Why is living so important, if you aren't doing something of importance while here?

[missmegandelaney]

I think that every person on this planet has a value of importance.
Think about it. You were given life, so many other people could have been born into this world instead of you!
But since you exist, fate will make sure you acomplish whatever it is your on Earth you're here to acomplish.
If you were put on Earth to cheer up someone on a bad day, isn't that still important?
By you simply living, that gives you importance.

 

[missmegandelaney]

It doesn't take much time to arrange a trip to the train tracks mate. It's the most successful suicide method, higher chance of getting the job done than a gun.

Offing yourself is something a coward would do. Things get better, they have to. But they'll never get better if your dead.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

OP: Do you really think your children will care about what job you hold? Sure it will probably cross their minds but it will force them to think.. on the one hand daddy is working a lame job, but on the other hand we see that he loves us very much.. he works a shit job to provide for us. They will end up loving you that much more and will probably turn out better minded people because of it. Don't be afraid to tell the truth (when they're old enough to handle it) about how things really work in the world.. you'll be giving them a huge advantage by telling them the world is full of shit and douchebags.

Even if you had done something "better" in your life, become a success in the terms you believe defines success, would you be happy? Probably.. except for those moments before you fall asleep and your mind reminds you of the stark truth.. your material wealth and "success" does not define what's going on inside. You hear it all the time, rich people and successful people being deeply depressed (aside from the blind/ignorant ones who are delusional in their "happiness").

Your position is obviously bothering you. You are going to die anyway. Why not take the time you have before you die naturally to search for some answers about life? You can't take anything else with you when you die except yourself, so why not find out who you are?

 

[DeathDomokun]

You might like this megan. The odds of your existence doe not inherently bring worth to it.
Are you going to tell me that all of the bad things in the world exist for a reason? I don't mean a rational/cause and effect reason, I mean that little girl born into famine destined to die of starvation deserving the circumstances she was born into. Are all the people who are born to die shortly (relatively speaking) thereafter from horrid circumstances the result of fate? Are the here to accomplish starvation?
Now I don't want to start sounding like the OP here, because he is using this as false evidence in an attempt to express a world view I disagree with, but I'm trying to illustrate that there's no proof in favour of existence being important and worthwhile.
Tell me what proof there is in favour of things getting better? Things change, it does not mean the change will be positive.
Explain how killing yourself is a cowardly act? Existing isn't about courage. Enduring seemingly endless, incessant pain isn't a courageous act.
Suicide is about reaching your limit. Some people have limits that can be exceeded with a single act, others will endure years of suffering before they throw the towel in.
Throwing the towel in. If a boxer is getting beat up, does throwing the towel in make him weak? No. It means the opponent got the better of him, and it is stupid to continue.
Who has thrown away a life that was worth keeping? I can think of instances, but not ones that originate from sincere depression.
If a weight lifter is lifting 200kg, and you add 10kg which makes him fall over, does that make him weak? No. It means that last 10kg pushed him over his limit.
Anyway, the fact someone wants a painless suicide just tells me their emotional pain isn't great enough to warrant a sensible suicide imo.

 

[missmegandelaney]

You might like this megan. The odds of your existence doe not inherently bring worth to it.
Are you going to tell me that all of the bad things in the world exist for a reason? I don't mean a rational/cause and effect reason, I mean that little girl born into famine destined to die of starvation deserving the circumstances she was born into. Are all the people who are born to die shortly (relatively speaking) thereafter from horrid circumstances the result of fate? Are the here to accomplish starvation?
Now I don't want to start sounding like the OP here, because he is using this as false evidence in an attempt to express a world view I disagree with, but I'm trying to illustrate that there's no proof in favour of existence being important and worthwhile.
Tell me what proof there is in favour of things getting better? Things change, it does not mean the change will be positive.
Explain how killing yourself is a cowardly act? Existing isn't about courage. Enduring seemingly endless, incessant pain isn't a courageous act.
Suicide is about reaching your limit. Some people have limits that can be exceeded with a single act, others will endure years of suffering before they throw the towel in.
Throwing the towel in. If a boxer is getting beat up, does throwing the towel in make him weak? No. It means the opponent got the better of him, and it is stupid to continue.
Who has thrown away a life that was worth keeping? I can think of instances, but not ones that originate from sincere depression.
If a weight lifter is lifting 200kg, and you add 10kg which makes him fall over, does that make him weak? No. It means that last 10kg pushed him over his limit.
Anyway, the fact someone wants a painless suicide just tells me their emotional pain isn't great enough to warrant a sensible suicide imo.

