A friend of mine died from one 'hit' 25–I NBOMe at New Orleans festival... Warning!

[thoughtsUnThought]

My ex was good friends with this dude, I met him multiple times and he was a good guy...
Very fucking sad story....

I figure this board would do well to have this info. He took one 'hit' in liquid form of 25I and was hospitalized within the hour, Critical condition life support for a few days before death.

I will get what info I can about this to help save others and avoid further harm. The event happened in new orleans at the voodoo music festival over Halloween weekend.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ic-hallucinogenic-drug.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Article is lacking in depth go figure, and lists the compound as a synthetic lsd in title but regardless of incomplete reporting here's the media released info on this tragedy...

Was this drop dosed 1–2mg + you think? I hear of harsh reactions from blers on doses of this level, but I have no exp with this compound or other rcs. So sad and surprised that one hit would kill somebody though, had to be very irresponsible dose per drop measuring on the dealers part I imagine...would the 'couple of red bull vodkas' consumed prior to ingestion of 25I be somehow deadly to combine with?

Keep your prayers and positive energies flowing friends, rough times for some good people in AR.
the article mentioned a relief fund for his family, I will get the link to that for anyone interested as well.

With Love and sparkling potentials,
tUt

 

[RobotRipping]

so sorry to hear, 1-2mg shouldn't kill you but some people have had bad reactions from it. i've taken 15mg and didn't die, thought i was gonna seize though.

what happened to me is the liquid i was storing the 25i in evaporated and i ended up with a super saturated dose. That's a possiblity, anyway sorry to hear, it's tragic.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

What's the cause and effect? Taking the rc crap and then dying?
Hopefully I misinterpreted the coldness in that post.

Thanks robotripping, evap leading to a super saturated dose would explain it...

 

[Obsidius]

^OP: the news reports where made before even an autopsy / toxicology report were made aparently.

could there have been polydrug use? or maybe a medication interaction? he certainly had alcohol and caffeine in his system from the news report. but maybe also something else?
allergic reaction? overdose?

a detailled toxicology report would really help the whole community to target a certain issue (of maybe a very unsafe combination / interaction). just media scare does nothing.

dont get me wrong. sorry for your loss

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

I will procure details from friends who were at the festival with him.
These same ideas came to my mind as well, medications maybe or another illici t drug combination. But from who the story was told to me by I am fairly confident that those details would have been mentioned.

I am posting because a friend told me that was what he took that caused the reaction, the media piece I gave as a reference.

 

[cpuller]

We dont know the dosage, he didnt know and the dealer probably didnt know the dosage.
That could be a reason.

 

[Solipsis]

Truly sad, very sorry to hear this.

Perhaps what was meant by the link to the poll is that apparently many people read about these compounds here on BL first. There is cause and effect but generally speaking they are mixed up since some people may read about a life-saving tip here while others may learn about the existence of these compounds and get themselves killed. It's very hard to determine what the net effect is from sharing certain information here on the forum. Suppose we would ban the topic from discussion, surely people would still be aware of the existence of these compounds / have them on hand. Then without guidance how quickly would we have deaths on our hands? People just eyeballing the stuff if they grow desperate from not finding info?
What would have been a realistic decision to prevent this death, and that same question regarding other deaths? Do we know?

I guess I agree that if I interpret it correctly, just mentioning cause and effect may come across as a neutral observation or indeed quite rational and cold. But it is an expected consequence and I don't see how it is avoidable, other than by upping the amount of warnings at the start of related threads.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

I don't blame BL obviously, and I see this as a haven for knowledge regarding these topics.
Perhaps the c&e comment was less cold than I interpreted.

From the angle of being the discussers, we cannot ultimately prevent mishap in the fieldof our interest...but I do feel that the compassion which led me to post this thread (hoping to deter further death or bad reaction to the best of my ability) can branch out to help others to be more cautious of the potential safety in what seems to be a single hit of an accessible compound.

What's the max a drop can hold...?

We dont know the dosage, he didnt know and the dealer probably didnt know the dosage.
That could be a reason.

Certainly the case. While the BL regulars are wise enough to measure and ensure proper dosing with compounds this potent, there are plenty of festival goer kids who travel through this board as well as less stringent psychonautical practitioners who would have no qualms taking "a hit" from a stranger at a festival.

