Bupe Bupe induction not working?? (not PW)

[Soccertrendy]

Hey folks havent been on for a while, had a bit of a bad time lately with my child being born with serious eye problems, possibly blind and in turn i turned to heroin.

Anyway my mrs has been dabbling aswell and has ended up getting herself a habit aswell.

Anyway i managed to get a hold of about 8 x 8mg suboxone tablets and she decided that today she was going to try and use them to detox as i can pretty much get as many as i want.

She had her last smoke last night at about 9pm (UK heroin which is pretty rubbish) i am on 54ml of methadone and it holds me no problem. Anyway we waited to about 3pm today before she was in pretty bad WD's certainly enough to avoid PW's firstly she took about 1mg under her tongue and let it dissolve and it made her fel no better after about 40 minutes, so she put another 2mg under her tongue, 30 minutes passes and nothing. done this till she was up to an 8mg tablet and still she was pretty ill.

i Called my friend who i got subs off and he said he was on two 8mg a day and by the time my mrs was getting really stressed because she was thinking she had taken too much sub to score and feel better so she put a full 8mg under her tongue and let it dissolve.

Thing is its now 7.23pm and she still isnt squared up. Now i know i must hav done something wrong but i have no idea what? i feel really bad as i have been saying to her for ages to stop dabbling and use the subs now i feel guilyy that she has and it hasnt worked.

can anyone advise me what i done wrong or what i should do now? my mate is in having a drink and he has some heroin but i know that wont help (will it?) and im not sure if she should take more sub so as to feel better??

i really dont know but any help would be massivelly appreciated

thank you

 

[tricomb]

Hey there,

I think she could go up to 8mg. Be sure that she's using proper sublingual technique, not swallowing her spit and holding it in place under her tongue for 10 minutes at least. Also, many users report increased efficacy via the sublingual route of administration by swishing out their mouths with mouthwash (which should contain alcohol/ethanol) prior to placing the tablet under their tongues for 10 minutes without swallowing.

This is a bit unorthodox, but buprenorphine is absorbed about 20% better via the nasal route, with a bioavailability of around 50%, meaning 50% of nasally administered buprenorphine will reach the bloodstream, compared to 30% via sublingual ROA.

So her first 1mg dose, she actually felt the effects of about 0.3mg, or 300 micrograms of buprenorphine. This is a good sign if it held her, however temporarily, at such a low dose.

I would continue to titrate her dose up slowly, every hour or two, probably best to stick to the sublingual route of administration if possible, but if necessary, you could try putting a very small amount into solution with like a half mL of water and administer that nasally.

However, since you indicated that you can get an unlimited amount of buprenorphine tablets, I would urge your Mrs. to stick to the sublingual route of administration. Just as a matter of practice, it is not ideal for an addict to snort something when the whole point is to be moving away from addictive tendencies.

I wish the best of luck to the both of you, please get help soon, your daughter needs you both now more than ever and it's really unfair to turn to heroin instead of dealing with the bad hand of cards you were dealt, try finding a way to improve her life.

 

[mrflowers00]

bupe doesn't make ME feel better (or my dad) untill 48 hours after our last shot of dope after 24 hours it just keeps us from getting more sick

 

[Supeudol]

Buprenorphine still does NOT fully hold me even at 16mg/day. I have no idea how some of you are only 1mg or 2mg of Suboxone/day, must have had much lighter habits. I find that Methadone actually 'holds' you better and for longer than Buprenorphine does. But I I find Buprenorphine to be a little more mood lifting, but it pisses me off, because I don't want to go any higher than 16mg/day of Suboxone, because that is a pretty high dosage already. I also notice that after about 8mg it seems to me that there is a 'ceiling effect' with buprenorphine.

But you people that are on 1-2mg of Suboxone per day? What was your previous habit? How the hell do you get by? I am taking it a lot of you on this dose never really got into the harder opioids like fentanyl, and hydromorphone?

I have no idea, but just a guess.

Sorry to hijack thread, but that Bupe induction takes a lot longer to work properly on you than Methadone induction, thats for sure. Its too bad Methadone wasn't such a dirty opioid.

Also I am thinking that a lot of these people on 1-2mg of Buprenorphine were just using Heroin. And the Heroin purity in North America varies all the time, but its been quite awhile since you've been able to get quality #4 heroin in ANYWHERE in North America, unless you are a lucky duck and stumble upon a good source.

