Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[Captain.Heroin]

messin with that shit again was a big mistake.

Well hey, at least you're back on Suboxone.

We all make mistakes from time to time, the important thing is you learn from them and move forward. %)

 

[cire113]

Its amazing how bad you forget active addiction is when you've been stabilized on sub for a while; it really is a completely different life.... Every time ive relapsed since taking Sub its usually been a short affair and like WTF this sucks i felt way better on Sub!

Jumping back and forth from sub to other opiates does take a toll on your brain though;

Gotta not take life for granted any more *knock on wood*


To the guy in Africa i really hope you can get the help you need.. I would even go for methadone if i was you.. anything but active addiction

 

[OEandricearoni]

Yeah it's pretty crazy. I maintained on suboxone and kratom for nearly 3 years, got my life back together, found a job, accumulated a decent amount of savings, ect, and all it took was a couple months of doing heroin again to fuck everything up....luckily i haven't been fired at work, i've been pretty flaky there lately, but luckily i'm a pretty valuable employee to them and in the past have been very reliable.

It would shock them if they were to find out that i was doing heroin, they have no idea.

Something i noticed is suboxone is a hell of a lot more expensive than when i was taking it before. I remember paying not very much for a months script, like less than 40$ like a year or so ago. I go in for a 2 week supply a couple days ago and its over 100$. I used my no copay card thing and it brought it down to 56$ but still, that's goddamn expensive. I don't even know if I'm going to be able to afford another script in a couple of weeks.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Something i noticed is suboxone is a hell of a lot more expensive than when i was taking it before. I remember paying not very much for a months script, like less than 40$ like a year or so ago. I go in for a 2 week supply a couple days ago and its over 100$. I used my no copay card thing and it brought it down to 56$ but still, that's goddamn expensive. I don't even know if I'm going to be able to afford another script in a couple of weeks.

^ my advice to you is to keep working hard as many hours as possible, and to taper down on Suboxone very quickly; it's very easy to taper quickly with Suboxone. This way you can get more out of each tablet when you've adjusted to the lower dosages of Suboxone, which helps keep the price of it down as a prescription will last you longer than it was originally.

I went from an 8mg tab a day (sublingual) to an 8mg tab per month (IM/IV) this way.

 

[OEandricearoni]

Yeah that's my plan. I've tapered down to .25mg sub in the past and i remember it being fairly easy. I took an entire 8 mg today, I'm only on day 3 though. I plan on taking 6 tommarow, then 4 the next day. I'll probably then take 4 for a few days and start taking 2. It's really easy to get down to 2mg in my experience. I plan on only paying for 1 more prescription then not going to see the dr. again. If i get a months supply of 8mg/day i can make that last pretty damn long, and easily switch to kratom when i run out, which is much cheaper.

I made the switch from suboxone to kratom once before, and it was quite painless. The kratom pretty much completely eliminated my withdrawal, i was on a very low dose of suboxone though, probably less than .25mg a day when i switched.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Yeah that's my plan. I've tapered down to .25mg sub in the past and i remember it being fairly easy. I took an entire 8 mg today, I'm only on day 3 though. I plan on taking 6 tommarow, then 4 the next day. I'll probably then take 4 for a few days and start taking 2. It's really easy to get down to 2mg in my experience. I plan on only paying for 1 more prescription then not going to see the dr. again. If i get a months supply of 8mg/day i can make that last pretty damn long, and easily switch to kratom when i run out, which is much cheaper.

I made the switch from suboxone to kratom once before, and it was quite painless. The kratom pretty much completely eliminated my withdrawal, i was on a very low dose of suboxone though, probably less than .25mg a day when i switched.

Best of luck!

