prohibition so it's deeply ingrained in the minds of many as being the only option. The demonstrable and utter failure of hardline approaches is plain to see to more or less everyone by now though. The deeply conservative folks out there may not like it but even they can see the writing on the wall. Prohibition is simply more trouble than its worth.
 
That pathetic ann widdecombe interview springs to mind "YOU'RE SAYING YOU WANT HEROIN SOLD IN CORNER SHOPS!?" "No..bu-" "HEROIN!?!"
 
What are you basing that harmlessness on, MM? Physical? Societal?
 
Albion said:
I think change will come about sooner than most people ethink. Look at what's happening in America in Washington. Provided legalisation of marijuana is considered a success there,.
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I'd keep watching if I were you. Don't think for a second it will be ALLOWED to be a success.
 
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