Medicinal - Recreational - Political and generally being a weed fiend.

[Hear Me Roar]

If they legalised cannabis medicinally, WorldWide, in herbal form/preferred forms. But kept recreational cannabis normal (you'll understand.next line).
BUT
Made it so you couldn't get, 'high'/'stoned', off the medicinal form, but it still had all the medicinal properties it does (theoretically, this question is more political then scientific. Don't just shoot me down on the scientific basis of it.)

How many of the current medicinal patients would switch from being medicinal users to recreational users?

It's not just about getting high right?.... right...?

Yes, cannabis does have medicinal value, but I think ALOT, hide behind that fact, so they can carry on excessive recreational use, purely craving the, feeling, rather than the medicinal properties regarding the plant. yes yes yes, some of the anxiety and the depression factors of the plant comes from the feeling blah blah. But for the sake of this question.

Lets make it as basic as. -
In a new system...

Medicinal cannabis is made so it has no recreational value only medicinal.
Were as recreational cannabis stays the same as it is now.
How many of the current medicinal patients would switch from being medicinal users to recreational users?

I'm a recreational user on a break. I use responsibly and take breaks when it kicks me up the backside. I'd say it doesn't have medicinal effects for me, though I know some people, who it does. An I also know some who say, they use it for anxiety and depression, yet the 'erb is exacerbating there symptoms. An it ruins a good argument when people hide behind false pretence.

 

[treezy z]

i think the high is part of why it's medicinal.

 

[Hear Me Roar]

i think the high is part of why it's medicinal.

Read my post again, not trying to be snappy, you haven't got the jist of the question.

"yes yes yes, some of the anxiety and the depression factors of the plant comes from the feeling blah blah. But for the sake of this question...... ....Medicinal cannabis is made so it has no recreational value only medicinal.". So it still combats, anxiety depression etc... just without getting high. Scientifically I don't know whether that would be possible. But for the sake of this question, lets say it is.

So you smoke the dried flower, it has the taste/smell. It has ALL the medicinal properties it has now, you just can't get, high/stoned from it.

 

[RobotRipping]

i think you make a great point, even if no one will admit to it. If you have ever seen some of the medical cannabis documentaries where they show videos of patients getting medicated they look like fucking morons and you can tell that they are just getting super high (i know this probably only applies to a small minority of medical patients).

They have been working on stains of cannabis that produce high levels of CBD (possible other cannabinoids as well, not sure) and very low levels (or even no) THC. I think these would be great as THC is what ruins cannabis for me. The anxiolytic and antidepressant effects are IMO not from the THC itself but the other cannabinoids. I think if this kind of cannabis were wide spread then there would be more medicinal users, as there are plenty of people like me who get anxious/paranoid from the THC and cannot use cannabis medicinally.

How many of the current medicinal patients would switch from being medicinal users to recreational users?

It's tough to say how many would switch, i'm sure patients enjoy being high and medicated at the same time but if it were cheaper and there were no legal repercussions i bet a lot of patients would switch. I'd even start smoking again.

 

[Hear Me Roar]

I think that's the problem, a lot of people hide under the idea, of 'medicinal' cannabis, when there really recreational users, in some cases making there symptoms worse. Which doesn't do well for ending prohibition.

I'm not against recreational or medicinal use. I just wish there was a lot more honesty and education, rather than lies. I think those who use to get high, an call it, medication, when there just getting high for the sake of it, slow down the process of medicinal cannabis being available. Which for now is the main thing. If they could no longer get high, from, 'medicinal cannabis'. Due to my fictional scientific production of this fictional medicinal cannabis which doesn't get you high. I think they'd soon jump ship.

It doesn't give a medicinal argument merit, when you have, idiots, who recreationally use and call it medicine. Then act quite frankly stupid about the whole thing and give people bad impressions.

