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If you can pull yourself out of a bad trip...

No..pretty sure if getting out of depression were only a matter of willpower most people would be a *bit* happier.
I don't really get the point of your thread?
 
I usually go into more detail, but I thought I'd let people see just a couple of sentences and come to their own conclusions, and we'd have an interesting discussion.

This is just a thought I had today. I've been depressed for 7 years, but lately it hasn't been so bad. And as I broke down what exactly this negative state of mind was, I realised some things:

1. It got better when I was able to stop hating myself.
2. It got better again when I was able to realise while it happened that the totally nihilistic frame of mind of a low episode will in fact pass, and it isn't an objective view of reality.
3. It got better once again when I finally figured out what I wanted to be, and realised the only way life was ever going to be worth living again was if I changed inside, not if the world changed for me.
4. It could keep getting better if I could program myself out of other negative thought patterns.

With realisation #4, I recalled a recent trip I had on psilocybin mushrooms. Pretty strong, and fraught with ego loss and fear of insanity and death. I've had a couple of bad trips before, and it's like having all those years of depression packed into 6 hours, it's a rollercoaster ride through Hell. This time though, just as I've been able lately to tell myself "It will pass" when the depression gets really bad, I just laid down in bed and rode it out. Didn't handle it expertly, but I managed well enough to survive. And it was all about not succumbing to bad thoughts. It was a rapid multi-tasking dance between all my emotions. I'm not saying I handled it perfectly... but I figure... if I could escape that pit of a bad trip just by willpower, why can't the same be true of depression?
 
Oh, okay. Sorry, your first post really confused me but I get what you meant now. Well, I've thought the same things as you and although I agree it does help a little bit, I've never been able to pull myself out of depression regardless. I think it's because depression goes so much deeper than a simple state of mind, so it's not because you can objectively have more positive thoughts that you can subjectively start seeing the world in a better light (I hope that makes sense).
I've never actually had a bad trip so I don't know about that though.
I was sort of thinking about something similar a few weeks ago: I was wondering if it might be possible to basically shun out reality and create your own perfect world in your mind, where you'd be controlling everything but you'd be able to immerse yourself in it so completely it would actually become your reality. Would make happiness a lot more attainable, wouldn't it.
But I guess that's all wishful thinking.
 
1. Now, if this had been do you think you can stop hating yourself with will power, I'd say yes. You can change some of the aspects of things you hate in yourself, change your demeanour/actions, thus reducing the hate. You can also change your view on the things you hate.
2. There is nothing inherently depressing about Nihilism and I personally think it is much more rational than a lot of other possibilities.
3. Cool?
4. Depression, for me, is an emotional state of affairs that affects your perspective/thoughts. Changing thought patterns does fuck all for my depression.

First off, we have to differentiate between the differences of a hallucinogenic and a dissociative trip. Something I'm not going to go into as drug glorification is against the rules and it may even be triggering?
I think the acceptance, and surrender that one (can) experience during a bad trip is very liberating phenomenon.
When you relinquish all that you've held onto...
The thing with a drug trip is that it will pass quickly. It may not seem like a short amount of time, but you can just experience the bad trip for what it is and have a bit of patience. Even if the knowledge that this is just a drug, that this is ephemeral and will pass quickly, means nothing in this altered state, it is still there.
Depression on the other hand, lacks that. You can lay in your bed for months, just riding it out. Just experiencing it for what it is, waiting for it to pass, and at the end of that period you can be even more depressed.
 
I don't think it's correct to compare the two.

For instance, I know people who can pull themselves out of a bad day by watching a movie or listening to a vinyl or by making a phone call to a friend/relative... but who would totally panic their balls off if they were experiencing a bad trip.

Likewise, someone else may have an uncanny ability to uplift themselves in a "bad trip" scenario, but may otherwise experience chronic depression in their sober realities.

Apples & oranges IMO.
 
While there are certainly things you can do to help yourself with depression,as someone who has suffered major depressive disorder since I was 14, the suggestion that you can just "pull yourself out of it" is insulting.If I could,I would have.
 
OP,

I for one totally agree with you.

If one can gather the knowledge and strength to pull themselves out of a bad trip, what is to stop them from doing the same from depression? In my experience, depression stems from an idea in our heads. More often than not, we are not aware of the cause though. Similar to working yourself out of a bad trip, one can work themselves through the mind to find the cause of depression and ultimately overcome it.
 
Insulting to what, exactly? How?