So I am adamant about presenting this info here. These don't seem like good compounds for loose willed festival dosing... and from the view of a trip virgin at a festival, all the various compounds are seemingly similar unfortunately. Esp if, as the media bs mentioned these were being passed off as being similar to acid or mescaline..the safety profiles are vastly different, and this is worth being known by those less informed than us drug nerds who may be drifting through our board.



*************
Hey just confirmed that the dose was taken in the nose. Waiting for toxicology confirmation, but I reconfirmed from close friends of his that only alcohol and the red bull was taken, no other illicit drugs, unless the guy with the drops mixed something else with it.

 

[atara]

http://www.wwltv.com/news/Doctors-M...s-three-people-to-NO-hospitals-176361041.html

Since this happened to three people, we know one thing: this was not a case of spurious hypersensitivity to an ordinary dose of 25I. If that were the case, the chance that we'd see three genetically unrelated people get it from the same batch, on the same day, in the same place is basically zero.

That leaves other possibilities: they combined it with something, they took an excessively high dose, or they took something that wasn't 25I. Or some combination of the three -- we won't know until we get a toxicology report.

A drop can hold a lot. 10 mg/drop might be the upper limit -- usually there are 20 drops per milliliter, so a drop weighs 50 mg.

That said, this is a good reason to be wary of people offering you a "drop" of something. A solution can contain -anything-, they're not standardized.

would the 'couple of red bull vodkas' consumed prior to ingestion of 25I be somehow deadly to combine with?

They could, yeah. If you've had a lot to drink, you probably shouldn't take any more drugs. Though getting that into the minds of the drunk is a bit difficult. Caffeine, especially at the "couple of red bulls" level, puts extra stress on the heart -- it's not as toxic as alcohol by a long shot, but combining it with a bunch of stuff isn't a great plan either. I could imagine a few ounces of alcohol and 5 mg of 25I putting someone in the morgue. It's definitely not a pretty picture and not a good idea.

A new rule might be: if you're drunk, never take an unknown dose of anything.

 

[Solipsis]

I was about to respond to that attempting to start a debate on the safety and therapeutical index of NBOMe's compared to other popular illicit (hard)drugs, but on second thought that seems a bit disrespectful.

Also fixingahole I guess you are correct, wasn't gonna refute that.

 

[Transform]

Being hungover, sleep deprived and exposed to a lot of caffeine is already raising the risk for negative interactions at least. We know that these factors can lower seizure thresholds. Coupled with a solid dose of a very intense psychedelic through an incredibly abrupt ROA - you can see where things go wrong.

I don't think it's realistic that I advocate not taking drugs you haven't prepared yourself but at least avoid taking unknown doses of any drug when you've already had any other drug.

 

[slo mo]

It makes me sad that 'psychedelics' have turned into 'dangerous drugs', because there is no reason at all for them to be so. To think that people are growing up with this as their reality, where the occasional death is commonplace - and where idiots with no motivation other than money are moving in without any care or respect for the people that they are selling it to. It's a vicious circle, it seems to me: you're forced to clean up someone else's mess - who really should have known better - but it can't be done without making more people aware of this dangerous drug, which has no benefits at all over the existing psychedelic drugs.
A mentality sets in....

Are psychedelics dangerous if handled correctly? Is anything dangerous if handled correctly? Sad that people die from any drug/med, but it isn't always predictable and easy to blame just a single substance. If everything was legal, purity and doses guaranteed accurate and with dosing instructions (and with interaction side effect sheet like in scripts) then I doubt as many deaths would occur but some still could die for whatever reason. We just have to hope people educate themselves and are more careful which is no guarantee .

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

If they're going to be discussed here daily though, this deserves equal chance for exposure in reference to all the threads discussing the dynamics of the experience.

It is a vicious cycle no doubt, but I don't think that a thread focused on the dangers is a bad idea given people are dying and the topic of nbomes is commonplace here already. I didn't know that this is the first place they were discussed though...

Sleep deprivation could have contributed I'll see about finding out if that was a variable in this case.

 

[lightofmeaning]

Truly sad, very sorry to hear this.

Perhaps what was meant by the link to the poll is that apparently many people read about these compounds here on BL first. There is cause and effect but generally speaking they are mixed up since some people may read about a life-saving tip here while others may learn about the existence of these compounds and get themselves killed. It's very hard to determine what the net effect is from sharing certain information here on the forum. Suppose we would ban the topic from discussion, surely people would still be aware of the existence of these compounds / have them on hand. Then without guidance how quickly would we have deaths on our hands? People just eyeballing the stuff if they grow desperate from not finding info?
What would have been a realistic decision to prevent this death, and that same question regarding other deaths? Do we know?