People in chronic pain, people with cancer etc..... ALL Legit users. I have no worrie. But theirs a fine line between what becomes medication and not, when it comes to anxiety, stress etc. I want the chronic pain sufferers the, cancer sufferers, to legally be able to buy there medication. Which is slowed down counter-productively by, I'm sorry to say it, 'potheads'. Who over induldge and act like,

fucking morons

. I don't except drunk idiots, so why would I except stoned idiots. Esepcially stoned idiots who claim to be self-treating there depression to only become dependant and end up going to the NHS to seek mental help, because they were to stupid to realise cannabis has to be respected.

Which I think happens more than some cannabis users would like to think.

 

[fruitsmoothie]

I don't except drunk idiots, so why would I except stoned idiots..

drunken idiots are potentially aggressive. stoned ones, not so much?

anyway, i don't really see what you're trying to convey here. people are cheating the system so they can score some easy pot? well, DUUUUH? obviously half* of the cases is bullshit.

*number taken out of my ass

 

[RobotRipping]

his point is that this kind of use deters people from believing in the legitimacy of medicinal cannabis.

here's some interesting info on people who are working to do the very thing OP is talking about with cannabis:

<snip>

<snip>

it also appears that this new thread here in CD is of some relevance:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/631995-New-strain-with-15-8-CBD-and-lt-1-THC

 

[Artificial Emotion]

The system in the likes of California has been corrupted. You shouldn't be surprised though, if a) there's no other way to get marijuana legally at the state level other than through the medical marijuana route and b) the rules are so lax that anyone can get a recommendation. The simple fact is there are many many legitimate patients out there that benefit from medical marijuana so why does it even matter if some consenting adults decide to use marijuana for reasons other than medical use? It's not an indictment of medical marijuana, just the way the system has been set up in some places. I agree that the system isn't perfect but the way things are politically, marijuana won't be legalized for recreational use any time soon, so until then medical dispensaries are the only option for those wanting to stay on the right side of the law as far as possible.

If the price to pay for genuine patients getting their medicine is that some non-patients deceptively use the system to obtain weed just to get high when they should really be able to get it legally anyway through other means, then as far as I'm concerned that's a small price to pay. One day hopefully cannabis will be legal for both recreational and medicinal use and so there will be no need for people to abuse the system in the first place and for the genuine medical cannabis patients to be stigmatized like they have by you in this thread. Instead of being cynical it's more productive to focus on providing recreational users with safe access to their cannabis so there is no need for any deception in the first place.

There is no way of knowing how many people scam the system because a lot of the symptoms such as chronic pain are subjective and there is no test to say whether the person is genuinely experiencing them or not. I'd also like to say medicinal and recreational use are not mutually exclusive. It's not a black and white issue and as is so common in life there are shades of grey.

If they legalised cannabis medicinally, WorldWide, in herbal form/preferred forms. But kept recreational cannabis normal (you'll understand.next line).
BUT
Made it so you couldn't get, 'high'/'stoned', off the medicinal form, but it still had all the medicinal properties it does (theoretically, this question is more political then scientific. Don't just shoot me down on the scientific basis of it.)

How many of the current medicinal patients would switch from being medicinal users to recreational users?

It's not just about getting high right?.... right...?

Yes, cannabis does have medicinal value, but I think ALOT, hide behind that fact, so they can carry on excessive recreational use, purely craving the, feeling, rather than the medicinal properties regarding the plant. yes yes yes, some of the anxiety and the depression factors of the plant comes from the feeling blah blah. But for the sake of this question.

Lets make it as basic as. -
In a new system...

Medicinal cannabis is made so it has no recreational value only medicinal.
Were as recreational cannabis stays the same as it is now.
How many of the current medicinal patients would switch from being medicinal users to recreational users?

I'm a recreational user on a break. I use responsibly and take breaks when it kicks me up the backside. I'd say it doesn't have medicinal effects for me, though I know some people, who it does. An I also know some who say, they use it for anxiety and depression, yet the 'erb is exacerbating there symptoms. An it ruins a good argument when people hide behind false pretence.

