Taking opiates before methadone

[lman_15]

I'm getting on methadone tomorrow and I have an appointment at 1pm and am getting a dose the day of. Thing is I have work in the morning so I'm going to have to wait about 4-5 hours from when I wake up till I get my methadone dose. But i usually dose first thing in the morning. Anyways I've been on suboxone before and know with suboxone you can't have opiates in your system because you can get precipitated withdrawal or w.e. It's called. I was wondering if the same thing applies to methadone. If I dose when I wake up can I still take my methadone dose 4-5 hours later or would it be better to hack it out. Just in case it's relevant I take 160mg of oxy a day or 240mg morphine depending on what I can get. Both drugs I ingest orally.

 

[debaser]

Hello, the danger here is overdosing. If I were you I would tough it out and wait if it's only for 4 hours. Not worth the risk. Good luck.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

There is no danger of precipitated withdrawals with methadone, it's just best to either wait a while or tell the clinic when you last used other opioids and what so that they don't give you too much methadone. It would probably be ideal to not take anything, especially nothing long-lasting like an ER/XR med. But if you're going to be doing the drugs 4-5 hours before you arrive at the clinic that should probably be ok, however I would try taking less oxy or morphine than usual though, take the bare minimum, just enough to make the withdrawals bearable. If you feel at all high you should tell the clinic, they are used to people using beforehand and won't judge you. Another reason not to take your usual amount of drugs beforehand is that if you aren't in withdrawals when you take the methadone you won't really know how it affects you, whether the dose is enough, etc.

 

[lman_15]

Thanks for the advice everyone it was very helpful I've made the decision to just hack it out. I took 300mg of morphine yesterday at 4pm and did 2 40's of oxy between 8-12 last night so I'm not feeling high at all this morning just a bit of the residual high which will be gone by time I dose most likely. How many mg of methadone should I expect to be on?

 

['medicine cabinet']

^they will most likely start you out on 30mgs and work you up from there untill you are held

 

[lman_15]

yea man my doc i see for meth is retarded I tell this guy, that I got boys doing half what I do and they're at 80mg a day. He starts me at 20mg, which is retarded and tells me next time I can see him would be Monday, so basically if the dose ain't high enough then I gotta hack out 4 days of feeling like shit, then get bumped and he's only in twice a week so it could take up to 2 weeks to get the dose right with this idiot cuz he will only ever increase my dose by 10mg at a time. So by the end of next week I'll be at 40mg then the following 60mg. My last clinic they had the doc in everyday and when they are adjusting your dose u can come in as many times as u want that day till they get it right.

Also, I asked this guy wtf am I supposed to do if I get sick or it doesn't hold off the withdrawals, he goes "your a smart young kid, figure it out", so if I end up having to take more pills (oxy's) will I feel them, like if I snorted an old 40 wud I feel it or would it get blocked by the methadone?

 

[DeLee]

yea man my doc i see for meth is retarded I tell this guy, that I got boys doing half what I do and they're at 80mg a day. He starts me at 20mg, which is retarded and tells me next time I can see him would be Monday, so basically if the dose ain't high enough then I gotta hack out 4 days of feeling like shit, then get bumped and he's only in twice a week so it could take up to 2 weeks to get the dose right with this idiot cuz he will only ever increase my dose by 10mg at a time. So by the end of next week I'll be at 40mg then the following 60mg. My last clinic they had the doc in everyday and when they are adjusting your dose u can come in as many times as u want that day till they get it right.

Also, I asked this guy wtf am I supposed to do if I get sick or it doesn't hold off the withdrawals, he goes "your a smart young kid, figure it out", so if I end up having to take more pills (oxy's) will I feel them, like if I snorted an old 40 wud I feel it or would it get blocked by the methadone?

Though it is pretty common and safe to start new patients on a low dose of Methadone and slowly work your way up.
Because it happens that people die specially when they try and medicate themselves in the middle of their Dose-adjusting period.
Just bite the bullet, you will eventually get to your stable dose.

