Tricyclics + stimulants?

[MissNervosa]

Ok so,at the moment I'm on 100mg of Amitriptyline for depression,up to 4mg a day of Xanax for anxiety,and 50mg Solian (amisupride) as a mood brightener/dopamine agonist.
I was a total speed freak for 2-3 years but have been clean for about 5 years now.

Perhaps this sounds ridiculous,but I have a rental inspection in 10 days,and the Amitriptyline makes me so tired and lethargic I can barely get out of bed most days,let alone do the kind of hardcore cleaning I need to do.

I've recently stumbled across a pre workout supplement that currently has several lawsuits against it alleging it contains amphetamines.For me,it feels and works exactly like amphetamines (kind of like adderall and provigil combined).Combining the supplement and the dopamine agonist will have me full of energy and intensely motivated for around 6 hours,and allows me to clean hard in that time.The problem being,I'm exhausted the next day,my body is sore and I have a bit of anxiety and need a day off to rest.

From some basic research,I've found amphetamines can increase the effects of tricyclics,so I'm wondering if that may be one of the reasons I'm so exhausted the next day?

Obviously I should ask my doctor this,but he is away for 2 weeks,so I'll ask here.Does anyone have experience with tricyclics and stimulants? And since it's only for 10 days,should I decrease my Amitriptyline dose down to about 25mg to combat the fatigue?

I usually take Xanax to come down a bit from the supplement and get a decent nights sleep,but are there other things I should be doing if I want to take stimulants for 10 straight days to keep my body and mind healthy? Like increasing protein,vitamins,hot baths and stretching?

I know this all sounds slightly retarded and very noob of me,but if anyone could point me in the right direction,I'd appreciate it.I can't afford to have a day off between stim use right now. Thanks in advance :D

 

[Interdrummer]

Some tricyclics can block amphetamine effects, but not very much. I take nortriptyline and vyvanse and haven't noticed any interactions.
eat protein foods, they have aminoacids such as L-tyrosine and L-phenylalanine, precursors for dopamine and norepinephrine.
what supplement is this? I doubt it has any amphetamine. Probably it's ephedrine or synephrine.

and Amisupride is an antipsychotic and a dopamine ANTagonist.

 

[MissNervosa]

Thanks Interdrummer I didn't take the Amitriptyline last night,and felt very anxious all day,even with Xanax (before I took the supplement),so won't be trying that again.

I've been drinking protein shakes and loading up on protein rich foods anyway,as for some reason I'm craving more protein atm,so that's good to know.

The supplement is DS Craze (sorry mods if I'm not allowed to name it).It definitely doesn't have ephedrine in it,that shit makes me feel awful.There's a lot of talk of the ingredients list being a bit vague and not naming everything in it.I'm sure it doesn't have actual amphetamine in it,but there's talk of an amphetamine analog in it.Whatever it is,the point is it affects my mind and body very much like amphetamines,and if I go over the 2 scoop limit (which I often do),I have a comedown.I'm also building tolerance to it pretty fast.

Oh and Amisulpride is generally used as an atypical antipsychotic to treat psychosis,schizophrenia and manic symptoms of bipolar patients,and is a dopamine antagonist at doses of 400-1200mg.But interestingly enough, at doses of 50-200mg it becomes a dopamine agonist.It took me a long time to stumble across that,no doubt because it's not approved in the U.S.My psych had actually never heard of it,but was willing to prescribe it,and it's very nice as an add on treatment

 

[THC2LSD]

Tricyclics do not block amphetamines. Quite the opposite, they increase the levels of amphetamines in the brain. Desipramine and protriptyline are proven to do this, it's suspected that others can too. They're also the most stimulating tricyclics, especially protriptyline.

I've never heard of anyone using tricyclics as potentiators, however it might not be a good idea. Many tricyclics are hard on the heart, especially amitriptyline. Amphetamines are also hard on the heart.

The physicians desk reference does mention using a tricyclic amphetamine combo to treat depression. Well, not sure if it still does.