Maybe the death of that little girl forced the weeping mother to become a stronger person. That strength helped her deal with the hardships life throws at her. It made her who she is.
I think if you want to kill yourself, things must be so terrible that you feel death would be the best soulution... then it's not my life it'd be yours, do as you please. But before you kill yourself at least try to fix things. Try to get therapy, take your medication. Fight as hard as you possibly can and if you loose at least you put up an effort to win the battle. Plus, if I killed myself i'd hurt so many people around me. They'd be really sad that I chose to do that to myself. When you kill yourself it's not a choice that effects just you. It effects lots of people.

 

[DeathDomokun]

Maybe it will, but that's highly unlikely and the end doesn't justify the means.
I think you need to realise that therapy and medication aren't viable solutions for everyone.
I understand that it will hurt those around you, and if that's enough to stop you then you haven't felt the pain of being suicidal.

 

[Where Wolf?]

Maybe it will, but that's highly unlikely and the end doesn't justify the means.
I think you need to realise that therapy and medication aren't viable solutions for everyone.
I understand that it will hurt those around you, and if that's enough to stop you then you haven't felt the pain of being suicidal.

...'You haven't felt the pain' - no offense, DD, but that's a massive, sweeping generalisation that presumes pretty much omniscient insight into a putative, static human nature. I've felt the pain of suicidal urges my whole life, one attempt on the second comedown that followed my first (excessive) dose of MDXX...then a family suicide taught me an object lesson in the damage done to surviving relatives and friends, and it effectively took away the option. How can you quantify the pain - or any emotion - experienced by others at a distance, if at all?

Durkheim (probably misspelt), the 'father of modern sociology', rejected simplistic determinism after an analysis of suicides: there are no hard, fast rules here, because conditions/situations that trigger or preface suicides in one case, or many cases, were found not to do so in others. I don't think any of us can assume ourselves infallible in gauging what other people have or haven't 'really' felt, whether we're discussing true love, suicide, or even physical pain. Therapy and medications aren't viable solutions for everyone, true: but you don't know what I feel and have felt, any more than I can tell you what you do/can/don't/can't feel. Some say that's the human tragedy - that we can't, in the end, really feel someone else's pain.

 

[DeathDomokun]

First, is static meaning fixed/unchanging?
I mean who said suicidal tendencies were human nature, and static? Not me.
I think if the pain you're experiencing outweighs the combined pain caused by your suicide (not that it's measurable)
Look, I know in times of immense pain my first priorities is not the pain of others, but the pain that is assailing me. Something I'm completely immersed in.
I understand that the pain people experience and the reasons people kill themselves aren't tantamount, it's extremely subjective.
I know everything you've stated, but everything I stated is still valid. For you to commit suicide, there can't be anything stopping you. Hence, if the pain brought to others is enough to stop you from killing yourself, you can't experience the pain that one is in the moment before they attempt to kill themselves. Something I have experienced, and I am talking about my own experience here.
In my experience, every parent is selfish and understands that death is inevitable when they create a new life. Does this mean I don't have sympathy for them? No. It means I don't give them control of my body and life to the utmost extent.
Everything you quoted is that simple. If you disagree, or take offence, there's not much I can do as I'm not going to cater my thoughts in order to appease your ignorance.

 

[otm]

People do all make a difference to each other. It's what happens when we interact. You don't have to be trying to save people/the enviroment or fight for a cause to do that. We make a difference to our families and the people around us on a regular basis.

 

[Where Wolf?]

No, DD, I meant that the proposition 'if thoughts of other people can stop you from killing yourself, you've never really felt suicidal' came across as an absolute rule applying to all human beings, which in turn implies a fixed range of possibilities in human experience and reactions to it. You don't know what I feel, I don't know what you feel, and our capacity for understanding one another is limited by the unfortunate reality of having only one pair of eyes, one brain, one self. That's all: I shouldn't have used the word 'arrogance', but telling other people what they have/haven't felt with such a tone of certainty just doesn't make sense to me. You cannot know for certain the extent and subjective reality of other people's emotions, nor what might/might not pull someone back from suicidal intentions. All I was objecting to was the absolutist tone of 'you've never felt.' I don't, can't (unless I presume myself a 100% reliable telepath/empath, and I'm highly sceptical regarding the possibility of actual telepathy), know what someone else feels as they feel it, and I certainly can't tell them what they do or don't feel. Your post, DD, just read to me as if you were making a truth-claim of objective knowledge regarding the most intensely subjective mode of experience. 'You've never felt...' How could anyone know that about anyone, for certain? It just seemed dismissive, and like Erowid says, you can't dismiss the experiences of others - I mean, sure, you can, and at times we all do, but a certain healthy scepticism about the possible/probable, and, in this case, I'd argue, inevitable, limits of our insight into other people's minds is a necessary precaution for achieving any real empathy. The only certainty, when dealing with others, is uncertainty - we're not them, we don't know what they have experienced, or can experience, subjectively.