It took me a couple of months to get to the dose I am on today (120mg) in the beginning they upped me with 10mgs each week,
then I chose to take it slower, its not fun being on too much meth..
Stay strong! It will get better!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

yea man my doc i see for meth is retarded I tell this guy, that I got boys doing half what I do and they're at 80mg a day.

The reason they are on 80mg a day is not because they actually require 80mg to alleviate the withdrawals from their dope habit, but because 80mg is considered an effective dose to block other opioids (and is also supposed to reduce cravings, although that really varies from person to person). I had a 1-2 gram a day habit of high-quality powder heroin when I first when on methadone and 40-50mg was enough to fully alleviate withdrawals. Are you actually feeling physical withdrawal symptoms right now? If you use other opioids on top of your methadone that will just raise your tolerance, and the fact that you asked whether you would feel the oxy makes me think you are looking for an excuse to get high as opposed to relieving your withdrawal symptoms. The mental addiction can be extremely powerful.

 

[Tommyboy]

yea man my doc i see for meth is retarded I tell this guy, that I got boys doing half what I do and they're at 80mg a day. He starts me at 20mg, which is retarded and tells me next time I can see him would be Monday, so basically if the dose ain't high enough then I gotta hack out 4 days of feeling like shit, then get bumped and he's only in twice a week so it could take up to 2 weeks to get the dose right with this idiot cuz he will only ever increase my dose by 10mg at a time. So by the end of next week I'll be at 40mg then the following 60mg. My last clinic they had the doc in everyday and when they are adjusting your dose u can come in as many times as u want that day till they get it right.

Also, I asked this guy wtf am I supposed to do if I get sick or it doesn't hold off the withdrawals, he goes "your a smart young kid, figure it out", so if I end up having to take more pills (oxy's) will I feel them, like if I snorted an old 40 wud I feel it or would it get blocked by the methadone?

I doubt that you will feel bad for that long if the dose isn't high enough. Plus, if you are in withdrawals when you go there then the 20mg of methadone should at least help alleviate the withdrawal symptoms. If it doesn't, then you would only have a few days of feeling some minor withdrawals, but nothing that bad. You can get by without feeling withdrawals on a pretty small dose compared to what you need to get high so I wouldn't sweat it.

Try to have a more positive attitude towards the process since it's a step (or a 'tool' used) towards your recovery. Being pissed off at the doctor isn't going to do you any good, and if anything it will just make you rationalize supplementing your methadone with other drugs which is never a good thing.

 

[lman_15]

I am actually in withdrawal I was able to wait (yesterday) until my 1pm appointment without
Using and by time I actually say the doc and got my dose it was 4pm at which point my pupils were incredibly dilated and was experiencing hot and cold sweats. I took my dose and waited 3 hours little to no relief then I used 80mg of oxy which is about 1/3 or 1/2 of my daily dose. The doctor down right said if you can't wait he doesn't care if I use and actually expects me to. I'm just frustrated because at my last clinic you can go twice a day to adjust your dose if your not feeling well where as here I gotta wait a full week.

I'm not trying to get high either I'm being honest the 2 days before I went to the clinic I got high and had to take 300mg of morphine and 120 of oxy in one day to get high and the day before that i did 360mg of oxy to get "high" so if I take my meth plus 80mg of oxy that's not to get high that's to get by if I was doing 3-4 80's then yes I am trying to get high

 

[martin33]

yeah i once u get on a high enough dose methadone will block other opiates, for example i was on 120mg of methadone and would shoot like half a gram of dope and id get a rush but then nothing. Id say dont go any higher on the methadone than necessary

 

[lman_15]

