When will the U.S. stop mass incarceration?

villian

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aham brahmāsmi
This isn't directly about drugs but the two subjects are so closely related I decided to post anyway. Close of move if need be!
The United States leads the world in the rate of incarcerating its own citizens. We imprison more of our own people than any other country on earth, including China which has four times our population, or in human history. And now, a new Pew report announces that we are keeping even nonviolent inmates behind bars for increasingly longer terms.

This comes at a time when soaring costs of prisons are wreaking havoc on federal, state and local budgets, as schools, libraries, parks and social programs are slashed. When I graduated from the University of California at Los Angeles in 1983, my state spent more on higher education than prisons, a lot more. That equation is now reversed. Money that could have gone into reducing skyrocketing tuition and cuts to education has instead gone to prisons and inmates.

Over the past 23 years, California constructed roughly one new prison per year, at a cost of $100 million each, while it built only one new public college during the same period. Nationwide, spending on prisons has risen six times faster than spending on higher education.

As I protest education cuts, I'm so often told, "We just don't have the money." It's a lie. We do have the money. We just choose to spend it on prisons.

Why is this not a front and center issue in the presidential campaign?

Largely casualties of our misguided "war on drugs," and vigorously promoted at the federal level by the "drug czar" and a $15 billion annual budget, the number of incarcerated Americans has quadrupled since 1980.

More than two million of our people are now locked up, with another nearly five million under an increasingly restrictive system of correctional control in lieu of or after incarceration. Criminalizing human behavior like never before, our judges are required by law to mete out increasingly punitive, long sentences, even for children. Even after inmates are released, they remain under the heavy-handed and pricey control of the criminal justice system for years or for life, often legally barred from voting, receiving public housing, food stamps or student loans.

Forced to "check the box" on job applications that they are convicted criminals, even those who have had simple convictions like marijuana possession are often legally discriminated against by employers.

An unemployed young man recently wrote to me about being shut out of his dream job, nursing, because of a decade-old marijuana offense. In fact, no one at all will hire him. As he languishes on a friend's couch, he is hopeless, depressed and suicidal.

In the United States, one man out of eighteen is incarcerated or on probation or parole, and more are locked up every day. We are the last developed country on the planet to lock up juveniles, overwhelmingly boys, for life-without-parole sentences for crimes committed when they were minors. (Though the Supreme Court banned mandatory life-without-parole sentences for minors in June, judges may still impose the sentence as a discretionary matter.)

Here's one stark way to understand our new normal of mass incarceration: If we wanted to return to 1970s level of incarceration, we'd have to release four out of five people behind bars today.

Nonviolent offenders are 60% of our prison population. Releasing half of them would free up nearly $17 billion per year for schools or other worthy programs, with no appreciable effect on the crime rate. In fact, many studies conclude that mass incarceration is crimogenic, i.e., locking up people for minor offenses increases crime because they become hardened behind bars. Since few prisons offer therapy or vocational programs and children left behind in fatherless homes are more likely to grow up to become offenders themselves, the problem just gets worse.

But we cannot keep going down the road of locking up more people for longer amounts of time. According to Pew, prisoners released in 2009 served an average of nine additional months in custody, or 36% longer, than offenders released in 1990. Annually we now spend $68 billion and growing on local, state and federal corrections.

The American public strongly supports reducing time served for nonviolent offenders. But candidates appear afraid to touch this touchy third rail issue, for fear they appear less than "tough on crime."

Why does the right not consider our multibillion-dollar prison system to be the type of bloated government program ripe for cost-cutting?

Why is the left so rarely concerned about the warehoused young lives and the destruction of inner city families from our culture of mass incarceration?

Why do both sides accept the framing of this question, so often parroted: In these tough economic times, should we cut more social services or raise taxes? It's a false dichotomy. The third alternative is to stop warehousing our own people.

source @ http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/03/opinion/bloom-prison-spending/index.html
 
When will the U.S. stop mass incarceration?

