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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Oxycodone and ”Vin Mariani” (coca leave + wine)

S

snafu

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I plan on consuming a Vin Mariani with Oxycodone soon. I'll be using 90g of coca leaves and a tad less than 1.5 liters of wine to soak them in. I'm considering two 15mg doses of oxy, one dose when I start drinking the Vin Mariani and the other 15mg after I've been feeling the effects for at least an hour or so. Just wondering if there would be any risks to consider with this mixture?

I found an erowid report for the Vin Mariani:
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=51792
 
Vin Mariani is effectively cocaethylene for all intents and purposes. It's a more powerful, addictive drug and more dangerous for your heart than cocaine itself is.

As far as mixing it with oxycodone goes - I'd say as long as you're using safe doses (for you) of oxycodone - you'd be safe. I don't know how much cocaine 90grams of leaves would be equal to (somebody can chime in here) but just take it slow and you'll be good.
 
The person in the report used 75g and he's around my weight, so I figured 90g would be alright.. I have a higher than usual, yet declining cocaine tolerance.
 
this is essentailly a speedball no?
you run a (much) higher risk of sudden death as you're using cocaethylene and ontop of that bombarding with oxy.

i guess it's a question of tolerance to both drugs.

i'd start with less (as the trip reporter did not use a high powered opiate either)

if you don't feel as great increase it gradually... or just wait until another day.

i personally wouldn't jump into that combo too lightly or without proper research/testing beforehand.

tread lightly and carefully in my opinion. i have no experience with vin mariani, considering it's also got alcohol in it - you're adding two CNS depressants ontop of one another as well.
 
It's pretty close to a speedball. A true speedball is generally considered morphine + cocaine or heroin + cocaine. Oxycodone, alcohol and cocaine is closer. Remember also that you're mixing two depressants and one stimulant - just like synthetix said.
 
My tolerance to opiates has been gradually increasing, but not very high. Recreationally, I'd take 25-40mg oxy at once, by itself. I definitely plan on trying the Vin Mariani by itself first.
 
NeighborhoodThreat said:
^That sounds like a better plan - take the oxycodone on the comedown!
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if you wanted the effects of both drugs i'd definitely use at least half your usual dose of oxy, say 10-15mg along with the cocaine mix. personally if i had this in front of me with your tolerance i'd do 10mg and gradually sip on the mixture of vin mariani (slowly) to gauge the effects.

i think this classifies as a speedball tbh, oxy is at the same level as morphine, and this is cocaethylene, regarded it's not IV'ed, but it still may lead to some seriously nasty (and potentially fatal) consequences if taken too far, just be careful with it and you'll be fine. :)

you can always take more, you can never take less. i always live by that if trying out a mix for the first time.

perhaps saving the oxy for the comedown is more wise as stated above, once you have the true feel for the vin mariani, and you can work with that. dependent on the amount of the stuff you have - it's better to establish a base of what a substance does to you on its own for the first time rather than jumping the gun and bombing both at once (again from personal experience) as it usually left me quite.... well, unhealthy.
 
Have you tried coca on its own before? I would definitely try coca tea before Vin Mariani. Coca by itself is safer than coca + alcohol, and coca + oxy is going to be a lot safer than coca + alcohol + oxy. 90g of leaves sounds like a lot to me too. I would suggest starting low and gradually increasing the dose. I don't see a need to do a complicated extraction of the cocaine, I'd just use the coca as is, making a tea is probably best. That would be a lot easier and give less negative side effects (than cocaine). The cocaine content in coca leaves is usually minuscule, but there are a bunch of other alkaloids in coca which add to the effects, which many people prefer to cocaine. The other thing is that it's hard to determine how much cocaine or total alkaloids are present in the leaves because it is highly variable and most studies which give an average are using percentages from fresh leaves, not dried. It's not like you could determine the amount of purified cocaine equivalent to a certain weight of dried coca leaves. Plus street cocaine is never pure so it would still be hard to make a dose conversion. And the other alkaloids present in coca definitely add to the effects.

As for mixing coca with oxycodone, the main danger comes from having the drugs sort of mute each other's effects so you can end up taking more and then when the other drug starts to wear off the effects hit you stronger than expected. Personally I would try each drug on its own first and be conservative with your dosing.
 
synthetix said:
if you wanted the effects of both drugs i'd definitely use at least half your usual dose of oxy, say 10-15mg along with the cocaine mix. personally if i had this in front of me with your tolerance i'd do 10mg and gradually sip on the mixture of vin mariani (slowly) to gauge the effects.

i think this classifies as a speedball tbh, oxy is at the same level as morphine, and this is cocaethylene, regarded it's not IV'ed, but it still may lead to some seriously nasty (and potentially fatal) consequences if taken too far, just be careful with it and you'll be fine. :)

you can always take more, you can never take less. i always live by that if trying out a mix for the first time.

perhaps saving the oxy for the comedown is more wise as stated above, once you have the true feel for the vin mariani, and you can work with that. dependent on the amount of the stuff you have - it's better to establish a base of what a substance does to you on its own for the first time rather than jumping the gun and bombing both at once (again from personal experience) as it usually left me quite.... well, unhealthy.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the speedball thing you are referring to. IVing cocaine is much more potent than drinking it. I don't think this would be a problem at all, I have taken high doses of codeine with high doses of methylphenidate (to the point that I was experiencing paranoia from the mph) and I found the codeine to sinergize nicely with the mph and kill the paranoia.