 

[Hear Me Roar]

his point is that this kind of use deters people from believing in the legitimacy of medicinal cannabis.

here's some interesting info on people who are working to do the very thing OP is talking about with cannabis:

<snip>

it also appears that this new thread here in CD is of some relevance:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/631995-New-strain-with-15-8-CBD-and-lt-1-THC

Exactly my point. An the metaphor I was putting forth, was to make people think about that. There are a lot of legitimate patients. There are a lot of people who just want to get high. I'm NOT saying, recreational use should be prohibited(Legalise for all). It's just selfish, that a lot of recreational users, claim to be medicinal users. Just so they can smoke there drug of there choice. Not realising the negative effect it has on the progress of FIRST legalising cannabis in other Country's for medicinal use and then looking at making a system which works for recreational use.

 

[Hear Me Roar]

The system in the likes of California has been corrupted. You shouldn't be surprised though, if a) there's no other way to get marijuana legally at the state level other than through the medical marijuana route and b) the rules are so lax that anyone can get a recommendation. The simple fact is there are many many legitimate patients out there that benefit from medical marijuana so why does it even matter if some consenting adults decide to use marijuana for reasons other than medical use? It's not an indictment of medical marijuana, just the way the system has been set up in some places. I agree that the system isn't perfect but the way things are politically, marijuana won't be legalized for recreational use any time soon, so until then medical dispensaries are the only option for those wanting to stay on the right side of the law as far as possible.

If the price to pay for genuine patients getting their medicine is that some non-patients deceptively use the system to obtain weed just to get high when they should really be able to get it legally anyway through other means, then as far as I'm concerned that's a small price to pay. One day hopefully cannabis will be legal for both recreational and medicinal use and so there will be no need for people to abuse the system in the first place and for the genuine medical cannabis patients to be stigmatized like they have by you in this thread. Instead of being cynical it's more productive to focus on providing recreational users with safe access to their cannabis so there is no need for any deception in the first place.

There is no way of knowing how many people scam the system because a lot of the symptoms such as chronic pain are subjective and there is no test to say whether the person is genuinely experiencing them or not. I'd also like to say medicinal and recreational use are not mutually exclusive. It's not a black and white issue and as is so common in life there are shades of grey.

I smoke cannabis. I want it to be legalised for recreational and medicinal use. I want to be able to go to a shop and be able to buy cannabis for my own recreational use.
This will some day be the case.

But I would gladly give up my right to smoke weed and help the medicinal movement, for someone who say, has cancer, over my right to smoke. Everyone has the right to smoke. But places like the UK, we don't legally have the right. An when flawed systems like America, which is clearly a joke, exist. Makes it harder for other Country's like the UK, to take such a system seriously.

What about the medicinal users in the UK? Your saying they should suffer, so other recreational users can smoke? The UK doesn't want a system like America has, our Government whether we like it or not is very reserved. It makes it harder to FIRST gain a valued medicinal system, when so many people are making it so damn hard.

An how can we make recreational use legal and safe, if we have such a flawed medicinal system.
It's an ideology. Based on wanting to help those, who need it most.

But fuck it, y'know. The systems there, let everyone abuse it. Fuck other country's. Fuck the actual medicinal patients, they can go die....
Saves more pot for people who want to smoke it for there bad toe... let the recreational users slow down progress by being pigheaded and abusing cannabis. Then we won't have a recreational system or medicinal system.... because what's the difference right?! *LOTS OF SARCASM*

You make it sound like i'm saying, "only medicinal patients can smoke cannabis. Recreational users can go to hell.". That's not what I'm saying.

All sounds selfish to me.

 

[Hear Me Roar]

drunken idiots are potentially aggressive. stoned ones, not so much?

anyway, i don't really see what you're trying to convey here. people are cheating the system so they can score some easy pot? well, DUUUUH? obviously half* of the cases is bullshit.

*number taken out of my ass

People are aggressive. Drunk or sober. It's not the point.
The UK doesn't promote binge drinking, which turns people aggressive.
Neither if weed was legal, would they promote binge smoking.

"Dude, I just picking up my 78% THC concetrate for my insomnia, let's see how many dabs we can do today and get totally blazed? (1pm)"
Yet people binge all the time, which gives recreational use a bad image and makes medicinal use harder to legalise.