 

[tricomb]

16mg / day for maintenance, not induction?? Jeez.

However, I'm pretty sure that most people, with very few exceptions, can get by on 8mg or less for daily maintenance.

I don't think that it has anything to do with the potency of the opioids they abused, just peoples body chemistry being different, but that just my $0.02

 

[Supeudol]

16mg / day for maintenance, not induction?? Jeez.

However, I'm pretty sure that most people, with very few exceptions, can get by on 8mg or less for daily maintenance.

I don't think that it has anything to do with the potency of the opioids they abused, just peoples body chemistry being different, but that just my $0.02

Yes, 16mg/day for maintenance, and that does not even completely hold me. I find buprenorphine to be a very strange drug. I just don't understand. But I guess it could be my taper from benzo's and lyrica as well thats causing some of these nasty symptoms. More than likely it is the benzo's and the Pregabalin causing a lot of symptoms which mimic opiate withdrawal as well. 7 years on Lyrica, 9 years on Benzodiazepines/Opiates (Extremely high dosages). I was hoping to be held at like 8mg/day of Sub maintenance but no fucking way.

 

[Supeudol]

^BTW - just wanted to say that the induction period I was basically in w/d the whole entire time. Took a good week and a half to start seeing a turn around with buprenorphine induction (for me anyways)..

 

[Znegative]

^buprenorphine is well known for having a ceiling effect, it's a partial agonist which is one of the major reasons it is used for Opiate Replacement Therapy (along with its long duration-36 hour half life). Also, the ceiling effect is probably between 2-6mg (IME, I've never notices increases effects above 4mg), even though R&B claim that this ceiling occurs at 32mg. Basically, these mega doses are prescribed to people to try and ensure a stability (meaning, the patient can dose once a day and not feel withdrawals symptoms for a good 24+hours) as well as a blocking effect (which occurs at doses typically above 2mg due to buprenorphines super high affinity to opiate receptors which makes it impossible for many other full agonist opiates to attach).

Also, most people on 1-2mg of suboxone did not start off at that dose. I've gone from shooting 10-15 bags of heroin per day to 16mg of suboxone, and then been able to taper down to 2ng within 2 weeks

Edit//
I just wanted to add (in response to the last comment by Supeudol) that I relate to having a shitty induction period. Almost every time that I switched to subs from heroin I was able to make a smooth and comfortable transition. However, after going on a two week vacation with Iv oxymorphone (using up to 60mg per day with 10mg shots), switching back to suboxone was horrendous. Not only did I enter precipitated withdrawals, but I never seemed to get out of withdrawal either, and I was stuck in this hellish state for at least three days before I began to get any relief from buprenorphine. Also, just in case anyone is wondering what sort of doses of suboxone and subutex I was taking, I was using quite a lot, at least 24mg a day, and I would straight up shoot entire 8mg subutex tablets at a time.

I also find it interesting that you experience methadone to hold you longer than Buprenorphine. I used to be of the same opinion when I had used methadone for detox only, but in terms of maintenance, IME a suboxone dose of 6mg or more can hold me for a good 48 hours wheras with methadone, at dosages under 70mg, I begin to feel withdrawal symptoms after only 30 hours. however though, like I said earlier, methadone will hold for much longer when one is on a blocking dose, or at least that has been my experience. When I was on 100mg it took me about 4 1/2 days to start feeling any acute withdrawals.

There definitely are some habits that are simply too much for buprenorphine to handle effectively. For drugs like Oxymorphone, Hydromorphone and fentanyl, I would say that in terms of a detox, one would probably be better off on methadone seeing as it is a full agonist. However, if your habit can be satisfied by 40mg or less of methadone, than Buprenorphine should definately work for you so long as you wait the appropriate amount of time to dose.