The last time I upped my buprenorphine dosage, it was due to severe pain from 2 broken bones. So I'm still tapering too, and am kind of pissed at myself because I was SO CLOSE to getting off of buprenorphine all together. I'm now at 80mcg per dosage, and I was way below that the first time around. *sigh*

 

[adder]

adder...
Cut your 2mg pills in two, put half in a shotglass add 3 drops of Vodka (if their the small round pills) More drops if their bigger etc. Let bupe' dissolve - scrape the cotton of one end of a Q-tip with a serrated knife, drop cotton in & let it soak up the solution - drop it under your tongue and dont swallow that shit ! Let it soak through your membrane. The longer, the better

Thanks for the advice. I will definitely try that because my dose simply cannot be changed before Sunday. My card is no longer held at the clinic, it was passed to the giveaway point. And my psychiatrist said he can't prescribe me anything at the clinic because I'm no longer a patient of the clinic, being the participant of the programme, I am a patient at the giveaway point. He still seems understanding and told me yesterday with a calm voice: "Don't increase clonazepam, it's now important that we get you off it but it's going to take some time. 2mg of buprenorphine is little but you wanted to cut the dose so I did. We'll slowly increase the dose of Suboxone at the point without the need of going to the ward, and this should help problems you told me about". Well, I know these symptoms are coming from anxiety in 99%, I figured it out myself when I started practising self-hypnosis to ease my nerves, too low dose of Suboxone plays a secondary role. Also, this damned clonazepam tapering down is really uncomfortable at my current dose of Suboxone. I have taken Suboxone today and I was still sweating although I definitely felt when the dose kicked in. I took 2mg of clonazepam (my current dose) and sweating subsided. I know I could easily just stop taking Suboxone and there wouldn't be much of withdrawal from 2mg but it's all in my head.

(...) As far as taking it sublingually, the strips are better than the pills, but it still tastes practically exactly what the pill tasted like, unbearably awful, the only difference is it dissolves a bit faster, so you aren't tortured quite as long.

Either way, i hate taking suboxone sublingually because of that taste. I really can't stand it. So here i am with these strips that i don't want to put under my tongue. I don't want to IV them either, so what's left? Either plugging or figuring out a way to get this shit up my nose. (...)

I get Reckitt Benckiser (RB) Suboxone pills. As for the taste of them, they're lemony-bitter. I'm not really that sensitive to the taste of pills, it's worse than my clonazepam (it's minty, I crush the pill with my teeth and put it under my tongue, otherwise it doesn't work for anxiety), but there are far worse tastes like estazolam or alprazolam, pure pharmaceutical bitterness.

I wish we had these strips here but I don't think they're coming any time soon (read "I could be long after quitting the programme before they introduce them here"). Also, I read about another solution different from these film strips. A small strip is placed on the inner side of the cheek and it sticks to it, the absorption is much faster than both sublingual pills and sublingual film strips. I wonder how much time it's going to take before Big Pharma decides to introduce this solution for administering meds through membrane... Too costly for them when they have their own system, no matter how much better these narrow strips sticking to the cheek are.

I wouldn't snort Suboxone as it won't really make BA higher, actually it's a roulette, you might gain little but you may also lose a few %. Rectal administration is definitely better but I wonder if I would really get ~70% when I'm constantly constipated.

In my opinion the taste isn't so bad that I would turn to other ROA. If my dose is corrected, I'm more than fine with s.l. administration. I know how lucky I am I got on the Suboxone programme, it's more expensive for the country than methadone syrup so they have more limits on it than on methadone (politics everywhere...). I cursed my city many times because it's in Eastern Poland, salaries are low, no jobs available etc. But I am thankful to people who did something so Suboxone was introduced here in '06. And now I can collect my Suboxone without driving 170 km to Warsaw to get it and then 170 km back home. There are people here who really give a damn about addicts like me but they don't walk proudly and it's easy not to notice them and their hard work. These are people who deserve a monument for creating chances despite all the difficulties people above them make.

Its amazing how bad you forget active addiction is when you've been stabilized on sub for a while; it really is a completely different life.... Every time ive relapsed since taking Sub its usually been a short affair and like WTF this sucks i felt way better on Sub!

True! Now the only thing reminding me of my past are a few minutes when I have to collect Suboxone. But now I don't even feel the need for a full agonist with an intravenous rush. It got to me too that my life is way better on buprenorphine, it makes me feel more like me, a strange feeling I couldn't get used to at the beginning.