Answer is inside this:

Over the past 23 years, California constructed roughly one new prison per year, at a cost of $100 million each, while it built only one new public college during the same period. Nationwide, spending on prisons has risen six times faster than spending on higher education.

Translation: not for a very, very long time, without a major struggle.
And people need education to wage such a struggle effectively....
 
It is about drugs.

I already know how this movie ends. In order to cut costs, the corrections industry will be increasingly privatized. The more privatized it becomes, the more prisoners we will have! The irony will come full circle for us.

How will privatization lead to more prisoners? Let me show you something really scary: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/03/us/probation-fees-multiply-as-companies-profit.html?pagewanted=all

God help us.

Saw this article and felt sick.
"Freedom" is just a buzzword in the U.S. to cover up the lack of freedom.
 
I'm from the UK and like much about america but, and please don't take offence, your prison system is an absolute disgrace. It is the only western, developed country that still murders prisoners, and the thing is, some are INNOCENT. Your drug laws are farcical, most of Europe is starting to see drugs rightly as a health issue not a criminal one. And it's working. Portugal de-criminalized all personal drug possession and the rate of drug related crime dropped by about 50% within a year.

In Holland you can buy weed legally and less young people smoke weed there than they do in the USA.

USA is the only country in the world where there are more male on male rapes than male/female thanks to your massive prison-industrial complex.

It is slightly arguable that due to the vast numbers of African-Americans in prison (something like 1 in 4 is locked up or on parole,) and the massive under investment in impoverished black communities like education etc. You still have a form of slavery of black people, locking as many up as possible to make money for the government and prison system.

Also, wtf is up with that absolutely crazy 3 strikes rule? I've read stories of people getting LIFE WITH NO PAROLE for stealing from shops, or possessing a few grams of skunk. I also remember reading when some Governor's son got screwed by the 3 strikes bullshit they decided to change the law in that state all of a sudden, big suprise..
 
Also to the guy who pointed out you do have the money, think of the insane amount you spend on the military. You guys spend more on War than EVERY OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH - COMBINED. Why on earth do you need 11 carrier fleets with each plane costing HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars when you have a massive and effective nuclear arsenal? In the UK we only have 4 nuclear ICBM subs with about 20 nukes each, (which we buy from you guys, thanks) why do you need more than that?

Also if the USA, Russia and especially the UK (historically) didn't keep interfering with the middle east, say for the past 200 years do you think anyone there would 'hate' the west and do fuckinng evil shit like 9/11 and the tube bombings in the UK?

Try to see it from their perspective, if the middle east was the world superpower and they came over here and killed 100,000+ americans in your country don't you think you would wanna fk their shit up too??
 
Prisoners in America = $$$. It's capitalism at its finest, also sanity and humanitarianism at its worst.
 
Also to the guy who pointed out you do have the money, think of the insane amount you spend on the military. You guys spend more on War than EVERY OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH - COMBINED. Why on earth do you need 11 carrier fleets with each plane costing HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars when you have a massive and effective nuclear arsenal? In the UK we only have 4 nuclear ICBM subs with about 20 nukes each, (which we buy from you guys, thanks) why do you need more than that?

Also if the USA, Russia and especially the UK (historically) didn't keep interfering with the middle east, say for the past 200 years do you think anyone there would 'hate' the west and do fuckinng evil shit like 9/11 and the tube bombings in the UK?

Try to see it from their perspective, if the middle east was the world superpower and they came over here and killed 100,000+ americans in your country don't you think you would wanna fk their shit up too??

I agree with everything you said in both of your posts.
 
When will the US stop putting masses of people in prison? NEVER... They actually want to increase how many people are arrested. They are about to start putting people in prison that have any debt and cannot pay, including STUDENT LOANS... yup they want to put innocent people in jail that can't afford their student loans.... These fuckers want every single citizen in a prison/prison camp.... and trust me NONE of you are exempt from this no matter how important you think you are...Soon the US will be putting people in jail for speeding violations and seat belt violations...
 