 

[Soccertrendy]

the thing is a half gram of uk heroin would hold her for a day absolutely no bother (and im sure its far worse that the stuff in the states) for instance neither me nor my mrs have ever nodded in the last 6 months and i have sat and smoked a teenth in one sittin i.e in an hour infact i have done an 1/8th in an hour and still not been anywhere near nodding. I could smoke an 8th and go down and speak to my mum and she wouldnt know (my mrs couldnt obv) only reason i still do it as the money i spend comes directly from another drug so doesnt hurt anywhere near as much using the old well i never had the dough anyway line lol Always easier to spend someone elses £££

the question is what should i do next? when we wake up tomorrow if shes rough should i just up her dose?? i was thinking of getting her to snort a couple of ml as i have always found in the past to be much more effective and not really that nasty

 

[Znegative]

Well, I find it really strange that your wife is still in withdrawal after consuming 8mg (even sublingually), especially considering she is only using half of gram of what sounds like low quality heroin, through a method of consumption (chasing) which does not have the greatest absorption rate, around 40% BA. However, I don't know why you'd bother to make this whole post if you were lying, so it's just unfortunate really.

I'm thinking that perhaps your wife metabolizes heroin/morphine a little it slower than most people, and since you didn't wait a full 24 hours (you said her last hit was 9pm the night before, and she took the first dose of suboxone at 3pm the next afternoon), that she entered a state of precipitated withdrawals which were probably unrecognizable as she sounds as though she was already in pretty bad withdrawals at that point anyway (meaning, withdrawals can only get so bad and at some point, precipitated withdrawal probably wouldn't make normal withdrawal any worse-if you're one of those people unfortunate enough to enter sever withdrawals six-eight hours after your last dose).

I'm not sure if this is what happened, but its definitely a possibility. The only time that I got intense precipitated withdrawals, I continued to dose more suboxone throughout the course of an entire day (until I had consumed about 20mg total) and it didn't seem to make much of a difference, I was still sick and disoriented.

I personally would wait it out some and see how she feels waking up the next day. If she is in withdrawal (which is a very real possibility as the buprenorphine has not had the chance to build up in the blood enough to a point where she would feel stable even on a high dose like 8mg..) I would try and get her to take another 2mg, and then wait 1 hour and see how she looks/feels. By this point, she really might as well give the suboxone a chance seeing as using heroin would most likely not even be effective due to suboxone's blocking effect. I would imagine that after 36 hours she will start to feel significantly better. If not than she might respond better to methadone for detox/maintenance (though if she chooses to do that, she should wait a few days for the buprenorphine to clear out, which could mean switching back to heroin or another short acting full agonist in the meantime). She's also got to keep in mind that for most people with heroin habits, buprenorphine is not going to produce many (if any) euphoric effects during the induction period. It's basically supposed to help with withdrawals and cravings (I imagine both of you know this, but some people don't, so I figured I'd state it just in case-forgive me if I sounded preachy or condescending).

 

[Hobble]

I think like Zneg said, maybe she was in heroin wd after 18hrs and didn't wait the full 24 so when she took the sub she experienced some precipitated wd that felt just like regular wd. If she still feels bad it's probably because it sometimes take a few to several days for bupe to make you feel fully normal.

I came off a habit where I could easily smoke a half gram of tar heroin per day on top of eating about 300mg of oxycodone per day. I waited 23 hours to dose the bupe and basicly after titrating up ended up taking about 3 to 4mg of bupe 3 times per day, so a total of about 8 - 12mg per day, sublingual as directed.

It took me about 4 days to feel actually close to normal. I was sickly those 4 days but I was able to work, eat, sleep, etc. On about the 5th day I felt pretty darn good and kept getting better every day. It still took about 10 days before I really felt normal, by then I was only taking one full 8mg strip per day, split into 3 doses = 2.66mg morning, 2.66mg afternoon and 2.66mg evening.

 

[Crashing]

Buprenorphine still does NOT fully hold me even at 16mg/day. I have no idea how some of you are only 1mg or 2mg of Suboxone/day, must have had much lighter habits. I find that Methadone actually 'holds' you better and for longer than Buprenorphine does. But I I find Buprenorphine to be a little more mood lifting, but it pisses me off, because I don't want to go any higher than 16mg/day of Suboxone, because that is a pretty high dosage already. I also notice that after about 8mg it seems to me that there is a 'ceiling effect' with buprenorphine.

But you people that are on 1-2mg of Suboxone per day? What was your previous habit? How the hell do you get by? I am taking it a lot of you on this dose never really got into the harder opioids like fentanyl, and hydromorphone?

I have no idea, but just a guess.

Sorry to hijack thread, but that Bupe induction takes a lot longer to work properly on you than Methadone induction, thats for sure. Its too bad Methadone wasn't such a dirty opioid.

