The Psychedelic Being

[somaeye]

Why do you keep spouting off all that shit ?

Don't you have any original thoughts or ideas instead of just regurgitating all that nonsense ?

I mentioned before that I wasn't into arguing because I want to be with the Light and enjoy being with Them. That also means that I look for Their Guidance and want to follow what They show me.

I feel very in Harmony with Them.

Why not try to see it from that point of view? There is definitely something there to see.

 

[lastest]

I mentioned before that I wasn't into arguing because I want to be with the Light and enjoy being with Them.

Then why don't you just shut up? If you don't want your views challenged, don't come on here spouting them. Do you expect us all to just to abandon our beliefs and doubts and accept everything you say, oh wise man, oh chosen one? If you love being with "Them" so much then piss off and do it. What do you get out of being here with us?

 

[SONN]

so you're saying the mystical guru that changed so many peoples lives by spiritual means is actually just a person with a very intense OCD neurosis?

and people with OCD can't come into contact with god (psychedelics)?

You should read Be Here Now.
http://www.mediafire.com/?r7any3m0c8ly9yz

This discussion is moot.

Nobody really knows the rhyme or reason of why there is something instead of nothing.

however, lots of people seem to find connections between all these different 'mystical' phenomena that occur under a number of different circumstances....

then there are also people who claim that every single one of those is the product of your brain, your 'biological computer' mashing numbers the wrong way.

I personally think there is a god, but I've given up trying to make sense of what that means; and only because I have more important things to worry about like school, and money, and my future...

 

[Folley]

Do you expect us all to just to abandon our beliefs and doubts and accept everything you say, oh wise man, oh chosen one?

No, he expects you not to be a condescending ass to him just because you believe something different.

If you love being with "Them" so much then piss off and do it. What do you get out of being here with us?

Do what? Kill yourself? Did you seriously just say that? If we are still here on Earth, than we are here for a reason. To play some part in history, to convert someone else... we cannot know in this life, perhaps by posting that quote from a religious text an unregistered user read it and came to some new truth that caused him to completely change his life for the better... who knows.

I don't know how the fuck you can argue with someone around their personal experiences anyways... especially for something as subjective as a psychedelic experience.



If you don't like what he's saying, don't read it, but to talk down to him because of it is a sad thing to do, and only shows how much more you have to learn.

I personally think there is a god, but I've given up trying to make sense of what that means; and only because I have more important things to worry about like school, and money, and my future...

These things are holding you back. They are holding ALL of us back, people in the medieval times were much better off in this regard. Are these things really more important than yourself? Than your own well being?

Sure, they are important in this modern world... but just remember that you can't take it with you, whether you think you're going to rot in a grave or go to a glorious place made by the Creator for his followers to worship him for eternity.

 

[somaeye]

so you're saying the mystical guru that changed so many peoples lives by spiritual means is actually just a person with a very intense OCD neurosis?

Seems like whatever it is that causes people with ocd to be unaffected by Psychedelics is the same mechanism that caused Alpert's guru to also be unaffected. By the way, it was my understanding that he (Alpert's guru) said that LSD was "helpful for meditation".

and people with OCD can't come into contact with god (psychedelics)?

What (Dr.) Stanislov Graf was saying was that it took many extremely large amounts of LSD before ocd patients felt anything. At some point, they did start to feel the LSD like non-ocd patients.

 

[somaeye]

Umm...I have OCD, and I can trip just fine.

The person in the study was said to have "severe" ocd.

More of the details: (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/grof4.htm)

Erwin, a twenty-two-year-old student, was referred to the LSD treatment program after four years of unsuccessful therapy for a severe obsessive-compulsive neurosis. Over the years, he had developed a very complicated system of obsessive thoughts and became so preoccupied with it that it paralyzed all his other activities. He was compelled to imagine in his mind's eye a geometrical structure with two coordinate axes and locate within this system all the problems and duties he encountered in his everyday life. At times he spent many hours desperately trying to find the proper location for some aspect of his existence, but always without success. Before admission, he felt that the center of gravity of his imaginary coordinate system was shifting to the left; this upset him enormously and resulted in feelings of tension, apprehension, anxiety, insecurity, and depression.

 

[lastest]

Do what? Kill yourself? Did you seriously just say that?

No I didn't seriously just say that, in fact I didn't say it at all. Read better. As for the rest of your post, it sounds like the blurb on the back of a Paulo Coelho novel.

 

[SONN]

These things are holding you back. They are holding ALL of us back, people in the medieval times were much better off in this regard. Are these things really more important than yourself? Than your own well being?