I'm actually feeling a lot better today. I woke up in withdrawal not severe but runny nose, RLS, teary eyes and a bit of diarea I snorted half a 40 of oxy in a line to even me out and then took my meth dose an hour later around 11:50 and now I'm feeling good, I'm definitely not high or buzzing but I'm not in withdrawal my Mood is a bit unstable but physically I don't feel sick, I think the issue before was that I was in full blown withdrawal and when I'm in WD it takes more to even me out than when I'm not in WD (if that makes any sense) also I think the meth from the day before is still in my system a bit so even though I took 20mg it's really like 25-30mg is in my system. Anyways my plan as of now is to maintain on as low of a dose as possible for my oxy till my meth dose is adequate I was hoping to do a 40mg pill of oxy a day plus my 20mg of meth then once I get bumped up to 30mg on Monday just take the 30mg and no other opiates. I think this is a realistic plan, I'm just wondering if I can get by on 40mg of oxy and 20mg of meth wud 30mg of meth be equivalent to that? Also, wud it be a big switch to just replace 40mg of oxy with 10mg of meth or is that a realistic switch that I could do with very little discomfort?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Oh, I see, when you posted before and I replied I thought you meant you had already started the methadone at that time, so that's why I was asking if you were actually still feeling physical withdrawals. And the reason I thought you were just trying to get high because you asked if you would feel the oxy - if you're just trying to relieve withdrawals you don't need to feel the oxy, you just need to have it make you feel less sick. You should just try to use as little oxy as possible and gradually decrease your oxy usage. Another thing to bear in mind is that it takes your body and brain a while to adjust to the methadone, so even if you're staying at the same methadone dose for a week the methadone levels in your system will be getting higher and you will be getting used to it. Methadone levels don't peak until you have been taking it for about one week. It also takes a while to mentally adjust to not getting high anymore and just feeling not sick. Sometimes people think their WDs are worse than they are or that they need more methadone simply because they are not high. Switching from 20mg of methadone + 40mg of oxy to 30mg of methadone should be relatively easy. It might take a few days to get used to.

And yes that totally makes sense that if you are in full-blown WDs it takes more drugs to get you well than when you are not in WD or only having slight withdrawals.

 

[Tommyboy]

And yes that totally makes sense that if you are in full-blown WDs it takes more drugs to get you well than when you are not in WD or only having slight withdrawals.

I find the opposite to be true, which is why I find suboxone to work a lot better the longer I wait before dosing. If you aren't that sick then there isn't much room for the symptoms to be alleviated, but if you are in more severe withdrawals then anything should help. I could see the argument for your statement being that the sicker you are the more of the drug will go towards just making you feel better since you would be further from baseline than if you were only in mild withdrawals, so the smaller the gap between sick and baseline the easier it would be to bridge. However, that's not the case for me which is why 10mg of oxycodone will help me a lot more on day 2 of withdrawal than it would on day 1 for example.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I find the opposite to be true, which is why I find suboxone to work a lot better the longer I wait before dosing. If you aren't that sick then there isn't much room for the symptoms to be alleviated, but if you are in more severe withdrawals then anything should help. I could see the argument for your statement being that the sicker you are the more of the drug will go towards just making you feel better since you would be further from baseline than if you were only in mild withdrawals, so the smaller the gap between sick and baseline the easier it would be to bridge. However, that's not the case for me which is why 10mg of oxycodone will help me a lot more on day 2 of withdrawal than it would on day 1 for example.

Interesting, maybe it depends on the drug and on the person. Also we are talking about relief of withdrawals, right, and not feeling euphoria? Because I do find that euphoria-wise being more sick does tend to cause more euphoria with most opioids (aside from methadone), compared to not being sick when I take it. Buprenorphine is an unusual drug, but it's interesting that you found the same thing with oxycodone. With methadone it builds up in your system, so if I go a few days without taking methadone I definitely have to take a higher dose than usual to relieve my withdrawal symptoms. Maybe with a shorter-acting drug your tolerance has already started to go down a bit, and/or you are just so sick that you are happy to have anything even if it doesn't completely alleviate withdrawals. But personally I found that with heroin if I took some heroin before bed I would have to use less in the morning than if I hadn't done any heroin before bed (and was therefore more sick). Like you said, it makes sense that if you are only in mild withdrawals, the gap between sick and baseline would be smaller and therefore take less drug to bridge. So I can't offer an explanation as to why it doesn't work that way for you. Did you find that the effects of the oxy would last a shorter amount of time on day 2?