There are idiots in all walks of society and idiots who use a whole array of drugs. It just seems cannabis harbours more idiots then any other part of our society. But people who use cannabis are to pig-headed and righteous to think there doing any harm.

I'm sorry the world doesn't work for just one group of people....

 

[Hear Me Roar]

Look at the Netherlands and compare it with the system in America.

People should have the choice and right to smoke cannabis, however they please, legally, medicinally and recreationally.
If they choose to abuse it, that is there choice, but when it effects others, that is were I draw the line. An people being impatient and screwing the system, isn't helping.

Cannabis legally, is going to be looked at medicinally first and then recreationally. Face facts. We should look to making this system beneficial for those who really need it, show we are responsible, then fight for our right to smoke recreationally. Were adults right? not... 'Pot' Heads.

 

[nekointheclouds]

I see your point, which you are going through great lengths to make, but how is this situation any different than what people do with other controlled substances? Look at the huge problem with opiates. I live in florida which is so well known for all the pill mills. And because of all the TONS of people who would travel from all across the country just to come to florida and stock up on their opiates from docs that didnt care that their patients just wanted drugs. because they just wanted money.

Now opiates are so over controlled in florida that its very hard for people in legitimate pain to get the medication they need. I dont much like opiates myself, but my father has been a masonry worker all his life, and now in hi late 50s has all kinds of back problems. But the doctors in florida that are not the pill pushers are scared to death of the laws and often give out far less than needed.

The only big difference is that opiates are still less controlled than cannabis, and yet alot more harmful and physically addictive.

I dont live in a state where Cannabis is even legal for medical use, and i do use cannabis for legit reasons at times. I also love the high yes, but there are times i wish i could use it in the morning before work to settle my stomach which i have had issues with all my life. I dont want to go to work high though, so its often a toss up. If given the choice id choose both. id love to have some medical cannabis that didnt get me high so i could eat in the morning, and then get the real shit for after work when im ready to relax.

So perhaps you should feel blessed that its available to you at all.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

But I would gladly give up my right to smoke weed and help the medicinal movement, for someone who say, has cancer, over my right to smoke. Everyone has the right to smoke. But places like the UK, we don't legally have the right. An when flawed systems like America, which is clearly a joke, exist. Makes it harder for other Country's like the UK, to take such a system seriously.

Go back to 1996, prop 215 was the only way of making cannabis available, albeit to sick patients. Full on legalization would not be possible and the people wouldn't want it. For all the flaws of the system if they had not gone down the medicalisation route public opinion would not have shifted closer towards wanting full legalization for recreational use.

What about the medicinal users in the UK? Your saying they should suffer, so other recreational users can smoke? The UK doesn't want a system like America has, our Government whether we like it or not is very reserved. It makes it harder to FIRST gain a valued medicinal system, when so many people are making it so damn hard.

Where did I say that? I'm saying everyone should be able to have safe and legal access to cannabis, whether they are sick or not. If you provide recreational users with the ability to get cannabis legally then there would be no reason to 'scam' the system in the first place. Here in the UK we already have cannabis available to patients in the form of a tincture by the way, even if getting it is incredibly difficult.

As neko said, if you try to prevent people from scamming the system by making it tougher to get a recommendation, you inevitably will end up with some genuinely sick people not being able to get their medicine. I would rather that there are some that scam the system than there being sick people denied a medicine that actually works for them where others haven't.

 

[Hear Me Roar]

I see your point, which you are going through great lengths to make, but how is this situation any different than what people do with other controlled substances? Look at the huge problem with opiates. I live in florida which is so well known for all the pill mills. And because of all the TONS of people who would travel from all across the country just to come to florida and stock up on their opiates from docs that didnt care that their patients just wanted drugs. because they just wanted money.

Now opiates are so over controlled in florida that its very hard for people in legitimate pain to get the medication they need. I dont much like opiates myself, but my father has been a masonry worker all his life, and now in hi late 50s has all kinds of back problems. But the doctors in florida that are not the pill pushers are scared to death of the laws and often give out far less than needed.