I can study, no stupid morphine or whatever limits me, I've got some motivation for work when I fight my depression, I've got motivation to taper off clonazepam, and I look forward to the future. Getting busy as much as possible is the best way to come back from that opioid addiction neverland. And Suboxone, on the contrary to methadone, doesn't slow me down and I don't feel I'm chained up. I'm a sociable, talkative, and knowledge seeking again despite many obstacles still present in my life.

I wish you all you find peace in your life after going through all bad experiences caused by addiction.
Cheers!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Adder, you have come so far! I'm really proud of you man; keep up the good work.

====
the more you know *
====

Buprenorphine is a μ-opioid partial agonist, buprenorphine is also a κ-opioid antagonist (which expands the anti-anxiety profile of the drug), and buprenorphine is also a δ-opioid antagonist. Buprenorphine's main active metabolite, norbuprenorphine, is actually a full μ-opioid agonist, a full δ-opioid agonist, as well as a partial κ-opioid agonist.

Buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine also have an effect at the ORL-1 receptors; but I won't get into that.

However, as I have illustrated here, buprenorphine itself has varying degrees of effects at different dosages, as the different proportions of buprenorphine to norbuprenorphine will yield different results on the receptors (too much buprenorphine will prevent norbuprenorphine from working, but a sweet spot dosage of buprenorphine will be high enough to get full effects but not too high so as to leave plenty of open receptors for norbuprenorphine).

I believe when you get the sweet spot of buprenorphine, the δ/κ effects balance out with only slight κ antagonism (which reduces anxiety), while partially and fully activating the μ-opioid in an optimal fashoin.

 

[ellua]

^^ is this why my doctor has mentioned that while tapering, many people discover they need to stay on it for it's mood-stabilizing effects?

 

[ellua]

^^^ So you were pregnant and switched to Subutex? I dont understand why? Or was it just an excuse you told ur dr to get you to switch?

wasnt your baby born with dependence to sub?

yes, it's standard practice to switch pregnant patients to Subutex because in that case they admit the naloxone is pointless and why expose the fetus to one more substance with unknown effects on development? (let's not go into exposing everyone ELSE to it.) I was really pregnant, I didn't have any other motivation to get switched to subutex. i've been with my doc for a long time and he's pretty awesome. i'm pregnant now again though and haven't told him yet because he will make me come every month, which is a few hundred bucks out of pocket, instead of every other month, so i'm holding off until it's obvious.

i delivered in january and the biggest worry was having to leave my newborn in the NICU to be treated for withdrawals, or worse, having an uneducated team of docs/nurses who assume sub babies WILL be born in withdrawal and treat every sneeze as a sign of agony and blame the druggie mother, all a product of expectation bias. but, everything was fine, i still got the pain relief from the epidural, and baby was perfect. no one treated me like a druggie, labor and delivery nurses are some of the kindest and most patient people i've ever met. there was one bump where they woke me at 3AM to tell me CPS would be speaking to me because they found amphetamine in the baby's waste, and i freaked saying "I have a prescription! They can't take my baby!" But somehow they just didn't get the message about my script... all was well. For other women looking for info on pregnancy & suboxone I'll add that I breastfed for 6 months too, well pumped, actually, but still gave those benefits to the baby which i feel good about. It's not automatically off the table just because you're on medication, so do some research and talk to your doctor!! Any doc worth their salt should agree that the benefits of BFing far outweigh any slight risk of the tiny amount of medicine passed thru the milk.

i do plan to start tapering off in mid-2013, after I've delivered, i'm sure i'll have plenty of questions for you guys when it comes to micro-mini dosing.