 

[Tommyboy]

^ The 10mg of oxycodone just made the withdrawals less intense, but if I had taken it on day 1 then I would have been sick 12 hours later. Since I took it on day 2 it just allowed for my withdrawals to be less intense for 24 hours or so. With suboxone if I take it when I first start feeling sick it doesn't work much and I feel sick the next day, but if I take it on day 2 then I can go about 2 full days without experiencing any withdrawal.

I think that it's because my body begins to get sick when it expects the next dose, so if I wait two days then my body adjusts to needing a dose every 2 days, whereas if I dose within 24 hours of my last dose then I'll be sick pretty soon again since my body expects that next dose within 24 hours again.

 

[lman_15]

Thanks for the advice everyone as of now I am going to be taking 40mg of oxy a day plus my 20mg of methadone, once I get switched to 30mg of methadone (this Monday) I'm going to take only what is prescribed I.e. 30mg methadone and then from there on in just relax and increase my dose till both cravings and WD symptoms disappear. I managed to get my hands on some valium which is def going to help make me relaxed and help me sleep well so I'm glad about that but right now I figure the less I do (oxy wise) the more easily it'll be to be just methadone and the more I'll appreciate the increase in dose. Just wondering do you think it wOuld be possible to get my dose upped twice in a week?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Thanks for the advice everyone as of now I am going to be taking 40mg of oxy a day plus my 20mg of methadone, once I get switched to 30mg of methadone (this Monday) I'm going to take only what is prescribed I.e. 30mg methadone and then from there on in just relax and increase my dose till both cravings and WD symptoms disappear. I managed to get my hands on some valium which is def going to help make me relaxed and help me sleep well so I'm glad about that but right now I figure the less I do (oxy wise) the more easily it'll be to be just methadone and the more I'll appreciate the increase in dose. Just wondering do you think it wOuld be possible to get my dose upped twice in a week?

It entirely depends on the doctor and the clinic. You could always ask.
Be careful with the Valium as the methadone may make the Valium a lot stronger.

^ The 10mg of oxycodone just made the withdrawals less intense, but if I had taken it on day 1 then I would have been sick 12 hours later. Since I took it on day 2 it just allowed for my withdrawals to be less intense for 24 hours or so. With suboxone if I take it when I first start feeling sick it doesn't work much and I feel sick the next day, but if I take it on day 2 then I can go about 2 full days without experiencing any withdrawal.

I think that it's because my body begins to get sick when it expects the next dose, so if I wait two days then my body adjusts to needing a dose every 2 days, whereas if I dose within 24 hours of my last dose then I'll be sick pretty soon again since my body expects that next dose within 24 hours again.

Interesting. That would make sense, if it's more about conditioning than pharmacodynamic action.

 

[lman_15]

I'm just wondering would they be able to bumb my meth dose twice in a week I.e. Bump me Monday and Thursday? Cuz yesterday I felt good off the meth for 3-5 hours and then the last 5 hours of my night i felt like shit. I ended up taking 40mg of Valium and I just knocked out. I woke up this morning trembling and shaking and basically having a seizure. My girl told me she dreamt there was am earthquake and woke up and the whole bed was shaking she gave me a Valium and I took a 40mg oxy orally (wish I woulda only taken half that way I'd have something for the rest of the day) but I was feeling so fucked and I can't stand shaking like that. Anyways I'm grabbing my meth does now and I really hope it'll last the day

 

[Swimmingdancer]

There are a number of factors that can make your methadone not last for the full day:
- it takes a while for the methadone in your body to reach peak levels
- it may take a while for your body to get used to taking methadone once every 24 hrs when you have been used to taking drugs multiple times per day
- a lower dose may not last as long (since the amount of time the levels are high enough to keep you un-sick will be shorter)
- sometimes people have unusually fast metabolization of methadone and so the effects don't last as long for them (taking a higher dose or taking it twice a day usually helps)

You will get better as your dose gets higher and stabilizes and you get used to it. As for whether or not you can get your dose raised twice in one week, as I said before, it depends on the doctor and clinic so just ask them.

Try not to take so much Valium. That might have actually made things worse. Seizures are not very common in opioid withdrawal. Are you dependent on benzos or do you have a high tolerance? 40mg Valium per dose sounds like a lot.