Sure, they are important in this modern world... but just remember that you can't take it with you, whether you think you're going to rot in a grave or go to a glorious place made by the Creator for his followers to worship him for eternity.

of course, I should abandon currency and modern society and the life of sin that comes with it..

I have to work on school so I can get my piece of paper that will get me a good job that will provide me with lots of green paper that will ensure my well being. My future is more important than my spirituality at the moment, you're entirely right.

idk if that's holding me back, I know that one day when I have enough money and time I will go to thailand and do the darkroom treatment and see what that has to offer my spiritual exploration.

 

[lastest]

...people in the medieval times were much better off in this regard.

Yeah feudalism was so much better. Surfs knew their place in a society based on the naked display of unlimited hierarchical power therefore didn't have to worry about education, money or the future. That allowed them to think about spirituality and stuff during the moments in their short lives that weren't taken up with backbreaking work.

 

[webbykevin]

^ go stand at the side of the freeway at morning rush hour and look at all the happy joyous blissful smiling faces of people heading into their cubicles for the day, doped to the eyeballs on caffeine and anti stress drugs making barely enough money to make the payments on their negative equity housing loans and their 10 credit cards maxed out with all the un-necessary plastic and chipboard crap they have been conditioned into buying, while the top 1% are choosing which marble to have in the bathrooms of their super yachts, sounds like paradise lol.

When I was a teenager in the 1970s the buzzwords were leisure time, recreation, the 4 day working week that technology was about to offer everyone, what a bunch of crap that turned out to be, at least a middle age serf knew he was a slave, nowadays the con/illusion is much more hidden but so much more psychologically damaging.

Its a sham, a shell game, its one big fucking club and you and me are not in it, nothing has changed, except IQs have dropped, education is a joke, health care is a profit driven corporate monopoly, the media offers lame arsed cliches and infantile irrelevant bullshit designed for 12 year olds and the planet is heading for a brick wall at a million miles an hour. People are oppressed and forbidden by law from any kind of consciousness expanding activities, told to watch sport and soap operas, family values are pathetic, community is a fractured mess and the environment is fucked.

Try and drop out and say you want to play a different game and they lock you up in a mental ward.

You WILL accept their definition of freedom and democracy, or they will shoot you.

 

[lastest]

^ Dude, I'm not saying modern society is good, in fact I agree with your analysis of it completely. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool marxist - I believe that capitalism is a system for generating inequality. But I also think it's spectacularly dumb of Folley to suggest that people were better off or happier in the medieval era. They were every bit as fucked as we are today, just in different ways.

 

[webbykevin]

^ Dude, I'm not saying modern society is good, in fact I agree with your analysis of it completely. In fact I'm a dyed-in-the-wool marxist - I believe that capitalism is a system for generating inequality. I also think it's spectacularly dumb to suggest that people were better off or happier in the medieval era. They were every bit as fucked as we are today, just in different ways.

well put.

 

[!!4iV4HF9R34g]

Know what I think is retarded? Fools who intrinsically reject anything from mainstream religion, especially Christianity.
I don't even believe any of it really, but they're still valid ideas to many many people. And despitr the atrocities through history in the name of religion, I still firmly believe there have been more people helped than hurt.

 

[Folley]

Yeah feudalism was so much better. Surfs knew their place in a society based on the naked display of unlimited hierarchical power therefore didn't have to worry about education, money or the future. That allowed them to think about spirituality and stuff during the moments in their short lives that weren't taken up with backbreaking work.

That is only one area of time... take the French, during their revolution. Thousands were put to death by their "leaders" while they starved and worked for practically no money... but an age of enlightenment and free thought came out of it. This was a bit after "medieval" times, but still..



^ Personally, I think most major religions have been taken off-base by the "powers of evil"... especially the Catholic and Christian churches. Notice that modern Christianity almost worships Jesus alone... sure, he was a great man, but I bet if you would have asked him he would have said to worship his Father, not him.

I'm not so sure about Jesus as a whole though, I mean God and his angels have talked to me... so I worship Him. If everything that is said about Jesus is true, I would be very pleased... but all I know for sure is that there is a God, and I do know for sure.

Either that, or I'm insane... but I feel better about myself and where I am going than I ever have before. I know my place in this life, and that would have never happened without the combination of religion and psychedelics.



Currently, I would say I practice almost a mix of Christianity, Buddhism, a little bit agnostic with a side of Taoism.

 

[webbykevin]

Notice that modern Christianity almost worships Jesus alone... sure, he was a great man, but I bet if you would have asked him he would have said to worship his Father, not him.