That aside, sorry, the tone of my post was inappropriate, and we shouldn't be butting heads in this forum: I'm antsy on a benzo taper, and it's 5.5 hours till I can take my next dose, so I'm irritable and unbalanced at the moment. And no, you don't need to cater anything to my ignorance, or MY arrogance, so please forgive the objectionable tone of that last post. In fact, I'll edit it, 'cos I came off as something as an asshole, and I don't want to hijack this thread with my admittedly pitiful attempts at philosophical speculation.

Shalom/Salaam/Peace.

 

[sleepwalker]

Thanks for listening everyone! This has literally been on my mind for years but of course people I'm close to would think I'm a complete lunatic if I told them half of this. Feels good getting this out.

p.s. Watching the olympics earlier today and Watching Gabby become the first African American to win all around womens gold. So tired of people on my facebook. THANK GOD, GOD BLESSED HER! GOD THIS AND THAT. Yea, but god didn't bless the poor girl in tampa who was raped and murderd but he finds importance in making sure a 16 year old can flip around like a Marvel comics hero. Hard ass work from the age of 3 did that! Humans are so brainwashed!

Good to let those things out.
But God is not controlling this world anymore, his adversary satan is the father of this world.
People have been given their own choise to do good, and make something of their lives.
And be gratefull for the things given to them.
Or not...
But i do aggree that the suicidal dad, has a bigger chance to have created a suicidal kid.
You're an example for them, but kids don't care what job you work!
I've been a freaking Surgeons assistant, and after screwing that up myself, i find myself working in a factory, doing a job any monkey could do.
But that's not what makes my life worth living or not.
It's allways in the future you still have, to a fullness of years.
Changes are gonna come, and if life sucks bad, be glad, things can only go up from there.
Don't give up on life, the future can and will allways be brighter, if you hold on!

Hold on,bro!

 

[DeathDomokun]

All good man, I didn't take any offence. All I'm saying is, here
For example, you wouldn't say you know what it's like to be raped if you haven't been raped, would you? Now how getting raped felt, is completely subjective, but it's actually having experienced the act that I'm talking about, not some objective/standard reaction.
All I'm saying is, although you can desire to kill yourself, you don't know what it feels like to be pushed over the edge until you've actually tried to do it.
That's all I'm saying.
Best of luck with getting of the benzos.

 

[herbavore]

OP: You are going to die anyway. Why not take the time you have before you die naturally to search for some answers about life? You can't take anything else with you when you die except yourself, so why not find out who you are?

I think that this is worth thinking about. No matter what you believe or hope comes next after this life, in this life you are you and that "you" is your clay to work with to fashion whatever meaning you care to come up with. Experiencing the helplessness when a person that you love deeply kills him/herself, or dies due to risky behavior in their despair, is a hell all its own. Learning to live with that has given me a new perspective on all pain. We do have choices. We have choices about how we will live our lives, who we want to be and where we will put our energy. We also have choices about pain. We fool ourselves into helplessness when we are not helpless and fool ourselves that we have control in the areas where we don't! It's not simple, this being human.

 

[lilmizer]

@ op. You are, very simply, an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. I get it. Been there. You're a slave to the past, and terrified of the future. You are appallingly lacking in gratitude. Rather then take some action to change your situation, you just steam with frustration about your mundane/trivial existence. You have a subversive air of entitlement, and a gross lack of accountability. You've constructed this version of self in your psyche that will keep you exactly where you are, miserable, perpetually.

there's no way for me to break through the multitude of mental blocks/barriers you have constructed in your mind with rational discussion, so i'm not going to waste my time. all i can say is i understand where you're coming from, because i once thought similarly to you. the only catalyst for change was enough pain to break through the ego/fear complex that i (unknowingly) had built deep within my psyche. I assume the same will be the case for you...and perhaps your posting to this message board is a gigantic first step towards finding some peace and contentment in your life.

i leave you with this -

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation”-h. spencer

i'd read the power of now by eckhart tolle. if you're ready to loose yourself from your self-imposed bonds.