The only big difference is that opiates are still less controlled than cannabis, and yet alot more harmful and physically addictive.

I dont live in a state where Cannabis is even legal for medical use, and i do use cannabis for legit reasons at times. I also love the high yes, but there are times i wish i could use it in the morning before work to settle my stomach which i have had issues with all my life. I dont want to go to work high though, so its often a toss up. If given the choice id choose both. id love to have some medical cannabis that didnt get me high so i could eat in the morning, and then get the real shit for after work when im ready to relax.

So perhaps you should feel blessed that its available to you at all.

I guess I am going to great lengths to make 'A' point(it doesn't really cover the whole shaboodle), not that it proves or changes anything, I just like the discussion involved in it.

Doesn't your reference to opiates kind of reiterate my point? for example the similarity between NL and the pressure there under from the EU, to close access to Marijuana to foreigners, on the basis of citizens of Germany and other Countries are trafficking across the border. Which could have major effects on NL citizens, if the EU does not only put pressure on NL to close said coffee shops, for not only tourists, but for NL citizens together. I know theres so many flaws....

At the end of the day people are going to get cannabis whichever way they can. This discussion an the points I make aren't cut and dry. It's just all ideology.

Its not just the people who do smoke cannabis medicinally, it's even those who will never get the chance; especially here in the UK. Whether that be through lack of marijuana which is suited for medicinal use or just the fact, the Police can be brutal. An instead, have to take a regime of pills, which are not only addictive but can be damaging.

In a way, I just want to make a lot of people think, to how and why, others who don't smoke cannabis can have a negative view towards it, when it clearly can be so valuable. Abuse is abuse, an over indulging can be viewed as the same. It may be safer, but in the eyes of most political party's, that still isn't acceptable. It's all, give and take.

 

[Hear Me Roar]

Go back to 1996, prop 215 was the only way of making cannabis available, albeit to sick patients. Full on legalization would not be possible and the people wouldn't want it. For all the flaws of the system if they had not gone down the medicalisation route public opinion would not have shifted closer towards wanting full legalization for recreational use.



Where did I say that? I'm saying everyone should be able to have safe and legal access to cannabis, whether they are sick or not. If you provide recreational users with the ability to get cannabis legally then there would be no reason to 'scam' the system in the first place. Here in the UK we already have cannabis available to patients in the form of a tincture by the way, even if getting it is incredibly difficult.

As neko said, if you try to prevent people from scamming the system by making it tougher to get a recommendation, you inevitably will end up with some genuinely sick people not being able to get their medicine. I would rather that there are some that scam the system than there being sick people denied a medicine that actually works for them where others haven't.

Yes the UK has Sativex made by GW Pharma who has a patent on two varietys of cannabis, which they make into a tincture. I know, this is partly the reason why I made this thread. Because people still arn't happy with the tincture, because they can't smoke the flower.

An the fact it's majorly expensive. But that is a whole different kettle of fish.

"If the price to pay for genuine patients getting their medicine is that some non-patients deceptively use the system to obtain weed just to get high when they should really be able to get it legally anyway through other means, then as far as I'm concerned that's a small price to pay."

So its spite the medicinal users, so the recreational users can smoke away. Because if the system is flawed and thus is taken away, because people take advantage of it, no one gets cannabis. An the medicinal user suffers.

The fact is, Its not legal. There is still a long way to go. Abuse of the system slows this down. Medicinal users suffer. America is a bad example of a usable system. More than some screw the system, so it won't just be, some medicinal users who lose out, It could be all. Not for America, but for other Countries. Bad press is bad press.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

The medicinal and recreational effects are the same for many patients. I don't think you can just magically separate the two.

 

[1394]

the real medicinal potential of MJ is its antiemetic properties and its lack of reaction to other drugs. It`s hardly the best pain killer but it works wonders with cancer and AIDS patients, a much better quality of life, since you can keep your medication down in your stomach.