I disagree. I think he was saying "you are all manifestations of the divine and you don't need to worship anyone".

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I disagree. I think he was saying "you are all manifestations of the divine and you don't need to worship anyone".

How did you reach that conclusion?

 

[Folley]

Well, then that goes against almost all the other teachings of the Bible... just strengthens my thoughts that his words have been twisted for darker purposes


The Bible says that when we get to Heaven, we will praise and worship God for all of eternity, forever basking in his glory and singing his praises. That's like almost a direct quote out of Revelations haha.... modern Christianity has been saying that Jesus is the ONLY way to get to Heaven...
"I am the Way, the Truth and the Light. The only way to get to the Father is through me" IDK what verse that is, but it's from the Bible...



I think we all agree (at least, those of us who are religious) that Jesus is not the only way to get to the Father... there are many other ways to receive the same knowledge and grace from God. What about a guy stranded in the jungle for all his life? Surely he doesn't go to hell just because he hasn't heard of Jesus.




Religion is really what you make it, it's all smoke and feathers for all we know... so hell, make it your own. Don't follow what anyone tells you, find God for yourself... and if you don't believe in Him, then find out the truth about yourself... the real you, not this fake ass version dressed in designer clothes surrounded by electronics. Psychedelics will tell you what you want to know.. I've always just focused on the spiritual side because I know it may help me after this life.



Get out for a weekend in the woods, away from the world, away from the people. Don't take drugs, just dig into your mind out in nature.... you'll probably be surprised at the kind of progress you can make in your life delving into your psyche without psychedelics

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

"I am the Way, the Truth and the Light. The only way to get to the Father is through me"

That's in the Gospel of John, not gonna look up the exact passage. I don't take that one too seriously, it's the latest of the canonical gospels, I mean there's good stuff to learn from it, but it's pretty much just direct opposition to the Gospel of Thomas (which was very gnostic-look-within-yourself-y).

Really the gospels all just use Jesus and the characters as tools to express the theology of the writer, so you have to take'm with a grain of salt and do some interpreting. (as you yourself do)

 

[webbykevin]

How did you reach that conclusion?

well, I was going to write a full long reply to this but it's Friday night and I'd rather planned on going to Byron Bay for a night partying with the hippies and making music

Also I think the direction this thread has taken is now so far off the main thrust of the discussions and intent of PD that it would be somewhat more suited to philosophy and spirituality forum.

Maybe have a listen to the Alan Watts lecture "Jesus and his religion" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s42V8BGBvTk as he presents some very interesting interpretations of the gospels in a far more articulate way than I ever could.

Also I reiterate that I in no way am insisting that I am right of have all or indeed ANY answers to the subject of religion and peoples relationship with it, I just try and base my own personal position on direct experience and not a bunch old old wives tales, fables and badly translated texts and fear based dogma.

The plainest answer I can give is "I really don't know".but it's fun asking the questions as long as no one takes themselves too seriously.

 

[lastest]

take the French, during their revolution. Thousands were put to death by their "leaders" while they starved and worked for practically no money... but an age of enlightenment and free thought came out of it. This was a bit after "medieval" times, but still.

Just a bit, yeah.

Personally, I think most major religions have been taken off-base by the "powers of evil"... especially the Catholic and Christian churches.

Oh the Catholic and Christian churches, okay.

Notice that modern Christianity almost worships Jesus alone... sure, he was a great man, but I bet if you would have asked him he would have said to worship his Father, not him.

Well, the holy trinity are considered manifestations of a single God in Christianity. It's a monothestic religion after all. And what Jesus said about who to worship is right there in the gospels so you don't need to guess what he'd say if you asked him.

Currently, I would say I practice almost a mix of Christianity, Buddhism, a little bit agnostic with a side of Taoism.

Good for you Paulo. Do me a favour and lay off the enter key. I don't know why you think your posts need to take up more space than other people's, but you only need one line between each paragraph.

Also I reiterate that I in no way am insisting that I am right of have all or indeed ANY answers to the subject of religion and peoples relationship with it, I just try and base my own personal position on direct experience and not a bunch old old wives tales, fables and badly translated texts and fear based dogma.

The plainest answer I can give is "I really don't know".but it's fun asking the questions as long as no one takes themselves too seriously.

^ This. As I said before, I'm not anti-religion or anti-spirituality. And I readily admit that there are things that I don't know and will never know. I have certain views but I'm open to the idea they might be completely wrong, and I like having them challenged. My beef with people like somaeye is that they claim to have a final, definite answer and that everyone that argues with them is either an idiot or a troll.