What would you consider a bad heroin addiction?

[Tryptamino]

When you stop doing dope to get high and just do it to get "well" ... When you're sick more often than you're well ... When you need dope to eat, sleep, breathe, function ... you may or may not be shooting, you may or may not have lost your job, you may or may not be homeless at this point... but these are all possibilities. It's like a magician spinning plates or juggling or a house of cards ... if one small thing goes wrong, you're in for a world of hurt and shit's just gonna come crashing down...



That makes a lot more sense, thank you for the clarification! Good philosophy. I wish I had more self control.

I feel you on the first part. Doing drugs to wake up, doing drugs to go to sleep, and everything in between. That's what you gotta avoid. That's when it's real bad.


And i also wish i had more self control too. The philosophy just keeps me out of trouble, I widh i didn't even need a fucking code, that I didn't haven to think about controlling my drug use, like "normal" casual users.

 

[Epyx]

For me...I have managed to keep it to just Friday/Saturday (PST). Those were rules I have kept to for almost 5 years now. The problem with that is its still an addiction. Every week is a stretched out mini withdrawal cycle. Friday/Saturday use. Sunday im ok. Monday im a crabby bastard. Tuesday same. Wednesday/Thursday the sneezing, runny nose...the loose movements...Friday repeat cycle.

So sure it's not daily...its not expensive...but at the same time I can't go a weekend without. Sitting around at home on a Friday not using I get antsy and bored...On the plus side I can travel. And every year the 3 week vacation offers a mini reset but then its back.

So to me it's just being honest and asking yourself. Can I go without it today?...as soon as you say no...that's trouble.

 

[Tommyboy]

I consider it a bad addiction if you get sick within 24 hours of your last dose. Once you become dependent on opiates it is very easy to become dependent again even if you don't use as often as you used to, which is why I don't consider dependence in general to qualify it as a bad addiction. Don't get me wrong, any form of dependence sucks, but if I can easily go a day without opiates and feel fine, then I don't consider the addiction to be that bad. Like right now I'm just using on the weekends, but by Wednesday I'm feeling shitty and will take a small dose of suboxone to hold me over until Saturday when I use again. I don't consider that to be that bad. But when I was using 3-4 days a week and getting sick about 24 hours after my last dose, I considered that bad since I would have to take something every other day to keep the sick away, even though I was usually only getting high once, and the other 2-3 time I was sniffing a bag or two so I wasn't sick and got a buzz.

So even though it's pretty easy and relatively cheap to maintain a habit using 3-4 days a week (usually topping out at 8-10 bags a week) I still considered it bad since I was pretty much always either on dope, or sick. Now with 2 days of using dope, one day of suboxone, and a few days of feeling a little shitty, I don't consider that to be bad, although I would much prefer to not be dependent on opiates at all.

For me...I have managed to keep it to just Friday/Saturday (PST). Those were rules I have kept to for almost 5 years now. The problem with that is its still an addiction. Every week is a stretched out mini withdrawal cycle. Friday/Saturday use. Sunday im ok. Monday im a crabby bastard. Tuesday same. Wednesday/Thursday the sneezing, runny nose...the loose movements...Friday repeat cycle.

So sure it's not daily...its not expensive...but at the same time I can't go a weekend without. Sitting around at home on a Friday not using I get antsy and bored...On the plus side I can travel. And every year the 3 week vacation offers a mini reset but then its back.

So to me it's just being honest and asking yourself. Can I go without it today?...as soon as you say no...that's trouble.

Looks like we're in similar situations, and view bad habits the same.

I try to tell people in threads where they ask how often they can use without becoming dependent after going back to using after kicking that you really have to limit it to once a week max, because even at 2x a week you will become dependent, considering you have been dependent in the past. You can get by on 2x a week if you never had a habit before, but once you have had a habit it's a lot easier to become dependent than the first time. It took me forever to catch a habit, although part of it was probably because I was using too frequently to experience withdrawals, but once I had my first real kick, they came on so fast after that.

I wonder if spacing it out to every 4 days would work, but that would mean copping 2x a week, and I much prefer to just cop once on Saturday, and get high on Saturday and Sunday off that stash. Once every 3 days would work, but only because you would be using before the withdrawal really starts, so if you were to ever take more than 3-4 days off you would get hit with the withdrawals, although they wouldn't be too bad. Same with weekend use, the withdrawal is usually 2 nights of shitty sleep, shitty shit, RLS, and achy bones, along with the usual runny nose and low energy.