 

[Znegative]

I was under the impression that while yes, Subutex/buprenorphine hcl was preferable to Suboxone (buprenorphine +Naloxone), that many pregnant women are instead switched to methadone for some reason (I forget why, but it was actually my Sub doctor who told me this, of all people). Regardless, congrats Ellua on your child and I wish you the best of success with your taper! It can be done!!

also, in regards to lower dosages and mood elevating effects, it is true with suboxone, making it kind of a double edged sword. A you taper down, you begin to feel more agonistic opiate effects from the Bupe, and the lower you go, the more pronounced these effects become. When I tapered down to .5mg sublingually, each dosage felt comparable to taking 15mg or so of methadone. This did help me taper, but my reasons for tapering sort of switched, as originally I did it because I wanted to get off of suboxone, but then I just waned to taper because I would get more and more high the lower I went, all the while being congratulated by my family and friends for being clean. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything wrong with doing that if it keeps you off of other opiates, its just sort of annoying if you actually WANTED to get off Bupe for good.

 

[OEandricearoni]

Best of luck!

The last time I upped my buprenorphine dosage, it was due to severe pain from 2 broken bones. So I'm still tapering too, and am kind of pissed at myself because I was SO CLOSE to getting off of buprenorphine all together. I'm now at 80mcg per dosage, and I was way below that the first time around. *sigh*

80mcg per dose? How do you measure out your doses in micrograms? I mean 80mcg is a tiny dose, i have no idea how one would do that. Also, you said you use your bupe IV, I'd like to do that as well, but i don't have micron filters so as a regular everyday thing its a bad idea. Are you using the film or the pills? I've tried shooting the film once, i was successful, but it was a pain in the ass.

The solution gets some gelly type stuff in it because of the strip, which makes it hard to draw up. I cotton filtered it 3 times before i felt the solution was ready for injection but I'm sure it still wasn't safe at all. I wonder if the strips are better or worse than the pills when it comes to IV risk.

 

[ryand123]

about 11hrs ago i IV'd 2mg/60iu of suboxone film solution in to the vein between my index finger and thumb. because of a tourniquet malfunction about 10-15iu of solution was shot out from the vein. it is now swollen and itchy. there is slight redness but next to no pain, if any. is infection most likely in this case? not looking for a concrete diagnosis just opinions and thoughts. Quick replies would be really appreciated. this prbably doesnt belong here but my phone wont let me make a new thread :/. anyways, thanks guys!

 

[cire113]

about 11hrs ago i IV'd 2mg/60iu of suboxone film solution in to the vein between my index finger and thumb. because of a tourniquet malfunction about 10-15iu of solution was shot out from the vein. it is now swollen and itchy. there is slight redness but next to no pain, if any. is infection most likely in this case? not looking for a concrete diagnosis just opinions and thoughts. Quick replies would be really appreciated. this prbably doesnt belong here but my phone wont let me make a new thread :/. anyways, thanks guys!

I would keep an eye out and see what happens; Get a warm compress going on it; hopefully the body will absorb it and nothing bad will happen;

U "should" be fine but anything can happen..

BTW way too high of a dosage bro; 1mg MAX

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^^ is this why my doctor has mentioned that while tapering, many people discover they need to stay on it for it's mood-stabilizing effects?

That's one way to look at it.

Another way to look at it is that opioids can be amazing medications for certain problems. A lot of people self-medicate themselves without realizing it. If a certain person had a problem (like depression, anxiety, physical pain), and the reason they became addicted to heroin was because it was effectively alleviating depression (etc.), then it would make sense to stay on an opiate like Suboxone or methadone, so the person can afford the medical benefits of opioids.

I think another reason is because a lot of people will relapse without anything, and Suboxone is a really nice drug to be able to avoid relapse entirely while being satisfied but not severely intoxicated. If I had to quit Suboxone years ago, I could have easily relapsed sadly. That's why i'm glad I'm still on Suboxone, my life is turning around a lot and I don't have the desire to use heroin anymore after a long time on Suboxone.

But yeah, I think some people specifically get medicinal effects from buprenorphine from its multi-faceted profile as mentioned above, because I know one person who likes it more than (good quality) heroin or morphine. I think that could be related to an abnormal multi-faceted opioid receptor profile, which buprenorphine more or less changes for the better. Just a theory of course, I'm not trying to say that my thought here is fact or anything, it's just my suspicion if anything.