I think captain heroin made a really good point. I also know some people who would completely loose their shit in a bad trip. I know some people who cry at movies, others who are inspired. Some people are greatly affected by things (improved mood by communicating with family/friends, etc) and yada yada yada. People are different and shit.

Your ability to feel things, such as courage (or strength if you want to imply depression is weakness) is different during a drug trip than it is in sobriety. You're in an altered state, you remove bias' and gain new perspectives, your range of emotion changes, etc.
In a bad trip, there are usually some obvious effects/causes, depending on how you look at it. You're fully experiencing something, let's say the notion that you're dead/dying. Now how you surmount this issue is subjective. But, is the notion that you're dead/dying the effect of a deeper cause, or is that the cause of the turmoil you're experiencing? Either way, you're able to change the effect of that. It's very simple when you compare it to an inability to derive pleasure or meaning from ones existence, for example.
 
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MissNervosa said:
While there are certainly things you can do to help yourself with depression,as someone who has suffered major depressive disorder since I was 14, the suggestion that you can just "pull yourself out of it" is insulting.If I could,I would have.
Click to expand...

have you tried, without medication ?
 
there are some things you can't pull your self out of... its nice to think a person is just weak because they can't get over things but... there is some shit you just can't get over.
 
Now, I wasn't calling anyone weak... I wasn't calling myself weak either. Depression is a clusterfuck labyrinth through Hell; if you can find your way out, then I think it's as much to do with luck as with determination. I'm not surprised that a couple of people found this insulting, but I'm not saying any one of us can simply 'snap out of it' at will. MissNervosa, for me it started around age 15, though it got really bad at 17 and for about a year and a half, I wavered on and off the verge of suicide. But when I had this thought yesterday, my reaction wasn't to take offense. It was: "Hey, what if I've been looking in the wrong places for a cure this whole time?"

Because yes, I'm sick to death of people like my father saying, "It's all in your head. Just stop it."

But then, I've seen people too who've spent years and years feeding the black dog whenever it turns its forlorn gaze on them (wow, poetic). They're not getting any better. All it is, to me, is a trap. A constant thought cycle of, I'm broken, I'm sick, everything is wrong, there's no way out, things were better when I was x years old, I can't cope with this, etc. And I've gone through all that more or less every single day.

It's not weakness, it is sickness. You wouldn't call someone weak because they're not able run a marathon when they're fighting pneumonia. You wouldn't call someone weak if a disease overcame them completely. But I believe this is one illness it's possible to fight.

I don't think that if you CAN pull yourself out of a bad trip, you WILL pull yourself out of depression. But I do think there are distinct similarities to the pattern of negativity feeding off itself. If you can unwind from one, you might be able to use the same techniques to escape the other. I don't expect most people to accept this idea, but maybe it can be food for thought for some of us.
 
I don't think that you can equate the two. A bad trip is usually delusional thoughts or getting stuck in a bad place. Long-term depression is a chemical imbalance or feeling hopeless in your current situation.
 
^ agreed, although they may seem to have similar aspects at times, they're completly different things. IME bad trips are scary and sometimes feel depressed. depression is just plain tough to survive with day after day, it wears you down. depression can take years to recover from, while a trip can only last so long.
 
The concept of pulling oneself out of a bad trip involves turning chemical-induced terror into chemical-induced euphoria.

The concept of pulling oneself out of depression involves turning normal-state depression into normal-state happiness.

Navigating the terror/euphoria spectrum is like driving a jet-ski on the open water. Navigating happiness/depression is like driving an oil tanker. And the drugs are like some type of supercharger on your jet-ski.


I have a few tricks that work pretty good at pulling me out of a bad trip. But they are largely based on the concept of distraction. Trying to apply these to the things that get me down in everyday life would not only be exhausting, but they'd get in the way of me actually doing the uncomfortable but necessary things that drive the depression along anyway.
 
Flickering said:
Now, I wasn't calling anyone weak... I wasn't calling myself weak either. Depression is a clusterfuck labyrinth through Hell; if you can find your way out, then I think it's as much to do with luck as with determination. I'm not surprised that a couple of people found this insulting, but I'm not saying any one of us can simply 'snap out of it' at will. MissNervosa, for me it started around age 15, though it got really bad at 17 and for about a year and a half, I wavered on and off the verge of suicide. But when I had this thought yesterday, my reaction wasn't to take offense. It was: "Hey, what if I've been looking in the wrong places for a cure this whole time?"

Because yes, I'm sick to death of people like my father saying, "It's all in your head. Just stop it."
Click to expand...

