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Terence McKenna - Didn't use mushrooms from '88 until he died

i did not know her had brain cancer, its very sad he's gone! no disrespect intended! i still believe he must have had some detrimental health effects from his drug abuse, everyone does, you can't just run around doubling doses etc without doing some damage. he had a good run and has obviously touched many lives, he will live on in our thoughts atleast.

this has indeed turned into a good thread, ismene and webby i respect your posts as they are generally straight up and down without the bs, i respect that.

i also love cassidy, have read much about him, where is this quote from as i don't believe i have come across it before?

ismene in saying that alan watts died as an alcoholic your obviously aware of how cassidy come to an end? :)
 
Quantum Perception said:
And philosophy is the game of arguing "stories". No one story is the truth, but they all can work. Think of Robert Anton Wilson.
Let me ask you, who speaks the truth then?
For I feel everyone you mentioned pitched the truth as they saw it; which is the only way we can deliver it.
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No one speaks the Truth. That's the problem. You can't. You can only point a way to the Truth so other's can realize it themselves. All those I mentioned did not do that.. they gave you their story and what they thought the Truth was. They are mostly dealing with relative truths anyway (apart from Watts, but he was just repeating words). Real Philosophy is about putting yourself into a process of Becoming, it is not about arguing stories or debating words.. that would be academic philosophy.
 
-=SS=- said:
No one speaks the Truth. That's the problem. You can't. You can only point a way to the Truth so other's can realize it themselves. All those I mentioned did not do that.. they gave you their story and what they thought the Truth was. They are mostly dealing with relative truths anyway (apart from Watts, but he was just repeating words). Real Philosophy is about putting yourself into a process of Becoming, it is not about arguing stories or debating words.. that would be academic philosophy.
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But they did tell us to think for ourselves and question authority. Sure they gave us their interpretation, but not without reminding us that they are fallible. I think you need to read into them more because your understanding of them seems to be facile.
 
Quantum Perception said:
But they did tell us to think for ourselves and question authority. Sure they gave us their interpretation, but not without reminding us that they are fallible.
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Yes they did tell us to question, that is true and that is good. I'm not knocking them, all I'm saying is that they made a living by saying what they said.. and that has an impact on the quality of what they said in regards to the truth.

I think you need to read into them more because your understanding of them seems to be facile.
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How can you say that ?, have you even listened to ANY of his talks, jeebus.
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I've listened to days worth of material of all those I mentioned. I still love all of their material. But unless you're critical about it we never make any progress. As for Watts, as someone else said he died an alcoholic and a womanizer.. he talked a lot about non-attachment and Eastern concepts but was unable to actually apply it in his own life beyond just dropping out and living a more simple life. He was like McKenna, he had the gift of gab, but that doesn't mean anything in the end..
 
-=SS=- said:
As for Watts, as someone else said he died an alcoholic and a womanizer.. he talked a lot about non-attachment and Eastern concepts but was unable to actually apply it in his own life beyond just dropping out and living a more simple life. He was like McKenna, he had the gift of gab, but that doesn't mean anything in the end..
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I'm not sure he died a womaniser - he definately died a chronic, desperate alcoholic and was suffering from an all-encompassing desperate depression for the last years of his life. How that affects your thoughts on his "Joy of cosmology" and buddhist way to inner peace is up to you.

Some people are good teachers but arn't too good at applying it in their own lives.
 
Not everyone has both wisdom and the discipline necessary to carry wise ideas out in their actions.

Unless one is saying "do as I do", I feel that even if they live a far from enlightened life, this doesn't discredit ideas they may've had and even stood behind the validity of. Sometimes revelations come in strange packages eh?
 
webbykevin said:
That's like saying because Hendrix died of smack he was a crap guitarist and no one should listen to his music.
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Lmao :D That's an awful analogy! Hendrix wasn't a philosopher or an intellectual, he was a fucking amazing guitar player. He didn't pretend to tell anything, he just played his guitar and people were happy listening to it. Where as Watt's assumed the role of philosopher/guru.. and when you take on that role who/how you are is very important to the integrity of your message. Very important.

thoughtsUnthoughts said:
Unless one is saying "do as I do", I feel that even if they live a far from enlightened life, this doesn't discredit ideas they may've had and even stood behind the validity of. Sometimes revelations come in strange packages eh?
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Sure. I would never say 'don't listen to Alan Watt's because he had a problem with alcohol', or 'don't listen to McKenna because he was tripping balls all the time'. They both served a purpose, for me and for everyone else. They were necessary. It's just when it comes to the Truth we can not afford to be non-critical over the work/message of others.. those who want real answers do not have time to play 'be nice', criticism is necessary.. not to rubbish what these people said but to provide more food for thought.