 

[J2DATP]

Anyone know how long it takes to get through the withdrawl of suboxone??

 

[J2DATP]

Question: Suboxone Side Effect, Hot Flashes..

Question: I take suboxone and b4 taking suboxone I didn't have this problem, but I've started having hot flashes.. Where I would break out in a sweat.. I can feel it coming on, & my body gets hot and the sweat starts pouring.. Last for about 5 to 10 min, then my body starts freezing.. Happens about 3 to 5 times a day, sometimes I wake up sweating like I just worked out, I mean my four head, face, chest, back, stomach....... Full body sweat & I think it's related to the suboxone, cuz that's when I noticed it when I started taking it.. Does anyone have a similar problem or experience the same fealing??

 

[Znegative]

Hey Guys, Cire113 sent me this really cool article relating to the 'Less is More' Theory (or myth according to this). While I feel parts of the article will be rather obvious to some members, itse eth cool, and it has a great image of brain scans showing the amount of a available Mu opiate receptors in individuals on different dosages of Bupe (or no Bupe at all). Anyway, Please check it out!.

 

[adder]

@ J2DATP

I had the same problem as you. Sometimes when I woke up, I was all covered with a thin layer of sweat. During the day sweat covers my forehead mostly. It is caused by buprenorphine but it's nothing abnormal as for an opioid activating MOR (or as they recommend now, MOP). E.g. the same happens when one injects morphine or opium intravenously, it's different with heroin so I know a lot of people may have not experienced this, it's because heroin crosses blood-brain barrier fast (thus much more morphine and 6-MAM are "trapped" in the brain, as metabolites of heroin) and morphine permeates the body more (hence the "pins & needles" feeling I never experienced after injecting heroin), more histamine is secreted. Buprenorphine also takes more time to reach the brain.

Before seeking aid in taking some anticholinergics, try drinking Salvia officinalis infusion or if that doesn't help, look for an extract in capsules, it may also contain some other extracts for the same purpose. Also, I guess stabilizing on Suboxone helps too although some people experience massive sweating anyway and they need some medication to fight this side effect.

Hey Guys, Cire113 sent me this really cool article relating to the 'Less is More' Theory (or myth according to this). While I feel parts of the article will be rather obvious to some members, itse eth cool, and it has a great image of brain scans showing the amount of a available Mu opiate receptors in individuals on different dosages of Bupe (or no Bupe at all). Anyway, Please check it out!.

I may be wrong here but doesn't the fact that buprenorphine needs to affect like only 5-10% of receptors to take its effect have something to do with this? Of course buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine different levels at different doses is an important factor here as Captain Heroin pointed out as norbuprenorphine has opposite action at some receptors and at lower doses buprenorphine blocks norbuprenorphine action more than at higher doses.

adder...
Cut your 2mg pills in two, put half in a shotglass add 3 drops of Vodka (if their the small round pills) More drops if their bigger etc. Let bupe' dissolve - scrape the cotton of one end of a Q-tip with a serrated knife, drop cotton in & let it soak up the solution - drop it under your tongue and dont swallow that shit ! Let it soak through your membrane. The longer, the better

I also wanted to thank for this piece of advice. Buprenorphine has overtly a higher bioavailability sublingually in an alcoholic solution than when taken "normally". It can really be 30% vs. 50% (I guess it's easier to notice that at such a low dose as mine, i.e. 2mg).

 

[ryand123]

Ok i just woke up. its been about 12hrs. it even more swollen (probably since swelling peaks at 24hrs) but there is no redness and no pain. my hand just feels tight cuz its swollen. And its not itchy anymore. good sign or bad sign. and i know 2mg is a high dose. i used to do 16mg a day IV but ive tapered myself down to 3-4mg IV a day. mostly a psychological addiction thats been keeping me at such high doses but im still working my way down! im scared to get down to ~2mg or less a day, but im doin it in just a couple days.