Codeine & CWE Megathread: Version II - [insert witty title]

[Sustanon]

it does kick in, it's just not absorbed as efficiently. your enzymes simply don't go on strike and say "nope, not processing this codeine, i'm too packed full of the lamb mum served up for lunch"

as footscrazy said, the effects will be dimished in comparison to that os dosing on an empty stomach.

Hmmm maybe its me but I never really feel it when I have eaten. I tend to eat as much as 2-3 people so yeah LOL May feel some minimal effects but nothing really worth noting :S Its not the enzymes its because it isnt being absorbed in one go and as we know codeine needs to be used in one dosage as time goes by tolerance sets in and it wont work too well at all. Its one of those drugs that needs to be taken at once to get maximum benefits and re-dosing is wasteful.

 

[Ashley]

As most of you know I have no longer been on opioid replacement therapy (ORT) since late May / early April and since then I have still been using, albeit in a much more controlled fashion. .25g twice a fortnight, buprenorphine when I can get it, and for the first time in my opiate career, codeine by means of a cold water extraction. Recently, I feel as though I have sunken to a new low - I will wander into the pharmacy and purchase a packet of 30 count box of Panafen Plus (12.8mg codeine / 200mg ibuprofen) which equates to 384mg, not taking into account any losses through filtration. Then I will purchase a cheap coffee mug, a cold bottle of water and generally lift a pair of underwear (for filtration). After this, I'll rush off to the disabled toilet, ensuring it is locked, and like the junkie that I am, shakily and hurriedly, prepare to extract and filter the codeine into a drinkable solution. This ~384mg codeine phosphate surprisingly works quite well at keeping my withdrawals at bay and I usually get about 12-16 hours out of it before I start getting sore and restless again.

Now, I have done this many times when having a shot but something about doing a CWE on the sly in a public bathroom seems to be a bit much. Though, I guess when you're hanging out, you're hanging out!

Ash.

 

[tyrael]

As most of you know I have no longer been on opioid replacement therapy (ORT) since late May / early April and since then I have still been using, albeit in a much more controlled fashion......Recently, I feel as though I have sunken to a new low.....but something about doing a CWE on the sly in a public bathroom seems to be a bit much....

"controlled", famous last words? Maybe if you're using again it is time to go back on a ORT program? I realise some people take do what you're doing and keep it sensible, and even titrate their dose and work their own program. Re: "new low", I've (and again I'm sure others here) can been there too.

All I can say is keep it in check brother. Well all know how easy, and quickly, it can get out of control. And of course the other BL'ers here to help!

 

[Ashley]

"controlled", famous last words? Maybe if you're using again it is time to go back on a ORT program? I realise some people take do what you're doing and keep it sensible, and even titrate their dose and work their own program. Re: "new low", I've (and again I'm sure others here) can been there too.

All I can say is keep it in check brother. Well all know how easy, and quickly, it can get out of control. And of course the other BL'ers here to help!

Thanks tyrael, you're tops.

I just recently picked up 16mg of Suboxone and used it over the last 4-5 days and I feel much better, much more stable. I have been debating going back on maintenance again (even thinking about methadone instead of bupe) but I swore I would never go back on ORT again. I lost 3 years of my life as an emotionless zombie, unable to think or experience emotion - though perhaps my dose 32mg/daily of Subutex was a tad high.

I have been put on the waiting list at my local clinic and they advised me there are 7 people ahead of me and they've been waiting 8 months! I was a patient at this clinic for over 3 years and have only been off maintenance 4 months or so! Give me a break. So MACS tell me there are no GP's in my area that can prescribe buprenorphine or methadone. In the end the Drug & Alcohol Intake Number suggested I see Dr. Quack, who I have seen and is non judgmental and seems like a nice doctor. Though tight when it comes to benzodiazepines, though I wonder because my old doctor worked at the same medical practice (hence the my records would show up in Medical Director) prior to retiring. Hopefuly this new Dr. Quack, who I have seen before for a surgery, anti-depressants, IIRC.

Anyway, my point being I can't wait the best of a year waiting for a place at the methadone clinic. I hope this doctor can expedite a prescription and get me dosed within a reasonable timeframe (i.e. 72 hours tops). Firstly, I cannot afford to continue using heroin if I want to get anywhere. Secondly, I can't afford it - certainly not with today's prices and average quality.

