Opioids (Yet) another precipitated withdrawal question...

[n0d.out]

Hey first time post here. Can't wait to get more involved

I've UTFSE multiple times and have come up empty handed on this particular question (and if I overlooked it then sorry) so, here goes:
I shot up 8mg (so stupid, I know) of suboxone about 4 hours ago. This was about 18 hours after a nice heroin binge. I really expected to have no form of PW because it was only 3 days of use and an 18 hour period for the heroin to leave my receptors. However, immediately upon pushing that plunger, I knew I fucked up. Awful, god awful, withdrawals were quickly on me so I hopped under my warmest, fuzziest blanket and rode out that indescribable hour. My question, though, is would it be safe to IV 1mg of Suboxone right now (2 hours after the acute phase of PW stopped)? I mean I feel, for the most part, completely fine now, but am just worried that it might send me into PW phase 2. I imagined that was not possible, but have read a few things that say (or at least hint) that can happen. Any personal experiences or anything else that could help with this? Thanks in advance!

 

[Znegative]

Why would you want to IV another milligram of bupe. Shooting eight milligrams is, as you seem to already know, way above the cieling effect (especially when you take BA into consideration), and therefore pointless. Shooting anymore bupe will not make you feel better. If anything, it will increase your chances of getting some nasty side effects that high dose suboxone is known for.

When I took suboxone (I injected it for a long period of time), I would always take it sublingually the first time whenever transitioning back from using full agonists. Then, when you've successfully avoided the precipitated withdrawals, you can IV it of take it in whichever fashion you prefer. Just know the dangers of injecting pills, and invest in a micron filter.

 

[n0d.out]

Thanks for your response. My reasoning behind yet another 1mg of IV bupe is ridiculous really. I've been injecting it (on and off, with many vacations) for a few years now, and normally after a vacation I can do however much and get that IV bupe feeling (I imagine you know what I mean). This time, though, I got these PW and while they wore off quick, I didnt get ANY feeling from the bupe. So I figured that the PW caused that, and that I may have not gotten alot of the bupe (it cleared the receptors but for some reason didn't bind after clearing, something like that) so a 1mg re-up might have me get at least SOME bupe feeling without going to crazy high mgs. Even though I already did like you stated. I have IV'd more than 8mg before w/ no nasty side effects (though that was sad, sad days that were few and far inbetween) so I'm not THAT worried about side effects as much as a second round of PW. Do you think that would be likely or would you imagine that the first round of bupe knocked off whatever little bit of H was left? Once again, thanks for the quick reply :D

 

[cj]

I dont think another shot will cause PW but it will be pointless because your receptors are already saturated.

 

[n0d.out]

I dont think another shot will cause PW but it will be pointless because your receptors are already saturated.

Yeah, that's what I figured was the most likely outcome. Didn't think multiple rounds of PW would be possible (as long as you stuck with the partial agonist after you started it), but I'd still love to see if anybody happened to have a similar experience with any resemblence to this (that they went through with). If not, I may have to do it for the sake of science (or stupidity)

Just know the dangers of injecting pills, and invest in a micron filter.

Thanks for reminding me, I need this to be etched in my mind. I always find money for the dope, but never a micron filter. After years of IV dilaudid, BTH, subs, etc. I can only imagine the damage all those fillers and binders have done to my veins and body. Really hope I'll get my ass up and get one of those, cause I know cotton just really doesn't cut it.

 

[Znegative]

Thanks for your response. My reasoning behind yet another 1mg of IV bupe is ridiculous really. I've been injecting it (on and off, with many vacations) for a few years now, and normally after a vacation I can do however much and get that IV bupe feeling (I imagine you know what I mean). This time, though, I got these PW and while they wore off quick, I didnt get ANY feeling from the bupe. So I figured that the PW caused that, and that I may have not gotten alot of the bupe (it cleared the receptors but for some reason didn't bind after clearing, something like that) so a 1mg re-up might have me get at least SOME bupe feeling without going to crazy high mgs. Even though I already did like you stated. I have IV'd more than 8mg before w/ no nasty side effects (though that was sad, sad days that were few and far inbetween) so I'm not THAT worried about side effects as much as a second round of PW. Do you think that would be likely or would you imagine that the first round of bupe knocked off whatever little bit of H was left? Once again, thanks for the quick reply :D

I know the Iv bupe feeling you want to get, but I can almost GAURANTEE that waiting until Tomorow will give you a much better chance of getting a nice little lift out of your bupe rather than doing it right now.

I remember the first time I went through precipitated withdrawals, I had taken 2mg of suboxone sublingually only 12 hours after my last shot of oxymorphone (stupid, I know). After the withdrawals were finally finished (for me they lasted a lot longer than one hour, more like 3 or four), I took more bupe, both sublingually and intravenously. I kept each dose low as I didn't want to go back to being on a rediculous maintenance dose of suboxone (prior to my oxymorphone binge, I had tapered down my suboxone to about .1-.2mg per shot, maxing out at .6 mg/day.). I found that I was unable to achieve anything other than feeling normal that first day, where I ended up taking about 12mg of suboxone total. The next day I went back to exclusively using IV bupe, but raised my dose to 1mg/shot (4mg total that day), the next day I cut my shots in half, and by day 3 I was pretty much back to injecting the dose that I had been shooting prior to my "vacation".

Basically, my point in sharing this experience is that I find that the first day you switch back to suboxone, you most likely will not get that little energy/mood boost that you're looking for (though it completely depends on how much heroin/other opiate you had been taking)l But if your patient, you can lower your dose back down really quickly and within days achieve that glow again. At this point, taking more bupe will probably set you back more than anything, as I've found that the less bupe that's in your system when you dose, makes for a more euphoric experience.