I apologise that I snapped,but your original post didn't go into detail,and I've been hearing things like your father has said such as "It's all in your head" and "Just pull your socks up and stop whining" for half my life.I hear these things from people who have no concept of what it's like to suffer the dark bleak depths of depression where you feel like you will never feel pleasure or positivity ever again and wonder whether it's worth it to continue living,as you are barely existing.Yet there are always some know-it-alls who have never been through it who will spout off shit like this,and just think I am weak and lazy,and quite frankly it makes me want to smack them,and hope they end up with depression themselves,so maybe they will see how hard it is and shut the fuck up.

I've had over ten years of various forms of therapy,seen doctors,psychologists,social workers and psychiatrists.I've done yoga,meditation,accupuncture,hypnosis,sports and exercise,altered my diet,taken natural supplements,taken drugs,kept journals and written gratitude lists etc etc.Some of these things were and are helpful,some have done bugger all.

And yes webbykevin I've tried several times without medication, two of those times ended in a suicide attempt,the rest involved violent mood swings,self harm and simply falling apart.

The conclusion,as I came to with my psychiatrist? I have a chemical imbalance,and a ridiculous amount of family history of mental health disorders,so it is likely genetic.My maternal grandmother was bipolar,an alcoholic,had a gambling addiction,was physically and mentally abusive to my mother and had 4 or 5 suicide attempts in her lifetime.My aunt was a paranoid schizophrenic who spent over half her life in institutions.My mother has generalised anxiety disorder and has panic attacks.My father is a rageaholic who is judgemental and demands perfection from his loved ones.My brother has major depressive disorder,generalised anxiety and problems controlling his anger.

So for me,major depressive disorder and panic disorder with agoraphobia is something that I've learned to live with.I take a pro-active role in managing it,and I have good days and bad days.I even have good months,but to simply "pull myself out of it" completely? Not gonna happen unfortunately.

I've had a severley stressful week,so this is the last thing I have to say about it right now as I don't need to upset myself further,but just wanted to clarify a few things.

Have a great weekend peeps <3
 
I find the bad trip thing is more like avoiding a full on anxiety attack when it starts to happen than stopping being depressed.

I find depression to be more or less impossible to pull myself out of the way you can calm yourself down during a trip. The best I can do is to not give in to dark thoughts and sort of coast; I can't just start feeling good right away. In a trip I find things very visceral - I have to focus on my breathing, almost meditate, really work against my fight/flight response.

I haven't had nearly as severe or prolonged depression since I made certain lifestyle changes, but I think that speaks to the nature of my depression rather than my willpower (like you though, I have learned ways of dealing with it when it does happen - but I don't believe that it's the same with everyone and various different kinds of depression that are really beyond my understanding). I also recognize that it's only been 6 months - I could be facing it in the future out of nowhere or due to stress and in that sense I don't think I can really say that I've been pulled out of it.

That said it's good to hear that you have been feeling better though, it is certainly a positive thing that you are better able to deal with how you have been feeling and not hating yourself is an amazing life step no matter what happens after.

And to Miss Nervosa - I totally understand your reaction. I always hated being told it was in my head, or to think of all the other people with bigger problems than mine, or getting yelled at for crying. The original post definitely reminded me of that just a tad, glad to see that was not the point of the thread though. Happy weekend!
 
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some people can get over things others cant. I dunno why. Some people can loose a leg, and keep on going, others fall into depression and drinking and die.

Its weird... im not sure what makes one person strong and another weak... im just saying some people can't pull them selves out of it... some people just can't its just how they are built.

Its just how it works...

BTW there are some trips people can't pull them self out of
 
Like others I was shocked at your original post, anyone who has suffered from this debilitating condition will have asked themselves many times why they are unable to pull themselves out of it.

I see little commonality between being truly depressed and having a psychedelic experience go bad on you, I have used LSD quite heavily in the past, I haven't done so for many years now. My technique for dealing with intense and difficult experiences was to try and fully embrace whatever feelings (I'll call them that in the absence of words to describe such things) I was having, in general the fear , IME is based on death of some kind and letting go of ego and normality was a process that always worked for me.

I think the issue with your original post is around the question of time-scales, some one may well improve there depression over time through such therapies as CBT or maybe some spiritual process but it will take a lot longer than the few hours of a psychedelic experience, years more likely.

If you are quantifying that kind of long term process as "pulling yourself out of it" then I would say yes that is possible, in some cases.
 
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