Ash.

 

[Dr Phibes]

A funny thing happened on the way back from the chemist with my 24 pack of 15/500 (I prefer the para based cuz it comes out clear not milky as stated above) I stopped at another chemist that I hadn't visited for awhile due to filling in your name etc. Don't care just tend to miss them for a few weeks. They asked no questions at all, no paper work, and gave me a generic 40 pack of 15/500.

I didn't think 40 was legal?

I made some comment about how long they would last me and she responded with "we sell out of these really quickly", genuinely ignorant.

Is it legal? (and what am i going to do with all these pills )

 

[Ashley]

Is it legal? (and what am i going to do with all these pills )

It seems to be up to the pharmacist on duty, sometimes I have had a cashier just sell them to me; no questions asked. Sometimes they tell you that the pharmacist needs to approve it (and the pharmacist comes and asks you if you have taken them before, if you have any stomach reflux issues, if you are currently taking any other medication and advises not to take any more than 6 tablets per day). I have only been asked to display ID on one occasion, as if I was buying pseudoephedrine! Most employees hand them over no questions asked, without having to check with the pharmacist on duty, though sometimes they will try and sell you the 15 count packet instead of the 30 count packet. Also, they're only supposed to sell one 30 count packet per person.

I tend to find the more remotely located and smaller the pharmacy is, the more likely they will throw as many packets at you as you ask for, as they just want the business. It's the busier pharmacies that tend to get all self-righteous and turn the purchase of a box a tablets containing ibuprofen and codeine phosphate into a mountain climbing expedition.

 

[Dr Phibes]

Hi Ashley. The legality thing I was wondering about was the amount of codeine. As you said they can only sell you one 30 count per person, that would apply to 12.8's and the max 15's are 24. A 40 pack of 15's I thought was illegal.

As for you being put on a waiting list like that for a maintenance program is bizarre. Its not like the under funding of elective surgery. Surely they have plenty of 'done. I can't understand that.
"Hey doc, help me, I want to stop using".
"Well come and see me in a year or two and I'll see what I can do".

 

[dais]

As for you being put on a waiting list like that for a maintenance program is bizarre.

unfortunately it's not that uncommon if you're outside a metropolitan area. they're usually government based programs, too.

 

[indybreaker]

is tere a way to get rid of the itchiness, last night i was uncrontrolably itchy, my skin was red raw all over, ended up throwing up towards the end!

 

[Captain Brewster]

^ I use periactin, as a potentiator and anti-itch (due to it being a sedating antihistamine), it also helps with nausea (probably the reason you spewed). There's a few others that different people use, just have a look back through this thread.

 

[footscrazy]

^ haha yep, this thread is pretty much the same list of about 4 or 5 questions being asked over and over

As far as anti histamines go, people also use dimenhydrinate (travacalm), doxylamine (restavit), or promethazine (phenergan). If you're using phenergan, I'd take it after dosing your codeine as it may inhibit the conversion to morphine and thus your high, though some people seem to have success using phenergan before their dose.

That goes for the 40 pack of 15mg pills too - this has been covered a few times here. They've gotten around the legislation because they're not allowed to have more than 12mg of codeine in each pill - but that's codeine by itself, not codeine phosphate (which is what you'll find the packs contain). Thus, when the phosphate is subtracted, there's still less than 12mg of codeine per pill.

Here, Mr Blonde explains it well:

Here is the entry for codeine (S3) in the SUSMP:


CODEINE when:
(a) not combined with any other opiate substance;
(b) compounded with one or more other therapeutically active substances, of which not more
than one is an analgesic substance:
(i) in divided preparations containing 12 mg or less of codeine per dosage unit; or
(ii) in undivided preparations containing 0.25 per cent or less of codeine;
(c) labelled with a recommended daily dose not exceeding 100 mg of codeine; and
(d) in packs containing not more than 5 days of supply at the maximum dose recommended
on the label,
except when included in Schedule 2.

Emphasis mine. Ok, so it says 12mg of codeine per tablet; have a look at the nearest packet of pain tablets (like me, I assume you have plenty at hand) and have a look at the ingredients listed. Codeine phosphate and paracetamol/ibuprofen.