 

[Rabidrabbit]

Looks like we're in similar situations, and view bad habits the same.

I try to tell people in threads where they ask how often they can use without becoming dependent after going back to using after kicking that you really have to limit it to once a week max, because even at 2x a week you will become dependent, considering you have been dependent in the past. You can get by on 2x a week if you never had a habit before, but once you have had a habit it's a lot easier to become dependent than the first time. It took me forever to catch a habit, although part of it was probably because I was using too frequently to experience withdrawals, but once I had my first real kick, they came on so fast after that.

I wonder if spacing it out to every 4 days would work, but that would mean copping 2x a week, and I much prefer to just cop once on Saturday, and get high on Saturday and Sunday off that stash. Once every 3 days would work, but only because you would be using before the withdrawal really starts, so if you were to ever take more than 3-4 days off you would get hit with the withdrawals, although they wouldn't be too bad. Same with weekend use, the withdrawal is usually 2 nights of shitty sleep, shitty shit, RLS, and achy bones, along with the usual runny nose and low energy.

I used 600mg of oxycodone within 2 days and felt like fucking shit on day three, without anything. I think you've got something there; once you've had a habit, you can't just binge without consequences...

 

[Captain.Heroin]

That doesn't make any sense; how does one let their drug addiction revolve around their life? Don't you just not have an addiction then? If you were being sarcastic, sorry, I didn't get it.

Use to live, don't live to use.

 

[Rabidrabbit]

Use to live, don't live to use.

So essentially:

Use drugs to enhance your life rather than making drug use the only part of your life?

I dunno, the way it's worded... Use to Live... sounds like you must use in order to live, therefore you are just as addicted if you live to use. Perhaps I've just used too much and have gone retarded. 8(

 

[Carl Landrover]

So does that mean there is a good heroin addiction?

Wouldn't that be an oxymoron?

 

[xburtonchic]

I just want to add a quick note before I read these replies: to the last poster (and anyone else who might have posted something similar)... no, of course it does not mean there is such thing as a "good" heroin addiction. It means that some people might see one person's addiction as worse than someone else's. I'm pretty sure I explained this in detail in my original post. If you'd bothered to read it before replying, you'd know that. This is kind of a serious thread - I'm doing it for school... so please don't be a smartass kthnx.

EDIT: Just finished reading all of your responses and there is some amazing material in here that I can use. Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply seriously!

 

[Carl Landrover]

I don't think the adjective matters if you're phrasing the question with the word "addiction". No addiction is going to be "good" even in relative terms. If someone were able to moderate their use then they may not necessarily be an addict.

This is also heavily dependant on what sort of time frame you're talking about. People who have been using for years and who have been opiate dependant for years are going to have different ideas of "good", "bad" and "addiction" compared to someone who has been using for a year or less.

People who do moderate their use, say they are mentally addicted, they might be able to stay at that same level for a while without progressing further, but over a longer period of time there's a much greater chance of becoming physically dependant on heroin. Over a long period of time the amount people use in a week or in month is to going to have great variances. People go through spurts and binges of using, they slow down for a while, maybe they get clean for a while, then a period of light use, and eventually back full circle into the swing of full on active user. Neither progressing into using nor regressing away from using are done linearly.

If you want to measure addiction then you have to look at the cost to the person's life. What health issues have arisen? What financial problems? What social issues? Have they become more isolated? Have they become more depressed? Have they replaced their focus on using an activity they used to do more often?

 

[bagochina]

long-term, daily IV use, in large amounts, no matter what.

 

[Seyer]

So essentially:

Use drugs to enhance your life rather than making drug use the only part of your life?

I dunno, the way it's worded... Use to Live... sounds like you must use in order to live, therefore you are just as addicted if you live to use. Perhaps I've just used too much and have gone retarded. 8(

CHs statement is ass backwards. Should really be: Live to use, dont use to live. What I bolded in the quote is exactly what its going towards. You should live your life to use responsibly as you please, but using to live is just straight up addiction.

 

[Tommyboy]

I just want to add a quick note before I read these replies: to the last poster (and anyone else who might have posted something similar)... no, of course it does not mean there is such thing as a "good" heroin addiction. It means that some people might see one person's addiction as worse than someone else's. I'm pretty sure I explained this in detail in my original post. If you'd bothered to read it before replying, you'd know that. This is kind of a serious thread - I'm doing it for school... so please don't be a smartass kthnx.