Also I am thinking that a lot of these people on 1-2mg of Buprenorphine were just using Heroin. And the Heroin purity in North America varies all the time, but its been quite awhile since you've been able to get quality #4 heroin in ANYWHERE in North America, unless you are a lucky duck and stumble upon a good source.

I used to bang about a bundle or more of #4 a day, or the equivalent of oxycodone which was around 3-4 90mg shots per day (but those only made me feel well, not high but it was way too much $$$), also smoked my share of fent gel patches and dilaudid, banged plenty of opana, and i went into wd and went onto 2mgs of sub then down to 1mg per day and felt totally relieved. Taking a higher dose of sub didn't feel any different, either.

The #4 around my area for sure was very high quality, with one bag of powder being about as strong as 80mg + of oxy at the best times. I definitely got a lot of batches that were about as strong as 20mg of hydrocodone per bag also, but mostly it was very strong.

 

[DustnRoses]

Buprenorphine still does NOT fully hold me even at 16mg/day. I have no idea how some of you are only 1mg or 2mg of Suboxone/day, must have had much lighter habits. I find that Methadone actually 'holds' you better and for longer than Buprenorphine does. But I I find Buprenorphine to be a little more mood lifting, but it pisses me off, because I don't want to go any higher than 16mg/day of Suboxone, because that is a pretty high dosage already. I also notice that after about 8mg it seems to me that there is a 'ceiling effect' with buprenorphine.

But you people that are on 1-2mg of Suboxone per day? What was your previous habit? How the hell do you get by? I am taking it a lot of you on this dose never really got into the harder opioids like fentanyl, and hydromorphone?

I have no idea, but just a guess.

Sorry to hijack thread, but that Bupe induction takes a lot longer to work properly on you than Methadone induction, thats for sure. Its too bad Methadone wasn't such a dirty opioid.

Also I am thinking that a lot of these people on 1-2mg of Buprenorphine were just using Heroin. And the Heroin purity in North America varies all the time, but its been quite awhile since you've been able to get quality #4 heroin in ANYWHERE in North America, unless you are a lucky duck and stumble upon a good source.

First of all, yes, I think you are right, in that people with small habits are the ones able to maintain on 1-2 mg's, HOWEVER, I also believe it has A LOT to do with how long you've been using, and maybe even more specifically, how long/how many times you have used bupe, because I've always gone to bupe after using heroin, not any pharmaceutical opiates, and it's always very potent dope....(not sure what you were saying about the purity of dope in north america...and to be quite honest, I think it's nonsense when people generalize like "north america has had bad dope for the past X amount of years) every dealer has different connections that link back to different king pin dealers...they don't all go back to the same supplier...I've never settled for low quality stuff...I use about 1gram a day, smoked, and get good nods from this stuff.

Anyways, the first couple of times I used bupe, the transition was smooth, and I was able to use a very small dose (even got down to micrograms) however the past 2 times or so, it's been a lot more difficult....in fact the most recent time, I went from smoking a gram a day to bupe....this was only about 4 days ago. I waited about 16 hours, took a 1mg dose, intranasal, and no immediate relief...I repeated this every hour or so, til I'd consumed a full 8mg pill, over the course of about 8 hours...and I felt...OK...about 70%...still felt cold, uncomfortable, clammy, but noticeably better than cold turkey. It wasn't until the next day that I kind of stabilized and felt almost completely normal, and that was after taking about 16mg over 24-36 hours. The bad thing (and maybe, now, the good thing) is I went back to smoking dope for the past 3 days, gram a day, and the first 2 days, i didn't feel shit...it was a complete waste, so I knew my receptors were saturated with the bupe. Today, 3 days since I last took bupe, I felt a little high...tomorrow I'm going BACK on bupe, and I'm wondering, do I need to wait 16-24 hours, like usual, or since I still have a substantial amount of bupe in my system, am I safe to take sooner...? That's what I meant when I said it may be a GOOD thing that I didn't get high from the dope.

 

[Supeudol]

^ No since you still have bupe in your system, you do not need to wait 16-24 hours. I did it at the beginning of my induction but with HydroMorphContin 30's.

 

[Coolwhip]

Just keep the dose as low as possible, she just needs to tough it out.

People ruin themselves when they start taking any more than 4mg of bupe a day.(no matter what the habit). Seen it a million times, they expect too much from the bupe so they take more and more jacking their tolerance higher and higher without realizing it, and before they know it 8mg of bupe no longer holds them, not because their habit was so out of control, but because they jacked their tolerance up even higher than it ever was by taking way too much bupe.