Anyway, I really don`t see the point of this argument, most pro-pot lobbies don`t just argue about its medicinal value. That`s just a part of the political rhetoric of some of the circles in the US (mainly quasi-legal suppliers)

''The fact is, Its not legal. There is still a long way to go. Abuse of the system slows this down. Medicinal users suffer. America is a bad example of a usable system. More than some screw the system, so it won't just be, some medicinal users who lose out, It could be all. Not for America, but for other Countries. Bad press is bad press. ''

The bad press will always exist as long as dick heads such as Bill O'Reilly plague our TV sets. I don't really think the US is a bad example, maybe some lobbies with total brain dead ''let`s smoke all day and not work'' mottos give the cause a bad name but what is happening over there is just a reflection of the country's current state. People smoke, it's as simple as that, and they want to smoke but without the heavy burden of doing something illegal.

Debate on legalization shouldn`t focus on marijuana`s medicinal value. It`s not solely about that. Shifting it in that direction will limit rhetoric and turn the plant into a ''drug'' again.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Yes the UK has Sativex made by GW Pharma who has a patent on two varietys of cannabis, which they make into a tincture. I know, this is partly the reason why I made this thread. Because people still arn't happy with the tincture, because they can't smoke the flower.

I mentioned the Sativex because it is cannabis. So the UK does provide medicinal cannabis, albeit in a particular form only. When debating the issue some people forget that and tend to treat it similarly to Marinol, when in fact it's just a whole cannabis plant extract.

An the fact it's majorly expensive. But that is a whole different kettle of fish.

Yes, it is another issue entirely.

So its spite the medicinal users, so the recreational users can smoke away. Because if the system is flawed and thus is taken away, because people take advantage of it, no one gets cannabis. An the medicinal user suffers.

Recreational use would be a side effect of the system, not the goal. You assume that the misuse of the system would result in the whole credibility of the system being called in to question, but I would challenge that based on how public opinion has changed ever since the modern medical cannabis stared being made available again in the 90s.

The fact is, Its not legal. There is still a long way to go. Abuse of the system slows this down. Medicinal users suffer. America is a bad example of a usable system. More than some screw the system, so it won't just be, some medicinal users who lose out, It could be all. Not for America, but for other Countries. Bad press is bad press.

The net effect of the 'experiment' has been extremely positive for the medical cannabis movement. More good than bad has come out of it in my opinion so it's mainly right wing socially conservatives on the sidelines that make the most noise about this issue. The system could be better but it works very well considering. So well that people are starting to take notice, the world over.

 

[Hear Me Roar]

The medicinal and recreational effects are the same for many patients. I don't think you can just magically separate the two.

I don't argue your point, which is why I said, it's an ideology more than on scientific basis. Though as someone has pointed out, with low THC and high CBD(which I havn't tried). The user can have the medicinal effects without feeling, 'high'/'stoned'.

..........................

I think those who post in this thread are forgetting, I'm in the same boat and on the same side. I WANT CANNABIS REGULATED PLEASE. An this was never aimed at being a discussion solely based on legalisation. Because It's hard for me to argue a point on Legalisation when it most cases, I fully agree. This was for me, more a discussion, looking at recreational users saying there medicinal users. When in actual fact, they just want to smoke. Which in some way does go towards dampening the medical movement.

Would recreational users want to smoke high CBD strains in which they aren't getting, 'high'? If that is all that is available on the medicinal market, then surely the medicinal users would stay put and those who are really just recreational users, would go back to the black market, to acquire cannabis they can get high from? Hell, I would.

A pothead on his couch, eating a bag of crisps(or chips? America), who isn't working, but just sits around and smokes pot all day and claims he smokes cannabis for some medical problem, which isn't really an issue; is my issue. If that makes sense? It gives a very bad image.

But yes.... the same for every drug.

I think the users of cannabis in the UK would love a system like America in the UK. But politicians and those a like, don't. Which is why I called into question the legitimacy of a market like Americas. But hey ho.

It's all interesting conversation.