EDIT: Just finished reading all of your responses and there is some amazing material in here that I can use. Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply seriously!

It is very common for people to view everybody else as having a worse addiction than them. It's very common in rehabs, where it's easier to point out the extent of other peoples addictions instead of focusing on their own. I'm sure that a lot of people here will say that they consider a bad heroin addiction to be basically whatever is a step up from theirs.

CHs statement is ass backwards. Should really be: Live to use, dont use to live. What I bolded in the quote is exactly what its going towards. You should live your life to use responsibly as you please, but using to live is just straight up addiction.

Yea his quote sounded pretty bad, making it sound like you should be dependent.

Use to enhance lives pleasures, don't live just to get high would be the only way his quote could be interpreted as not meaning that you should need drugs in order to live.

 

[Znegative]

I think a bad heroin addiction,or any addiction, is one where the user's life is completely controlled by obtaining the substance, and using the substance. I dont know, i posted somewhere else that i once shot coke with this couple and the girl who was an amputee, was trying to shoot into the veins in her stump... Thats a gnarly addiction.

Yes their are certain variable's at play. In most cases, I think an I.V addiction to heroin is worse then someone using other ROA, but that is certainly not always the case. The problem with I.V is that these users (speaking from experience) want to shoot up everything quite offten, and can become very wreckless. You don't hear many stories about those who sniff and smoke getting HIV or HEP C. At the same time one of my best friends who was not even addicted physically to heroin caught HEP C, so that's not always a measure either. I've considered my addiction to be pretty bad based on the fact that I've fucked up my veins, been to the ICU 8 times in the last six years, been arrested twice, and I've stolen a lot of money and material objects which I've pawned for money.. However, it could be way worse.

I guess the worst heroin addict is probably one that is addicted to multiple substances (a speedballer, using crystal, coke/crack), who is homeless, has HIV/HEP C, and is selling sex to afford their habit.

 

[gearfiend]

a bad heroin addiction is any heroin addiction that has progressed to physical addiction. but thats just IMO. i dont have any firsthand experience with heroin, but with other opiates. psychological addiction with opiates is very powerful, and can sneak up on you. it starts with you saying once or twice a month ill use. then next thing you know its once every few weeks. then once a week. then twice a week, but only on weekends. then you justify doing it during the week and just alternating days. then next thing you know your physically hooked, you barely realize the level the addiction has progressed to the current point, and it controls your life. you have to use 3 times a day everyday just to keep from getting dopesick. then as your tolerance rises, you get sloppy. you need more every time, you keep spending all your money on the opiates. then you fail a drug test or something because you cant stop using without getting dopesick. next thing you know your on the street with nothing but a severe need for an incredibly expensive black market item. and now your life is shit. thus any form of addiction to opiates generally is bad.

 

[RecklessWOT]

While no addiction is good, I would only consider it a particularly bad addiction if it begins negatively affecting the person's life. If they can afford to keep getting their fix without robbing people and shit, maintain a job, maintain personal relationships, isn't causing a lot of bodily harm (collapsed veins, bad lungs from smoking tar, etc), still has a roof over their head and all of those "normal life" type of things, the fact that someone may be physically dependant on a drug isn't the end of the world.

Now it's still not good, it sucks to get sick from not having drugs, especially one like heroin which has a pretty bad stigma attached to it. But I don't think the question here is whether it's bad to be addicted to heroin or not (shit we all know it's not a good thing), but just what you think would make someone considered a severe addict as opposed to just your normal functioning addict

 

[Captain.Heroin]

So essentially:

Use drugs to enhance your life rather than making drug use the only part of your life?

I dunno, the way it's worded... Use to Live... sounds like you must use in order to live, therefore you are just as addicted if you live to use. Perhaps I've just used too much and have gone retarded. 8(

I'll try to reiterate what I meant.

Oh, by the way, if I got the saying backwards, my bad. You can reverse it. The concept seems to be the same when I run it through my head. 8(

The more common phrase that I kind of stole my idea from is "eat to live, don't live to eat". Food (and in some ways drugs) sustain us in beneficial ways. When over-indulged, there can be a bunch of problems (for food: obesity, diabetes, a changed metabolism; for drugs: addiction, withdrawal, relapse, drug/drug-use related health problems, etc.).

However, this doesn't change the fact that you still need something to survive.