Remember, as far as tolerance and withdrawal are concerned, 1mg of bupe is equal to like 30-40mg of oxycodone(if not more, and the bupe lasts much longer).
So if 60mg of oxycodone could keep you WELL(not feeling like you want, just well) then you should have no problem getting by on 2mg of bupe(and should go down from there). The first couple days may be uncomfortable, but just tough it out, it's better than dropping two strips because you think you need it only to become dependent on huge doses of bupe because you wrecked your tolerance trying to catch a buzz.

The absolute best way to use suboxone is to dissolve it in saline and put it into a pump(not squeeze) nasal sprayer. On most nasal sprays I've tried you can get about 80 sprays from 8mL of water, so dissolve 8mg of bupe and you will be getting .1mg per spray. It's got a built in failsafe, after 6-8 sprays it starts running down the back of your throat, so you can't dose more than a mg at a time, forcing you to wait at least a little while before dosing again, hopefully giving the bupe enough time to work so you don't feel like you need to keep dosing. And this way you can easily and inconspicuously dose throughout the day, and it allows you to use the bare minimum to keep you well and if you start feeling WDs again just use a couple sprays.

 

[Tony Williams]

Hi, ok I will explain, from my exp you need 5-15mg of methadone in your system to swap over to Buprenorphine. So some eg's

20mg-30mg and wait 2 days or 2 half lifes for it to clear meaning

20mg + 1day(24hr) = 10mg
30mg + 1day(24hr) = 15mg
20mg + 2day(48hr) = 5mg
30mg + 2day(48hr) = 7.5mg
20mg+ 3day(72hr) = 2.5mg
30mg + 3day(72hr) = 5mg

Now 54mg (you stated ml but please use mg as in other countries it's not 1mg per 1ml)

54mg + 1day 27mg (THIS IS TOO MUCH)
54mg + 2day 13.5mg (this should be ok)
54mg + 3day 6.75mg


Methadone does tend to hang about longer than Heroin and OC and Morphine so if you really can't make it them 2 or 3 days then swap over from methadone to a short one. Now this is illegal and agaist some ddu's policies but worked for me/mates too. Just because after 24hr you're in wd does NOT mean you WONT get pre-wd as 24hr isn't long enough for it to peak I mean Heroin wds get bad at 24hr then peak at 48hr so you should do 36-72hr. Ok here is one idea........

54mg + 1day 27mg (you feel bad, wd's) so we'll make it 3 day instead but use a short acting opiate.
54mg + 3day 6.75mg (get to this point is ideal)
After 24hr when the Methadone no longer holds you, you use heroin just enough but be sure you've spare/extra. Ideally 24-48hr after Methadone use MSCONTIN/OxyContin maybe or use them IV whatever but I see docs script mscontin for this.
Now we're gunna land the Heroin plane and get on the Bupe one

IDEALLY SUBUTEX/BUPE and NOT SUBOXONE. Becausae if you get pre-wds the nal would make it worse again. Now you've been clear so much from Methadone that's not the worry it's the Heroin/short opi so my advice is have your "LAST HIT" abuot after noon so you wd at night time and can force yourself through to the morning. So say 12/midnight we sleep say 6pm we have a good hit of gear and come sleep time 6am would be 12hr since last hit so you'd be rough.

Bupe plane ok, my advice isn't what a doc would give but personal exp assuming this was done right you can use upto 6mg of Bupe for that first day. My advice is no more and to take it slow, another bit of advice maybe is snort 2mg first thing then 2mg every 3hr till you feel OK. other seditives may help but mixing isn't good for HR in general

What you did was was you RUSHed the bupe too much. Buprenorphine is very LONG acting and it takes hr's to work 45m to begin working but when I had pre-wds it was about 4hr and I felt fucking aweful sweating and ill so remember it takes its time to peak. Now back to the done, here's the problem there's STILL too much in your system and most addicts think "I feel bad so I'll just dose/take more" when you dosed more it PUSHES the methadone/h out your system.