I'd be more worried about consuming alcohol with the oxy.
 
I my calculations are correct, one 5oz glass of wine will approximately have anywhere from 135mg(best possible coca), 45mg(average coca), or 18mg(weak coca). If you can control yourself then one or two glasses won't be bad. However with cocaine or alcohol it's easy to get carried away, which would be bad.

An oral cocaine/alcohol combo increases the bioavailability and half-life of cocaine, norcocaine levels and half life and the conversion to cocaethylene greatly. I think like 30% is converted to cocaethylene orally, 10% smoked/IV.

Really I've read contradictory studies on whether cocaethylene is really that much more toxic than cocaine. Some say it's not that much more toxic than cocaine. AFAIK norcocaine is more toxic than either; ethanol raises it's levels too.

The real Vin Mariani had 30mg per glass for the European market, 36mg for the USA. Maybe try like 10 grams of coca to get something closer to Vin Mariani?
 
^Yes I believe your calculations are correct. Base cocaine yields are roughly equivalent to 0.5% of the dry leaf weight. If the OP was using 90g leaf in 1.5L of wine (around 50 oz), that would be on average 450mg of cocaine, so a 5oz glass would have ~45mg on average (but can vary like you said). The problem is, like I said above, that there are a bunch of other alkaloids aside from cocaine that add to the effects - at least 18 have been identified so far. And I worry that people will think that 90g is not a lot of coca if it only equals ~450mg cocaine, because they may not be taking into account these other alkaloids and the fact that street cocaine is generally heavily cut. A person might think that they normally take a gram of cocaine over the course of a night so they should use like 200g of coca. But they need to take into account that street cocaine is often only like 10% pure, so 200g of coca would be an extreme amount.

Personally I find coca tea quite strong, but I may be using high quality coca and I have no tolerance. I like the idea of starting with a smaller amount of coca and either just taking the Vin Mariani on its own without the oxy, or making coca tea and avoiding the alcohol if taking it with the oxy.
 
Anoymator said:
I don't know about the speedball thing you are referring to. IVing cocaine is much more potent than drinking it. I don't think this would be a problem at all, I have taken high doses of codeine with high doses of methylphenidate (to the point that I was experiencing paranoia from the mph) and I found the codeine to sinergize nicely with the mph and kill the paranoia.

I'd be more worried about consuming alcohol with the oxy.
Click to expand...

speedball is a mix of a powerful downer e.g. heroin, oxycodone, morphine and a powerful upper e.g methamphetamine, cocaine at the same time.

codeine and methyphenidate is a baby in comparison to the ones i mentioned above. (it is still considered a speedball, but it's by no means in the same league.)

as the OP is using cocaine (a much more powerful stimulant than mph, i think we can agree on) with a high powered downer (oxy) ALONG with another downer, alcohol, the three could cause a fatality if used irresponsibly.

the problem with mixing the two is that is very easy to overdose on one or the other as they appear to cancel out effects - but they also put a huge strain on the heart muscle on their own, as you're essentially contradicting your own self by saying to your body in these terms with the drugs:

i want my CNS system to be stimulated
i also want it to be depressed

this leads to heart arrythmias, and in some cases myocardial infarction as the heart simply cannot balance itself to a stable level.

there are many documented cases of heart attack in speedball users, just due to the strain on the heart.

it doesn't matter if its IV pushed or swallowed - once its in, its in. and there is nothing that can really counter a speedball OD either, even jump starting the heart would put enormous strain on your body as it firstly still has the drugs flowing through it, and could leave you with serious damage (if you manage to survive) - i remember (i think the drummer of guns and roses?) OD'd using a speedball and now has a permanent speech impediment after he was revived (he had a heart attack or a stroke?), so you really do have to be careful.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
okay then.

so it's cocaethlene on its own, plus the alcohol contained within the mix and oxy?
or is the alcohol going to be evaporated from the mix?

thats even more dangerous.

and just because its not IV'ed, doesn't mean that it isn't dangerous to speedball orally.

red bull and alcohol is considered a pseudo-speed ball. i'm sure the people die doing that combo aren't IV'ing it.
 
^^Taking Vin Mariani + oxycodone does not just = cocaethylene + oxy
Vin Mariani + oxycodone = various coca alkaloids + cocaine + alcohol + cocaethylene + oxy

If you drink alcohol and cocaine part of it forms cocaethylene, not all of it. You still have alcohol and cocaine.
 
Sorry to sound dim but is Vin Mariani a slang term or an actual brand? I understand that it used to be a brand but I'd be pretty impressed/happy to find out there was stilll a producer of cocaine wine. Sounds pretty nice.
 
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