 

[n0d.out]

I know the Iv bupe feeling you want to get, but I can almost GAURANTEE that waiting until Tomorow will give you a much better chance of getting a nice little lift out of your bupe rather than doing it right now.

I remember the first time I went through precipitated withdrawals, I had taken 2mg of suboxone sublingually only 12 hours after my last shot of oxymorphone (stupid, I know). After the withdrawals were finally finished (for me they lasted a lot longer than one hour, more like 3 or four), I took more bupe, both sublingually and intravenously. I kept each dose low as I didn't want to go back to being on a rediculous maintenance dose of suboxone (prior to my oxymorphone binge, I had tapered down my suboxone to about .1-.2mg per shot, maxing out at .6 mg/day.). I found that I was unable to achieve anything other than feeling normal that first day, where I ended up taking about 12mg of suboxone total. The next day I went back to exclusively using IV bupe, but raised my dose to 1mg/shot (4mg total that day), the next day I cut my shots in half, and by day 3 I was pretty much back to injecting the dose that I had been shooting prior to my "vacation".

Basically, my point in sharing this experience is that I find that the first day you switch back to suboxone, you most likely will not get that little energy/mood boost that you're looking for (though it completely depends on how much heroin/other opiate you had been taking)l But if your patient, you can lower your dose back down really quickly and within days achieve that glow again. At this point, taking more bupe will probably set you back more than anything, as I've found that the less bupe that's in your system when you dose, makes for a more euphoric experience.

That's exactly what I was looking for! That makes perfect sense and I believe I'll just go from your experience this time around. And yes, that is the exact feeling I'm talking about Thanks man! Oh and BTW, I have never done such low doses for maintenence (I didn't even know, till recently, it was used in mcg doses for pain before opiod treatment) but certainly would like to give that a go this time and see what happens. Everybody seems to agree that less is more with bupe. Good first day on BL, got two things squared away

 

[Znegative]

Yeah man, the whole less is more concept really changed my experience with suboxone. After the initial honey moon phase I had become misserable taking 16mg/day. When I started lowering my dosages I felt so much better. It actually helped me stay clean off of other opiates for a long time as the lower dosages provided me with enough of a boost that I didn't crave nearly as much.

I'd also just like to say that you can achieve this effect sublingually as well. It doesn't have to be IV to get the euphoria. I eventually settled on rectal administration as I found it had the same exact onset and feel to it that IV did, but it last at least twice as long.

 

[n0d.out]

It actually helped me stay clean off of other opiates for a long time as the lower dosages provided me with enough of a boost that I didn't crave nearly as much.

That is (I certainly hope, at least) is my main goal, and I understand the miserableness of high dose bupe, so I'll definitely try the mcg doses.

I'd also just like to say that you can achieve this effect sublingually as well. It doesn't have to be IV to get the euphoria. I eventually settled on rectal administration as I found it had the same exact onset and feel to it that IV did, but it last at least twice as long.

Of course, the IV ROA comes more from the needle fetish than anything, but it certainly does take a hard toll on the veins and body (very much so, even at only 22 years of age multiple veins have collapsed, etc.) so I'd love to try rectal administration. Do you dissolve it and use a rectal syringe or just plug the pill itself?

 

[morphonorconic]

Less is definitely more with buprenorphine in my experience. Even with a sky high tolerance to dope and morphine and oxycodone, I could take 1mg or less and feel completely normal. It's really quite amazing from a pharmacological standpoint.

Just ride it out and you'll feel better as your receptors adjust to the partial agonist. I agree with everyone that another milligram shot would not do you any good, and could potentially cause additional discomfort. And just to reiterate what you already know, you shouldn't be IV'ing suboxone to begin with. The effects are much more level and sustained when taken as indicated(sublingually).

 

[jgloversgirl]

im lost does takin them under ur toung just not work? i went through 4 years of hard opit use an i got myself clean with 3 8mg tabs under my toung by splitin them.. cuz w.ds from them are just as bad...

 

[Znegative]

Of course, the IV ROA comes more from the needle fetish than anything, but it certainly does take a hard toll on the veins and body (very much so, even at only 22 years of age multiple veins have collapsed, etc.) so I'd love to try rectal administration. Do you dissolve it and use a rectal syringe or just plug the pill itself?

I completely understand. I was 21-22 when I injected suboxone (I'm now 24), and suffered from the same needle fetish. In a way, shooting the suboxone helped me stay off of heroin, but I can't really condone it now without the use of a micron filter. The thing I came to realize when I tried plugging suboxone, was that the drug really wasn't worth the vein damage (I mean, no drug is, but we're talking relatively), when you can get pretty much the same effect from using it rectally. Plus, you get to perform the exact same ritual as you do when you prep a shot, the only difference is you pull of the needle (or use an oral syringe), and stick it up your anus instead of into your veins. The BA is 54% absorption, so you'd basically want to double your IV dosage to get the same effects. The fact that the BA is lower though is made up for by the much longer duration. My problem with IV sub was that it began to feel no different from then routine of shooting heroin in that I was still slamming drugs into my arms/hands four to five times a day. With plugging, one dose should last you at least twice as long as IV. You can probably get by even by dosing once a day, though with suboxone I always liked to split my dose.

Anyway, good luck to you .

 

[mrflowers00]

i never break the 24 hour rule it took 4 pwds to learn that lesson