 

[Interdrummer]

Recreational Drug Interactions
"Amphetamines (Methamphetamine, Adderall, Dexedrine), Ritalin (methylphenidate), Cocaine, 4-MAR (4-methylaminorex, sometimes called 'ice' or 'euphoria')
As with MDMA above, many people find that while they are on a TCA, they do not experience the full effects of these stimulants. However, you WILL still be able to get fairly high from these drugs; the impact of the TCA on your high will not be that great. The only danger here is the same as the danger above with MDMA; possible cardiovascular complications. If you combine stimulants and a TCA, watch your dosage and pay attention to any cardiovascular effects that seem unusual or disturbing." http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/108959-Antidepressants-and-Recreational-Drugs-(long!)

That's all from users experiences, so I don't think it's good source. Anyway, I would like to know how TCA's could potentiate amp's and where did you get this information?

 

[Interdrummer]

MissNervosa I feel that nortryptiline sedates me too. which sucks cause my depression is in fact a lack of motivation and energy. My psych said it would help that but I don't think so.

 

[THC2LSD]

Antidepressants, tricyclic

-Amphetamines may enhance the activity of tricyclic or sympathomimetic agents; d-amphetamine with desipramine or protriptyline and possibly other tricyclics cause striking and sustained increases in the concentration of d-amphetamine in the brain; cardiovascular effects can be potentiated.

http://www.rxlist.com/adderall-drug/side-effects-interactions.htm

Strangely I've never heard of anyone use desipramine or protriptyline as a potentiator. Howvere protriptyline is a strong stimulant and kind of hard on the heart, not as bad as amitriptyline AFAIK. Desipramine is one of the more stimulating tricyclics, but relatively not that hard on the heart AFAIK. Don't know if protriptyline is even half-way recreational though.

Kind of off topic, but in that thread that says prescription MAOIs block psychedelics, I strongly suspect that it's because phenelzine and many other MAOIs also have strong depressant effects. Many work on GABA too. I suspect that something like Tranylcypromine might work, though it's got some amphtamine-like effects than might alter the trip. They've even had cases of addiction from Tranylcypromine.

 

[MissNervosa]

Thanks for the insights guys

MissNervosa I feel that nortryptiline sedates me too. which sucks cause my depression is in fact a lack of motivation and energy. My psych said it would help that but I don't think so.

^ This ^ is just like me.My psych claims amitriptyline is one of the best antidepressants around for my major depressive disorder,but like you it sedates the hell out of me,and my depression symptoms are hypersomnia,lethargy,no motivation and overeating (and amitriptyline increases most ppls appetite).I think I'm gonna read up on . desipramine and protriptyline and more stimulating meds and talk to my psych about switching.

As for the stim like supplement,I'm taking it every second day now with added caffeine and a little extra amisulpride (which goes with it very nicely as a dopamine agonist),going hard for 12 hours,then having the next day off to recover.I'm going to try and postpone my rental inspection for a week,as taking it every day was making me exhausted and achey all over.

I've upped my protein,and am taking extra magnesium,fish oil and multi B vitamins which I hope are helping.If this experiment has taught me anything,it's that I simply couldn't handle proper speed/meth like I used to,and I'm glad I didn't buy any.I think low dose dexies would be the way to go if I can find a source,but damn,after 5 years off any kind of stims (besides occasional caffeine) my tolly is SO low it's embarrassing!!

 

[paranoid android]

Amitriptyline and other tricyclics has cardiotoxic effects much the same as lidocaine does actually. They vary in how cardiotoxic they are (i think amitriptyline is one of the worst while doxepin is not as bad) so mixing tricyclics with stimulants is somewhat risky.

As for your fatigue perhaps you need to try another anti-depressant. I found amitriptyline to at first help my sleep thus it made me less fatigued during the day. Dry mouth was another story though . I took it at the top outpatient dose of 150mg's for some time but it just stopped working altogether for both my neuropathic pain as well as bipolar depression. That can happen with other reuptake inhibitors such as ssri's as well as just about every anti-depressant can sometimes crap out especially for treating chronic pain. The only anti-depressant i take these days is actually bupropion (wellbutrin, zyban) since it carries the least risk of mania since i have bipolar, has the least side effects for me, it actually increases my sex drive instead of fucking with it and is stimulating instead of sedating. It's a dopamine norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor so it tends to be stimulating for most people. It is worth a shot if you get the sleep all day and don't want to do anything type of depression.