Now I dunno how much in total you dosed but if you've gone from 54mg Methadone+smoke of H and 24hr later-48hr later used 16mg!!! of bupe then dam you'll feel bad. When I got like this the ONLY way to fix it is to use Heroin ONTOP, I had beeen ill from doing it "the doctors way" as I have to get all my first doses at the pharmacy and take infront of them which is annoying when you just wanna move over as I had to risk commiting a fuull 8mg tablet instead of having the option to dose myself. After this nasty lash back in aweful wds I drove 4 mins sweating like mad and bought some Heroin and snorted 1UK bag and laid back and the wd's went - I am very sorry for being behind the wheel in that state but I am sure alot of others would in fuckin' pre-wd the scare is "what if it gets worse?" I then IV'ed the rest over the night and when I went the pharm I swallowed 1 and a half and just subbed 4mg then used a bit that day, the following day I dosed 8-12mg and swallowed 4-8mg.

The problem with Meth>Bupe is this if you hit pre'wds then basically they last near until it's out your system.

Bupe and Methadone are both FUCKING dangerious and fussy mixing about and moving about, this is one reason you're better under a doctor


If you want to add me to your MSN or something I can chat to you about it more. I've been on and off bupe/meth/oc/h for 6yrs and I've -£40k to prove

 

[Tony Williams]

I wanna add also alot of addicts here in the UK are put on 16mg. Pretty standard here. When I was first going on bupe I was shooting heroin on and off but 2-3x 80mg OC daily snorted, just to hold me 6yr back this was but 4mg would of worked out I was snorting about 3mg amounts to be stable but the doctor went 16mg straight off the fuckin' bat, I insisted it was too much and got wrote 6mg which helped me, I darted between 6-8mg sublingual before giving Methadone a go, which was better in other ways it's been too long, I wanna be straight so I wanted on Bupe again however this time my tolerence was very high spending £100 a day slamming 240mg OC, 120mg Methadone IV (AMPULES FOR INJ) I knew this time I would need more and to try 16mg, I was never able to get take homes in this past 6 fuckin years and my dose was 40mg of 'done so at night I would wd I needed Heroin or more methadone till the morning, doctors here are funny putting the Methadone up, also if your slamming and using other drugs then they are in trouble if you die. I just wanted to disscontinue 40mg completely for 3-4 days then start but I had to drop to 30mg which is stupid as I was using on 40mg anyway so 30mg it was, more n more shots

actually I made a mistake of shooting/drinking more 'done prioer to my subutex treatment, I entered but was NOT in wd, I exlpanied that but the guy insisted I had to dose there at the DDU or else I'd have to wait a day which was 4mg, what was odd is I had to leave with a script and goto a pharm near the DDU and bring back and dose it???? never had to do that, I swollowed them instead as I wasn't in wd. The guy was sound but knew little about the drug after that I was given 8mg the day after then 16mg then on these I did at my pharm and not ddu (ddu is 8mi from home). that night after the 4mg swalloed normal wds I think hit so I used again, I thought I'd of been ok the following day going for 8mg but dispite feeling crap the methadone 3days (think 70mg silly me for finshing it off like that) must of still been in me - I full dose 8mg sub and 5hr ish later oh boy I feel baddd and ill. I have never felt that bad this was when I got heroin and used ontop which pushed it down, the day after I sub 4mg and swallow the rest and stay clean. The following day I full dosed and I was fine but still used on and off, tolerence grew addiction came back, I fucked it all up and had 2 weeks of NO bupe then at all as I missed a docs appointment so they fiddle you and make you wait longer, etc I got myself onto 24mg and was alot better after some time, I came down myself after a WEEK by swallowing parts to make it like I was dropping as getting the doctor involved is hassle then I was roughly at 16mg/daily and feelin ok so I asked to blockdrop to 16mg. I since then have been at 16mg.

ALL MY ADVICE IS PURELY BASED ON MY EXP. AND OTHERS I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE A PROFESSIONAL OR DOCTOR AND I DO NOT ADVISE YOU TO FIDDLE YOUR DOSE AGAIST DOCS ADVICE. I WILL ADD BUPE FROM HEROIN CAN TAKE 3-5 DAYS TO FEEL THE CRAVINGS FULLY SUBSIDE

^buprenorphine is well known for having a ceiling effect, it's a partial agonist which is one of the major reasons it is used for Opiate Replacement Therapy (along with its long duration-36 hour half life). Also, the ceiling effect is probably between 2-6mg (IME, I've never notices increases effects above 4mg), even though R&B claim that this ceiling occurs at 32mg. Basically, these mega doses are prescribed to people to try and ensure a stability (meaning, the patient can dose once a day and not feel withdrawals symptoms for a good 24+hours) as well as a blocking effect (which occurs at doses typically above 2mg due to buprenorphines super high affinity to opiate receptors which makes it impossible for many other full agonist opiates to attach).