Seems like everyone gets a kick back from having people arrested..........from the police to the judges. Only one way to stop all this.......the 99% need to step up & do whats gotta be done but we all know that most of those people are stuck in front of their tvs with their frozen pizza/dinners & are contempt to follow the laws applied by the socialist/hitler like leaders of America.
 
It is the only western, developed country that still murders prisoners, and the thing is, some are INNOCENT.

I don't think the death penalty is a bad thing.

Also if the USA, Russia and especially the UK (historically) didn't keep interfering with the middle east, say for the past 200 years do you think anyone there would 'hate' the west and do fuckinng evil shit like 9/11 and the tube bombings in the UK?

Yes, of course, and you are naive to think otherwise.
 
When will the US stop putting masses of people in prison? NEVER... They actually want to increase how many people are arrested. They are about to start putting people in prison that have any debt and cannot pay, including STUDENT LOANS... yup they want to put innocent people in jail that can't afford their student loans.... These fuckers want every single citizen in a prison/prison camp.... and trust me NONE of you are exempt from this no matter how important you think you are...Soon the US will be putting people in jail for speeding violations and seat belt violations...

So they essentially want to turn America in 18th century England, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtors'_prison ) then.


In the Kingdom of Great Britain and the later United Kingdom, debtors' prisons varied in the amount of freedom they allowed the debtor. With a little money, a debtor could pay for some freedoms; some prisons allowed inmates to conduct business and to receive visitors; others (including the Fleet and King's Bench Prisons) even allowed inmates to live a short distance outside the prison — a practice known as the 'Liberty of the Rules' — and the Fleet even tolerated clandestine 'Fleet Marriages'.
Life in these prisons, however, was far from pleasant, and the inmates were forced to pay for their keep. Samuel Byrom, son of the writer and poet John Byrom, was imprisoned for debt in the Fleet in 1725, and in 1729 he sent a petition to his old school friend, the Duke of Dorset, in which he raged against the injustices of the system:
What barbarity can be greater than for gaolers (without provocation) to load prisoners with irons, and thrust them into dungeons, and manacle them, and deny their friends to visit them, and force them to pay excessive fines for their chamber rent, their victuals and drinks; to open their letters and seize the charity that is sent to them! And when debtors have succeeded in arranging with their creditors, hundreds are detained in prison for chamber-rent and other unjust demands put forward by their gaolers, so that at last, in their despair, many are driven to commit suicide... gaolers should be paid a fixed salary and forbidden, under pain of instant dismissal, to accept bribe, fee or reward of any kind... law of imprisonment for debts inflicts a greater loss on the country, in the way of wasted power and energies, than do monasteries and nunneries in foreign lands, and among Roman-Catholic peoples... Holland, the most unpolite country in the world, uses debtors with mildness and malefactors with rigour; England, on the other hand, shows mercy to murderers and robbers, but of poor debtors impossibilities are demanded... Manchester Times, 22 October 1862[3]
Some debtor prisoners were even less fortunate, being sent to prisons with a mixture of vicious criminals and petty criminals, and many more were confined to a single cell.
The father of the English author Charles Dickens was sent to one of these prisons (the Marshalsea), which were often described in Dickens's novels.[4]
The Debtors' Act of 1869 abolished imprisonment for debt, although debtors who had the means to pay their debt, but did not do so, could still be incarcerated for up to six weeks.
 
I don't think the death penalty is a bad thing.

Why? Do you know what an evil punishment it is to be locked up in most American prisons? To be locked in a small room for 23 hours a day? For years on end?
Execution has no proven deterrence effect in the USA really.

NO one can claim to know what happens after death but it is fairly likely our brains just turn off so we feel nothing. I've experienced this feeling myself under general anesthetic during long operations, when I wake up I feel I could have been asleep for 1,000 years or ten minutes.

What I'm getting at is that in prison people suffer, A LOT. We don't know that they suffer at all if they are dead.
Also if you are for it what are your thoughts on innocent people who are murdered for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Like do you think if one innocent person dies for every 10 guilty it is justifiable?


Yes, of course, and you are naive to think otherwise.

I fully agree, but that opinion is a sad minority of peoples views in the west, from statistical and personal experience.
 