I'm not sure if I'm making sense or not. Basically I don't hate McKenna or Watt's.. I have hours/days worth of material from both.. but criticism is necessary for growth is what I'm getting at.
 
-=SS=- said:
Where as Watt's assumed the role of philosopher/guru..
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Well that just shows that you have never fucking listened to him, He went to great length to say to people at the beginning of his lectures things like "I am not a guru, I have absolutely nothing to sell, I am not trying to convert you, I am just an entertainer".

And Hendrix was actually a fucking crap guitarist imo.
 
Ripping on Hendrix? Lol
His less common blues recordings are allot more intense guitar playing than the popular hits I'd say
 
No one really understands these substances. Psychedelics have a mind of their own, and are precarious allies. Its funny that they turned on him. I bet he got too cocky. Once you call it your bitch, it burns a warpath through your mind without hesitation.
 
^ Yes they certainly do. And yeah webby he does go to great lengths to say he's not a guru.

Who cares if he was an alcoholic when he died, or even if he lived his entire life as a useless junkie, his philosophy had a voice of it's own. In the end all that matters is how his work carries on.

I only got into his work pretty recently and I find it amazing that a dead person can totally change your life.
Same with McKenna, wouldn't matter to me if his whole life was a complete farce because so is all of society, politics, media and everything else so really what's the difference in the end?

In the big picture I think what shines the most is the result of the existence, not the existence itself.
From my perspective McKenna and Watts are two guys whose words changed my life for the better, as well as many other lives. End of story.

No need to idolise them or treat them as prophets, they're just men who said words. We choose what the words mean to us.
 
amanitadine said:
I find it hilariously misguided what a pedestal certain corners of the psychedelic community put TM on. And that seems to be missing a portion of his whole point. He was a lunatic, albeit a charismatic one adept at public speaking. He wouldn't deny such, and would hopefully find laughable the seriousness which with people take him. I have heard from several reliable sources that he found his schtick, the persona he was paid to play, quite tiresome at times. But hey, it's a job. . .
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I agree. I liked Terrence McKenna's book "The Food of the Gods" but I don't care about the Timewave 2012 theory and all of that. A friend of mine who has taken Ayahuasca in religious ceremonies in the rainforest in a country where people have done that for thousands of years and where it's legal, told me how the people who take Ayahuasca like this find T.McKenna and his brother to be a total joke and how the McKenna brothers did not respect psychedelics like mushrooms and DMT admixtures like Ayahuasca at all. Someone else wrote about Terrence being bitch slapped back by pyschedelics when Terrence thought he could control them completely or "make them his bitch" (which does not happen with drugs) so I guess that is what happened to him.

I guess now that it's 2012 Dennis wants to find a way to keep their brand alive and make money since the universe isn't going to end.
 
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webbykevin said:
Well that just shows that you have never fucking listened to him, He went to great length to say to people at the beginning of his lectures things like "I am not a guru, I have absolutely nothing to sell, I am not trying to convert you, I am just an entertainer".
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So how do we explain the "when you get the message, shoot the telegram boy"? Isn't that trying to preach about psychedelic use?
 
^the telegram boy being watts or psilocybin?

i wouldn't shoot either of them unless i was real hungry (maybe)...and i wouldn't take either of them too seriously, listen and learn sure, bow down and pray too...not so sure...each to their own

^^ il check it out, i hope he didn't write it himself, i read politics of ecstasy and it nearly did my head in :)
 
Flashbacks is about his best book - quite sensible compared to his other books in the 60s.
 
I'm a little bit surprised that Terrence wasn't tripping on mushrooms at all during the nineties, yet still prescribing that people take 5+ grams in silent darkness. That may be good advice for some people, but he shouldn't have left out the fact that he stopped doing this because of a hellishly introspective trip.

Although, to be fair, most psychedelic users have had the introspective trip and know what dose, set, and setting work best for them.

For me personally, one of my very first trips was a deeply introspective one that cut to the bone. It took me years to go anywhere near psychedelics again. I guess Terrence was lucky to only get that sort of trip after a long career of shrooming.

Another thing that bothered me is that Terrence apparently had a low opinion of his fans. I think his principle ideas are incredibly entertaining to listen to and ponder, but I see them as science fiction plots rather than accurate predictions of reality. I would just assume that most people who are Terrence fans do the same.

I'd hate to think that Terrence thought his fans saw him as some sort of truth-speaker, rather than a very well-spoken and entertaining weirdo. Bruce Damer made it seem like this was the case! I find that hard to believe.

Maybe Terrence didn't understand his fans, or why they found him so entertaining.
 
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