If you are having problems interpreting what I'm saying, because exogenous drug use hasn't benefited your life in many/any ways, then consider it to be endogenous drugs (ones that your brain produces and uses so that you are a functional human being).

I'll try to provide a few examples of what I mean by this, and how each side contrasts to one another.

Some people find themselves frequently experiencing anxiety/panic. In this case, when the anxiety/panic is especially pronounced (something that happens once a week to once a month depending on how stressful my life is at the time), I will allow myself to take temazepam or alprazolam.

On the other hand, some people with anxiety problems who try benzodiazepines, go on to form insidious dependencies to the substances just to avoid protracted withdrawal.

Some people find themselves frequently experiencing pain (chronic pain patients). Depending on the severity of the pain, people often allow themselves to use opioids to alleviate the pain.

On one hand, there are people who are able to use mild opioids medicinally and responsibly. On the other hand, there are people who will become infatuated with the effects of mu-opioid agonism and this will in turn lead to a dependency/addiction.

This is somewhat "black and white" as far as examples go. Now for the shades of grey.

Recreational drugs exist, and are used. In fact, all societies on the face of the earth have used drugs. Even if the options were limited to alcohol and tobacco, or other indigenous drugs that are common to the location/people, there has never been a drug-free society. Implying we could construct one from humanity as it exists today is preposterous.

However, there is a very fine line that I have witnessed people cross, and I'll try to describe this line now.

On one side of the line, you have people who are able to complete school/work/family expectations, and then at night, or on the weekends, or maybe once every few months/once a year, will indulge in something like a psychedelic, cannabis, or other recreational drugs. Possibly more than one.

On the other side of the line, you have people that have lives which completely revolve around drug use. Here are some examples...

Some people work a job (think of prostitution, which is a legitimate job in New Zealand, but would be against the law in most of the United States) in order to support their drug habit.

Some people serve as a "middle man" for a dealer, exclusively to receive some of their drug of choice for free from their friends/acquaintances.

Some people may actually deal drugs part/full time, by themselves or with other people, in order to support their habit.

Some people may deal drugs full time, by themselves, in order to support their significant other's habit (yes this happens).

Some people may use drugs to the point where it seems it is their only hobby, or they may use drugs to the point where it is the only thing that motivates them to act.

In my experience, crossing this "line", where drug use starts as a pleasure and them becomes a chore, is really easy. To go from it being a chore to just a simple life pleasure, is a lot harder but not impossible.

I'll summarize by saying when I say "use to live, don't live to use", I'm referring to the idea that drug use has benefits but they are limited. You have to know and respect these limits, otherwise, it's all too easy to find yourself crossing the line that many of us have in the past, and some of us may continue to do so in the present/future.

I think it's also important and necessary to point out that for some people and some drugs, it is better to avoid it completely to avoid crossing the line. While many people are able to handle drinking ethanol, or indulging in modest amounts of cannabis from time to time, not many people are able to handle heroin or methamphetamine in the same fashion.

 

[Rabidrabbit]

I'll try to reiterate what I meant.

Oh, by the way, if I got the saying backwards, my bad. You can reverse it. The concept seems to be the same when I run it through my head. 8(

The more common phrase that I kind of stole my idea from is "eat to live, don't live to eat". Food (and in some ways drugs) sustain us in beneficial ways. When over-indulged, there can be a bunch of problems (for food: obesity, diabetes, a changed metabolism; for drugs: addiction, withdrawal, relapse, drug/drug-use related health problems, etc.).

[...]

I'll summarize by saying when I say "use to live, don't live to use", I'm referring to the idea that drug use has benefits but they are limited. You have to know and respect these limits, otherwise, it's all too easy to find yourself crossing the line that many of us have in the past, and some of us may continue to do so in the present/future.

I think it's also important and necessary to point out that for some people and some drugs, it is better to avoid it completely to avoid crossing the line. While many people are able to handle drinking ethanol, or indulging in modest amounts of cannabis from time to time, not many people are able to handle heroin or methamphetamine in the same fashion.

Okay, I believe I get what you're saying. The food thing I've heard before. But you'd literally die if you never ate again. You can never use drugs (save for in a medical context) ever again and go on living. I guess I'm defining "living" in the biological sense rather than the philosophical sense of "yeah, man, this is LIFE... live it up!" or whatever.

I guess if you're only thinking about the next high, whatever the high is -- crack, heroin, marijuana, MDMA, booze -- that's when it's overtaken your life and you have crossed that "line" of which you spoke.