I'm from the UK and like much about america but, and please don't take offence, your prison system is an absolute disgrace. It is the only western, developed country that still murders prisoners, and the thing is, some are INNOCENT. Your drug laws are farcical, most of Europe is starting to see drugs rightly as a health issue not a criminal one. And it's working. Portugal de-criminalized all personal drug possession and the rate of drug related crime dropped by about 50% within a year.

In Holland you can buy weed legally and less young people smoke weed there than they do in the USA.

USA is the only country in the world where there are more male on male rapes than male/female thanks to your massive prison-industrial complex.

It is slightly arguable that due to the vast numbers of African-Americans in prison (something like 1 in 4 is locked up or on parole,) and the massive under investment in impoverished black communities like education etc. You still have a form of slavery of black people, locking as many up as possible to make money for the government and prison system.

Also, wtf is up with that absolutely crazy 3 strikes rule? I've read stories of people getting LIFE WITH NO PAROLE for stealing from shops, or possessing a few grams of skunk. I also remember reading when some Governor's son got screwed by the 3 strikes bullshit they decided to change the law in that state all of a sudden, big suprise..


LIFE WITH NO PAROLE is some crazy shit in itself. I think this is absolutly inhuman. I would rather die then life a misserable life in prison! Even first degree murder has a maximimum of 15 years behind bars in my country.
I am sure if i lived in the USA (the land of the free) i would have gotten jailtime close to life. I had so many house searches and court cases i cannot count them anymore. And luckily I have never seen a prison from inside (ok i got jailed one night because i was way too high and got cought by undercover cops coping heroin). Man i have a court hearing next week again, it might be close this time because i have allready seven and nine month from other cases on parole, but my layers is confident
 
The USA is still living in the stone age & making tons of money doing it..........they need to legalize drugs, prostitution & gambling in every state :)
 
LIFE WITH NO PAROLE is some crazy shit in itself. I think this is absolutly inhuman. I would rather die then life a misserable life in prison! Even first degree murder has a maximimum of 15 years behind bars in my country.
I am sure if i lived in the USA (the land of the free) i would have gotten jailtime close to life. I had so many house searches and court cases i cannot count them anymore. And luckily I have never seen a prison from inside (ok i got jailed one night because i was way too high and got cought by undercover cops coping heroin). Man i have a court hearing next week again, it might be close this time because i have allready seven and nine month from other cases on parole, but my layers is confident

Sorry to hear about your legal problems. The life with no possibility of parole law is rather odd when you consider the prisons are called 'correctional facilities'

To repeat a cliched paraphrased quote -

'The way of best judging the civilization of a society is the manner in which it treats its prisoners'

Winston Churchill.

Incidentally that fascist Brevik guy who killed around 80 people faces a MAXIMUM of 21 years.

His country has a massively lower rate of crime than the USA. Why is this? All I can say for sure is that locking people up forever doesn't work...

Actually having said that my friends from Saudi Arabia say it is common practice for people to leave their £100,000 + cars unlocked on the street for hours, not sure that is a decent trade off for other stuff that goes on there tho lol..
 
actually, having thought about it a bit I still belive in the American people's democracy to change these laws. I watched on YouTube today a senator/congressman grilling a top DEA official where he repeatedly asks her straightforward questions about whether weed is more addictive than crack, H, Meth etc. It's so funny and sad at the same time, after few minutes of her refusing to answer 'yes/no/I don't know questions he gets bored and explains as a top DEA agent she should look at the scientific evidence from his state showing how 'medicinal' weed has helped people. If all Americans could see the ridiculousness of the DEA then things could change. Btw, a friend of my father is a top American Diplomat in Europe and I had a long talk with him about how even though I know weed is not harmless for some (i.e. me) it is far safer than alcohol so why the hell won't the US legalize it. He said he knew everyone who is employed by the DEA for any top level job, that a vital thing they check on is that you are personally puritanically against any drug deemed illegal.

Check the video, best explanation of the problem with the system I've seen for a long time..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFgrB2Wmh5s&feature=colike
 
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