First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2010
- Messages
- 562
"Tolerance" is an inappropriate term to be used in regards to MDMA.
With other drugs, and alcohol, tolerance is normally caused by temporary down-regulation of certain receptors and the release of neurotransmitters.
MDMA is quite special, because it causes a 'lasting reorganization' of the serotonin nerve structure in the brain.
Yes, down-regulation of receptors and loss of serotonin production IS a factor as well.
But there is a big difference between the temporary drop in serotonin production and the long-term loss of 'magic'.
One involves simple down and up-regulation, the other is a VERY slow process of rewiring the higher brain to the intestines.
That's what serotonin is all about - digestion.
It contracts the smooth muscle of the intestines and 90% of serotonin and its receptors are found there.
In the brain it is the densest and most intricate neurotransmitter system - playing a mysterious role in a wide array of brain functions.
The enzyme that produces serotonin from dietary tryptophan, TPH, is permanently deactivated by MDMA.
This means that new TPH must be produced before more serotonin can be synthesized.
It is believed that continued use of MDMA during a period of lower TPH (and brain serotonin) is a major factor for neurotoxicity.
Which is why re-dosing and failing to space rolls appropriately is the greatest mistake that any MDMA user can make.
On average it takes 1-3 months for TPH to be replenished post MDMA.
This is the big reason for the 90 day rule, although there may well be reasons that indicate a longer gap.
In fact, low TPH and serotonin has been observed in the cerebral spinal fluid of MDMA users that exhibit NO negative symptoms.
And severe anxiety and depression has been observed in MDMA users that show 'normal' levels of CSF serotonin.
There is a relationship between the two, but they are not interchangeable.
So you cannot conclude that you simply need more time to produce serotonin.
It is highly likely that after four months of abstinence that your TPH and serotonin production are 'normal' - although the function of that serotonin esp. in the higher brain is NOT.
Many rodent and primate studies have proven that heavy repeated doses of MDMA cause a loss of serotonin transmission in the cortex.
And over time, the network of serotonin nerves that extend from the brainstem will slowly reorganize themselves - eventually achieving a partial re-innervation in the cortex and hyper-innervating lower brain regions (esp. the hypothalamus).
Read about the hypothalamus if you wish to find a clue as to where your 'magic' went.
It is the commander of the endocrine system and adrenal glands - and the 'magic' of MDMA is measured by the PROLACTIN response from the pituitary gland.
Lowered neuro-endocrine response to MDMA (measured with prolactin release) has been observed in former MDMA users - even after 2.5 YEARS of abstinence!
Read that sentence again.
Many studies can be found that do NOT show long-term endocrine dysfunction in MDMA users.
They prove that this does not occur to ALL rollers.
But the presence of the studies that HAVE found the deficit in serotonin function clearly indicate that more than just 'down-regulation' of receptors is occurring in those users.
It is tried and true neurotoxicity.
A 'lasting reorganization'.
And even the others who do not exhibit a loss of prolactin response...
They are STILL found to have cognitive changes in a MANY different studies.
So...
You might consider the possibility that waiting longer than four months is a good idea.
You will not find a real 'answer' to your question, beyond the one I just wrote.
We cannot know whether or not your endocrine system is actually experiencing severe dysfunction.
If you are not severely depressed or anxious, then you are probably maintaining basic chemical balance in your brain.
BUT...
You very likely have NO prolactin response to MDMA.
This is a possible indication of true neurotoxic changes in the brain, and is at the very least a strong indicator for receptor down-regulation.
A VERY long break is warranted my friend.
Think at LEAST a year.
I have read reports online of BL members that lost the 'magic' and couldn't roll even after 3-4 YEARS of abstinence and healthy living!
At least one of them stated that it took SEVEN years to regain the 'magic'.
Learn from them.
And me.
Stop trying to roll.
Accept the fact that you need a VERY long break from a neurotoxic drug.
There is no clearer way to answer your question.