 

[michael]

Just read my post man, I'd pretty much feel like an embarrasment living the life I live raising my kids. This isn't how I want them to see me!

i can really empathize with you - i am in a similar place except i have no kids. the problem is that you are projecting how you feel about yourself on to them - and if you're that embarrassed about what you do for a living, what are you doing to improve it?

i could tell you why i am not trying to improve my lot in life right now, and i can also tell you that there are many but but buts and excuses (some of them good ones!) involved.

 

[xxsicknessxx]

a 9mm is just as likely to put you in the hospital with permanent brain damage then kill you for your info. Also think of where that bullet might fly, think of if you live in a apartment like you say and it goes through the wall and hits someone who is just going about there life. You might wound your self and kill another. A gun is a serious thing don't joke around about it. If you want to kill your self do something that won't fail. There are lots of REAL ways to kill your self. Then there is just trying to get attention.

Anyways... Don't kill your self. sounds like you got a good life. Be nice to others, recycle, and raise your kids to be good people. That is the best way you can change the world. Is through your kids. Otherwise they will grow up to be just like you.

Only way to change things is to just change things. Just do it. Small things add up over a life time. Be nice to one person a day. Every day Every year. It add's up thats 1000's of nice things your doing adding up and adding up. The same goes for bad things. Do a lot of bad things every day every year and it add's up.

So just .... dunno... except what life is, and stay alive for your kids..

Killing your self isn't a cowards way out IMO however don't blow your brains out, (fail) then kill someone in the next apartment because your stupid. That is fucked up and then your kids live with the fact that you killed someone... I mean... don't involve other people in your problems. That is why the world is so shitty IMO again.

People drag others down with there shit. suck it up buddy !! The ripple effect. Do good.. good with come back on you and your children, do bad and so forth.

God... hmm... Karma is real thats for sure... as for god I dunno. I think god lets us make what we will of things maybe hes waiting once were dead but if you believe in god and kill your self your going to hell.... soo.. maybe clear up what you really think about things because you contradict your self a lot.

(if you can't read my text do to grammar and spelling that sucks... just ignore it)

 

[psood0nym]

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation”-h. spencer

This is worth posting twice. I also mostly agree with the rest of what lilmizer had to say.

Seriously examine your definition of "importance". You've connected importance with your socioeconomic position, a contrivance of economics and history that necessitates that some segment of the population play the role you do. If your level of importance was accepted universally as a totally convincing reason to commit suicide then everyone at that level of importance would kill themselves. With all those unimportant people dead, who's left? The more important people? Well, they're not so important anymore because now they have to fill the role of all those unimportant people who blew their brains out the other day. So they better kill themselves, too, and on and on until everyone's dead. Ludicrous you say? Exactly. Now tell me in depth how your attitude doesn't entail it.

You've realized you're your own worst enemy only on the most superficial and unexamined level, and you're afraid to dig deeper. Maybe you think, "you're right, I can't dig deeper, that's why I'm a piece of shit who shouldn't be alive." Let's see how much you believe that. Hold your breath until you pass out. Can you? If not, you haven't even come close to giving up. You're capable of doing far more, becoming a better person, and finding contentment and self respect (and I don't even remotely mean getting a better job or being perceived as "important"). You're in a stage of personal growth and what you are feeling are the pangs of that growth. You've seen it before as a child growing past other children; now is different, much different, but in the end the same.

 

[cire113]

@ op. You are, very simply, an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. I get it. Been there. You're a slave to the past, and terrified of the future. You are appallingly lacking in gratitude. Rather then take some action to change your situation, you just steam with frustration about your mundane/trivial existence. You have a subversive air of entitlement, and a gross lack of accountability. You've constructed this version of self in your psyche that will keep you exactly where you are, miserable, perpetually.

there's no way for me to break through the multitude of mental blocks/barriers you have constructed in your mind with rational discussion, so i'm not going to waste my time. all i can say is i understand where you're coming from, because i once thought similarly to you. the only catalyst for change was enough pain to break through the ego/fear complex that i (unknowingly) had built deep within my psyche. I assume the same will be the case for you...and perhaps your posting to this message board is a gigantic first step towards finding some peace and contentment in your life.

i leave you with this -

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation”-h. spencer

i'd read the power of now by eckhart tolle. if you're ready to loose yourself from your self-imposed bonds.

this is absolutely spot on... i could not have said it any better... Wow !!