The codeine is ionically bound to the phosphate anion (so it is present as a salt). Note that the SUSMP doesn't specify 12mg of codeine as a salt, just 12mg of codeine itself. So these new Mydol have 15mg of codeine phosphate per tablet, however if you subtract the weight of the phosphate you end up with less then 12mg codeine per tablet, and it is still a 5 day supply. This same principle is why Nurofen + can have 12.8mg per tablet, I just didn't really think about that before because it was only .8mg over.

Does that make sense? I can do the math to figure out the exact codeine content if anyone is interested.

Also, regarding the two boxes, the schedule doesn't say that pharmacies can't sell two boxes just that packets can only have a 5 day supply. Most pharmacies won't sell you two at once, however it depends on the pharmacist and I have a friend who can sometimes charm his way into getting two big packets and a big bottle of Rikodeine. :D

 

[Sonny Jim]

is tere a way to get rid of the itchiness, last night i was uncrontrolably itchy, my skin was red raw all over, ended up throwing up towards the end!

it depends on what you mean by itching. Let me explain

Opiates in general as a matter of their normal effect in the body cause a histamine release which causes itching all over the body

Codeine also causes this normal opiate histamine itching but when taken at doses high enough it floods the liver and a significant amount of un-metabolised codeine spills leaks into the blood. This cause a different much more powerful histamine reaction which is not normal and not OK. When un-metabolised codeine enters the blood stream it causes a massive histamine reaction that is so big it is toxic and potentially lethal.

From what you have written (red raw rash) it sounds like you have taken a dose that was simply to high and have gotten that bad type of histamine itch I just described. The lower dose non toxic itch can indeed be combated by, you guessed it, anti-histamines. Well, kind of because I find it doesn't work that well but lots of people say it does work to a worthwhile extent.

I think it is better to just learn what dose it takes for you personally to develop the nasty toxic reaction itch that results in hives, welts, rash and an itch so bad it hurts. My god it's an insane feeling! Staying under this dose shouldn't be that hard once you realise that taking too much codeine does not result in heavy nod, it's a nasty frantic but woosy feeling and most of the euphoria get destroyed.

That is what the ceiling dose of codeine is all about in practical terms. Doses above what the liver can handle result in a situation that is similar to injecting codeine straight into the blood, just less lethal due to it being a slower injection. Obviously the ceiling dose is different for everyone and seems to vary at times even in an individual.

 

[dais]

"controlled", famous last words? Maybe if you're using again it is time to go back on a ORT program? I realise some people take do what you're doing and keep it sensible, and even titrate their dose and work their own program. Re: "new low", I've (and again I'm sure others here) can been there too.

All I can say is keep it in check brother. Well all know how easy, and quickly, it can get out of control. And of course the other BL'ers here to help!

they can be famous last words, but we're indestructible blers. i'm still getting high on average once or twice a week from my script while still keeping pain levels in check and sustaining a proper lifestyle. sometimes i'll have someone from my family speak up or a friend to keep guiding me along the right path if they see i've taken a little too much. it's the user who pays the ultimate price of losing out in the end.

do you see a GP or counsellor at all, ashley? friends or family to talk about using?

if you find yourself getting out of control feel free to hit up one of us in here, we're here for support. there are also a number or counselling lines listed.

 

[indybreaker]

Thanks Sonny Jim

 

[indybreaker]

Also bair in mind, a strong word of advice to anyone, DRINK PLENTY OF WATER!! I almost smashed my head on the toilet many times last night whilst chucking my guts from passing out

 

[Ashley]

You would not believe I just knocked over a cup of cold water containing 30 tablets containing 12.8mg codeine each, who gives a fuck about the ibuprofen. I soaked it up with a t-shirt and used that to filter it but man..

Ash.

 

[footscrazy]

That's the worst. I'm always paranoid I'll do that but I haven't had a bad spill yet. It'll probably happen when I've spent the last of my money buying the box, haha.

The feeling of drugs going to waste is just bad. A day or two ago I looked around and the cat was drinking my pst. He looked up and it was dripping from his lips. But, as much as I felt grossed out to drink it (the cat has terrible breath), I was not letting it go to waste %)

 

[Ashley]

Pesky felines.

 

[dais]

junkies, the lot of you

 

[gimpan]

I suppose you could say it was 'panda' monium*.

* coz of the pandas.

One of the chemists I go to has a shrink wrapped carton of approximatly 60 boxes of panadiene forte all most within arems reach. So sexy.