Good luck.
With other drugs, and alcohol, tolerance is normally caused by temporary down-regulation of certain receptors and the release of neurotransmitters.
MDMA is quite special, because it causes a 'lasting reorganization' of the serotonin nerve structure in the brain.
Yes, down-regulation of receptors and loss of serotonin production IS a factor as well.
But there is a big difference between the temporary drop in serotonin production and the long-term loss of 'magic'.
One involves simple down and up-regulation, the other is a VERY slow process of rewiring the higher brain to the intestines.
That's what serotonin is all about - digestion.
It contracts the smooth muscle of the intestines and 90% of serotonin and its receptors are found there.
In the brain it is the densest and most intricate neurotransmitter system - playing a mysterious role in a wide array of brain functions.
The enzyme that produces serotonin from dietary tryptophan, TPH, is permanently deactivated by MDMA.
This means that new TPH must be produced before more serotonin can be synthesized.
It is believed that continued use of MDMA during a period of lower TPH (and brain serotonin) is a major factor for neurotoxicity.
Which is why re-dosing and failing to space rolls appropriately is the greatest mistake that any MDMA user can make.
On average it takes 1-3 months for TPH to be replenished post MDMA.
This is the big reason for the 90 day rule, although there may well be reasons that indicate a longer gap.
In fact, low TPH and serotonin has been observed in the cerebral spinal fluid of MDMA users that exhibit NO negative symptoms.
And severe anxiety and depression has been observed in MDMA users that show 'normal' levels of CSF serotonin.
There is a relationship between the two, but they are not interchangeable.
So you cannot conclude that you simply need more time to produce serotonin.
It is highly likely that after four months of abstinence that your TPH and serotonin production are 'normal' - although the function of that serotonin esp. in the higher brain is NOT.
Many rodent and primate studies have proven that heavy repeated doses of MDMA cause a loss of serotonin transmission in the cortex.
And over time, the network of serotonin nerves that extend from the brainstem will slowly reorganize themselves - eventually achieving a partial re-innervation in the cortex and hyper-innervating lower brain regions (esp. the hypothalamus).
Read about the hypothalamus if you wish to find a clue as to where your 'magic' went.
It is the commander of the endocrine system and adrenal glands - and the 'magic' of MDMA is measured by the PROLACTIN response from the pituitary gland.
Lowered neuro-endocrine response to MDMA (measured with prolactin release) has been observed in former MDMA users - even after 2.5 YEARS of abstinence!
Read that sentence again.
Many studies can be found that do NOT show long-term endocrine dysfunction in MDMA users.
They prove that this does not occur to ALL rollers.
But the presence of the studies that HAVE found the deficit in serotonin function clearly indicate that more than just 'down-regulation' of receptors is occurring in those users.
It is tried and true neurotoxicity.
A 'lasting reorganization'.
And even the others who do not exhibit a loss of prolactin response...
They are STILL found to have cognitive changes in a MANY different studies.
So...
You might consider the possibility that waiting longer than four months is a good idea.
You will not find a real 'answer' to your question, beyond the one I just wrote.
We cannot know whether or not your endocrine system is actually experiencing severe dysfunction.
If you are not severely depressed or anxious, then you are probably maintaining basic chemical balance in your brain.
BUT...
You very likely have NO prolactin response to MDMA.
This is a possible indication of true neurotoxic changes in the brain, and is at the very least a strong indicator for receptor down-regulation.
A VERY long break is warranted my friend.
Think at LEAST a year.
I have read reports online of BL members that lost the 'magic' and couldn't roll even after 3-4 YEARS of abstinence and healthy living!
At least one of them stated that it took SEVEN years to regain the 'magic'.
Learn from them.
And me.
Stop trying to roll.
Accept the fact that you need a VERY long break from a neurotoxic drug.
There is no clearer way to answer your question.
Good luck.
But i really need a lil break so, yes, i'll let you know if it works.