I guess I agree that if I interpret it correctly, just mentioning cause and effect may come across as a neutral observation or indeed quite rational and cold. But it is an expected consequence and I don't see how it is avoidable, other than by upping the amount of warnings at the start of related threads.

It was sold to me as Lucy on blotter over the summer and the information here helped me for sure. I had no intention of trying the stuff but shady events led to it and I am thankful that I had prior knowledge of the compound.

 

[Solipsis]

Glad to hear that, l.o.m. but.. for every one of you or me, how many PD lurkers are getting themselves hospitalized that would otherwise have been none the wiser? Of course we could moan about the ethics ad infinitum but let's not.
Hopefully there will be good feedback on the matter how we can help as a community, and my compadres (and I) can discuss completing putting up the proper warnings.

Anyway I wonder about the reasons for these incidents, the exact cause of death in all NBOMe fatalities and the possibly surprising mechanism of toxicity... as for myself: not sure when I will try out more N-subbed PEAs in the medicine cabinet, quite likely I will put other psychedelics at higher priority and benefit from the extra time for these mysteries to get cleared up.

 

[lightofmeaning]

I think a huge problem is the “heroic dose” culture that has surrounded the psychedelic community. It was bad enough when people apply it to LSD or mushrooms but becomes incredibly dangerous with these compounds.

The worst part of the whole deal with my experience was that about 20 people all thought it was the best “acid” they had ever done. A few even refused to believe what they had taken was not LSD. I don’t understand how you can miss the taste and numbing but people do.

Anyways, I think warnings on threads and stiff infractions for giving bad advice or suggesting dangerous doses should be considered.

 

[Dmytry]

taking psychedelics up the nose increases side effects massively. if i remember correctly, most of the 2c-t-7 deaths were due to snorting it or mixing it with mdma, so its not unreasonable to speculate that the route of administration had a lot to do with his death. 25I also has a wider range of effects on people than lsd, so its tricky to get the dose right for everyone. sorry to hear about your loss.

 

[Solipsis]

Hmm it is true but drugs like 2C-T-7 may very well have different metabolism after oral dosing and absorption in the stomach / gut, a part that is skipped by parenteral administration such as snorting. NBOMes don't work at all orally so this distinction is not quite as relevant with them.
Still you raise an interesting point: some people, especially those that try sublingual or buccal administration, may not get it quite right and accidentally wash some product down with saliva or swallow it before optimal absorption... things like that can certainly make it look like doser seem to lie higher than what is true.
Add to that the different batches cut with dextrose and the like... but modestly as some users report. I have no idea what range of cut doses we are talking about so who knows how much the numbers are skewed.

Nasal administration IMO mostly ensures that there is very little loss with absorption, but I doubt that the difference with proper sublingual or buccal administration would be so big that it could be said to attribute significantly to the overdose. Correct me if I'm wrong.

One or more of these reasons may be why the dose of 25I was probably ridiculously high at the Voodoo deaths, "heroic" dosing sentiments included as plausible motive.

Know your doses and start low. Then don't go high unless you can be consistent in the way you dose or can limit the loss range altogether.

 

[atara]

This website was the place that these compounds were first mentioned publicly, was it not?

The nature of the activity of the 25x series came into public view only after they became available as RCs -- and the vendor was aware of this activity before the first doses shipped.

Ooops, big mouth!

I assure you none of us are trying to kill people.

Fond memories, though; I assumed -- and argued -- that the pharmacological profile of the NBOMe's should guarantee safety up to a few times a threshold dose, which ought to be enough for anyone, and so we shouldn't see many problems. People quickly proved me wrong -- and Murphy right -- by taking multi-milligram amounts and dying. In all my time playing with 25C I never saw fit to exceed 550 ug.

Those who continue to study novel psychoactive compounds have definitely learned from this and other mishaps (cough methoxetamine cough). You no longer see me posting in the "next recreational drug" threads.

 

[In_A_Transit]

I'm not sure if this has been answered yet. I don't have much time to read through every post

Did anyone with him take the dose? If so what were there reactions?