 

[THC2LSD]

^Strange that you say bupropion has less of a risk of mania. I wanted it to treat depression and tobacco addiction, kill two birds with one stone. But my doc says it has a higher risk of mania. What's true?

 

[Anoymator]

Seriously, the amount of guerrilla advertising for this supplement is starting to piss me off.

That supplement doesn't contain any amphetamine-analogues (nothing that would equate to an amphetamine effect, anyway), it's just an stupid argument/rumour started in a bodybuilding forum by the company's rep. This is an advertising tactic used before by supp. companies to sell their stock fast. That supplement is on the market freely and hasn't been pulled out, that should tell you something.

I am not saying you are trying to advertise their product intentionally but the rumour was started by the company's representative on a bodybuilding forum to spike their sales, which has led to other people unintentionally propagating the rumour. This and RC reps pimping their crap in forums pisses me off as these con-artists take the money of gullible people.

 

[MissNervosa]

Seriously, the amount of guerrilla advertising for this supplement is starting to piss me off.

That supplement doesn't contain any amphetamine-analogues (nothing that would equate to an amphetamine effect, anyway), it's just an stupid argument/rumour started in a bodybuilding forum by the company's rep. This is an advertising tactic used before by supp. companies to sell their stock fast. That supplement is on the market freely and hasn't been pulled out, that should tell you something.

I am not saying you are trying to advertise their product intentionally but the rumour was started by the company's representative on a bodybuilding forum to spike their sales, which has led to other people unintentionally propagating the rumour. This and RC reps pimping their crap pisses me off as these con-artists take the money of gullible people.

Well I definitely am not trying to advertise it,lol I haven't been near a gym in years.I only mentioned it here because the only other discussions I could find were on bodybuilding forums,and I couldn't give a shit if "it makes you lift harder and gives great pumps" (whatever that is).

Now with that in mind,seeing as I'm taking twice the maximum dose,and obviously getting a mood lift from it,is it dangerous to mix with amitriptyline?

I'm getting really concerned with all the comments on how cardiotoxic amitriptyline is.I was originally prescribed it as anxiety was preventing me from falling and staying asleep.It's great for that,but the next day lethargic hangover effect sucks.I have low dose Solian that counters the hangover somewhat,but it's not enough.I've been through all the SSRIs and SNRIs and a few others too,which is why I'm onto tricyclics.

paranoid android I've had Zyban before and found it great,but it's only available as a quit smoking drug here,is expensive and is prescribed only for 3 months.I tried it years ago though,so I'll see if my psych knows a way around all that,and also ask him about the less sedating tricyclics.I definitely have the " sleep all day and don't want to do anything type of depression" and respond really well to dopaminergenic meds.It's just finding that balance between being productive and awake all day and then being able to still sleep at night. *Sigh* back on the meds-go-round I guess.

 

[paranoid android]

paranoid android I've had Zyban before and found it great,but it's only available as a quit smoking drug here,is expensive and is prescribed only for 3 months.I tried it years ago though,so I'll see if my psych knows a way around all that,and also ask him about the less sedating tricyclics.I definitely have the " sleep all day and don't want to do anything type of depression" and respond really well to dopaminergenic meds.It's just finding that balance between being productive and awake all day and then being able to still sleep at night. *Sigh* back on the meds-go-round I guess.

I have a friend in Australia that is prescribed zyban for depression. Somehow her doctor managed to get her on it long term but all the same it's really stupid that they don't prescribe it there for depression much. It's the only one that really acts as a stimulating anti-depressant so it's a godsend for some people such as myself. I find that it really acts as a mood lifter and works fairly fast after just a week or so.

 

[BHKTOPS]

"The physicians desk reference does mention using a tricyclic amphetamine combo to treat depression. Well, not sure if it still does."

FYI Imipramine/Tofranil builds up in the liver 150 range I took ritalin and wellbutrin Unfortunately I took to much ritalin After a blood test Dr. Called me "We get concerned when the level is 300 yours had gone up to 800 "