This guy indeed speaks the truth! I think different opiates mix diff with bupe also. Like I've found >4mg subbed to have little effect on any hard opiates I found 6-8mg toys with OxyContin Snorted and 8-10mg IV'ed I do find Heroin can blast through the bupe better, I was clean off H for a full 5 days but 16mg daily of subbed bupe I dosed Sun @ 5pm and this morning I walk the pharm and back and dosed my 16mg but oddly I got that dam craving I copped 2 bags hoping to shot intime before the bupe worked and I was amazed no rush but a mild quick buzz, fucking 1.30hr after dosing dam slow dealer! stupidly I did another 2+1 later on which is now and felt it but mild, sadly them 5 bags will put up my tolerence again as tomorrow morning I would be at 24hr and night 36hr I find the bupe has it's own seperate tolerence, like I've gone 16mg daily for 11 days and missed a day then the next morning I used 2bag hit and the rush was great.

I hope to the OP the best in recovery.

 

[Fire&Water]

Just keep the dose as low as possible, she just needs to tough it out.

People ruin themselves when they start taking any more than 4mg of bupe a day.(no matter what the habit). Seen it a million times, they expect too much from the bupe so they take more and more jacking their tolerance higher and higher without realizing it, and before they know it 8mg of bupe no longer holds them, not because their habit was so out of control, but because they jacked their tolerance up even higher than it ever was by taking way too much bupe.

Remember, as far as tolerance and withdrawal are concerned, 1mg of bupe is equal to like 30-40mg of oxycodone(if not more, and the bupe lasts much longer).
So if 60mg of oxycodone could keep you WELL(not feeling like you want, just well) then you should have no problem getting by on 2mg of bupe(and should go down from there). The first couple days may be uncomfortable, but just tough it out, it's better than dropping two strips because you think you need it only to become dependent on huge doses of bupe because you wrecked your tolerance trying to catch a buzz.

The absolute best way to use suboxone is to dissolve it in saline and put it into a pump(not squeeze) nasal sprayer. On most nasal sprays I've tried you can get about 80 sprays from 8mL of water, so dissolve 8mg of bupe and you will be getting .1mg per spray. It's got a built in failsafe, after 6-8 sprays it starts running down the back of your throat, so you can't dose more than a mg at a time, forcing you to wait at least a little while before dosing again, hopefully giving the bupe enough time to work so you don't feel like you need to keep dosing. And this way you can easily and inconspicuously dose throughout the day, and it allows you to use the bare minimum to keep you well and if you start feeling WDs again just use a couple sprays.

I use Ocean saline spray to keep my sinuses bacteria free and clear and open for breathing (meditation) exercises...Dissolving suboxone into it is absolutely not the best way to use this medication.
Maybe if it was a few sterile doses of Buprenex, this may be an okay method of administration.

 

[DustnRoses]

^ No since you still have bupe in your system, you do not need to wait 16-24 hours. I did it at the beginning of my induction but with HydroMorphContin 30's.

are you sure? thursday and friday i had about 8mgs, each day...so 16mgs was in my system, ans with the long half life, i guess that by now, monday afternoon, i still have something like 4-8 mgs maybe...? i las did dope today, about 4 hours ago. i want to start back on sub, but don't wanna give myself precipitated wd.

 

[Supeudol]

are you sure? thursday and friday i had about 8mgs, each day...so 16mgs was in my system, ans with the long half life, i guess that by now, monday afternoon, i still have something like 4-8 mgs maybe...? i las did dope today, about 4 hours ago. i want to start back on sub, but don't wanna give myself precipitated wd.

You should be fine, I went 72 hours without dosing bupe on my first week of being on it at 12mg/day. Then I dosed a HydroMorphContin 30, and two OxyNEO 80s while I had the 48 hour window, and I got a little high, but not much. Anyways, as far as going back to the bupe, you SHOULD be fine. Maybe start at a lower dose than bupe if you can, and then wait half an hour or so? But IMO, I think you should be fine as you should still have some bupe in your system.