🌟🌟 Social 🌟🌟 ⫸SIED Social v. Meathead's Tea-Break⫷

[Voxide]

Would this involve the total annihilation of the US population?

Lol, not really. I would just push for more effective rehabilitation systems to be put into place along with increasing spending on research of these drugs and harsher penalties for those who produce and sell them. The users themselves aren't really the issue as far as legalities go.

I mean, 1 day is obviously a huge stretch in the timeframe that these goals could be accomplished so that was facetious, but you get the point.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Lol, not really. I would just push for more effective rehabilitation systems to be put into place along with increasing spending on research of these drugs and harsher penalties for those who produce and sell them. The users themselves aren't really the issue as far as legalities go.

I mean, 1 day is obviously a huge stretch in the timeframe that these goals could be accomplished so that was facetious, but you get the point.

Do you think that you would be successful though? Do you know what happens to drug users in countries like China? In China, people still abuse drugs. It's even speculated (with logical evidence) in North Korea, there is a methamphetamine epidemic.

Next, look at this...

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_the_death_penalty_for_illegal_drugs

Afghanistan
Bangladesh
Brunei
China
Egypt
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Kuwait
Laos
Malaysia
Oman
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Somalia
Sri Lanka
Taiwan
Thailand
Vietnam
United Arab Emirates
Zimbabwe

Iran has the most opioid addicts per capita, of any country in the entire world. Afghanistan contains a large degree of the world's opium farms.

Aside from heroin, which is not domestically produced - examine methamphetamine, which is domestically produced. Mexican methamphetamine traffickers actually stopped trafficking it across the Mexican/American border, in lieu of the added risk of having to smuggle it across the border, started producing methamphetamine domestically in the United States. It's easier to transport money than it is to transport the drug.

Imagine the dangers of a methamphetamine lab, and the idea that this danger is not limited to some place in an industrial facility like pharmaceutical companies produce drugs, but that this is being performed in moving cars, in people's private residences, in apartment units, in trailers or RV's, and that every single lab is producing dangerous byproducts - and each lab may or may not handle these byproducts correctly - would you seriously rather keep methamphetamine illegal, where plenty of people are producing it (including criminal organizations)?

Wouldn't it be easier to regulate methamphetamine more than tobacco or alcohol, to keep it in pharmacies, to limit people to a reasonable amount per day? Wouldn't it be safer for legitimate, above the board companies to produce methamphetamine for much less cost to the consumer? Wouldn't eliminating the illegality reduce the profit margin people stand to gain by producing it haphazardly?

More importantly, if users were regularly encountering a pharmacist, couldn't the pharmacist relatively gauge whether the person is benefiting or not from methamphetamine? I can assure you dealers do not cut off their clients with drug problems when drugs are illegal - the profit margin is too high to do that. I can assure you that such dealers wouldn't restrict your access to a given quantity, assuming they can procure it and you can procure the value they expect.

Who is going to pay for drug rehabilitation? Shouldn't drug companies be held responsible for the patients who become addicted to their products? When certain recreational drugs are illegal, and no legitimate company can profit off of said drug, there's no one who can be legally responsible for assisting in people's recovery from addiction. I firmly believe that if we required drug makers to provide rehabilitation facilities for the people who have become addicted to their products, that this would drive down the price of drug rehabilitation. Keeping drugs illegal also keeps the cost of drug rehabilitation extremely high.

Just to briefly bring up crack/cocaine, you remember the crack cocaine disparity right? The Fair Sentencing Act removed the disparity between how crack and cocaine were being punished. Even with crack's mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines, did this deter all of the people who ended up with a lengthy jail sentence as a result of possessing a certain quantity of crack? Did this encourage people to give up crack? Did people one day say "oh well if only they'd put me in jail for like, 5 days, I would do crack.... but 5 years?! Fuck that shit!" - you hear no one say this. Ask yourself why. If people are already risking their freedom for a drug, they won't stop if you up the ante to their life.

And, finally, as for hallucinogens, most of which are not addictive (of course ketamine is, as well as MDMA seems to have an addictive pull to a certain subset of people who have tried the drug) - how do you suppose you could get people to stop using hallucinogens? Mushrooms grow in nature. What are you going to do to prevent that?

More importantly - would there even be a way to test that someone is using DMT? DMT is an endogenous psychedelic to the human brain. It is in every living thing. How would you suppose we get rid of DMT? Nuclear weapons won't destroy the cockroaches.

As RC's have been available for many years now, there are a lot of psychedelic users who have already established impressive collections of various psychedelic drugs. There's no going back in time - what would you do about this?

Even with Australia, which is a country known for its strict customs - gets plenty of drugs. It had been found that the military were the primary importers of recreational drugs, as drug dogs inspect everything going into Australia, except certain parts of the Australian navy vessels. It's not surprising to me at all, although it's not like everyone knows this.

This whole long rant aside, I'll briefly address your points.

1) more effective rehabilitation - frankly, the explicit reason why rehabilitation facilities have low success rates is as follows: many people, the vast majority, who go to rehab are not in there to get clean for the long haul. A lot of people face problems when going from an active addiction to sudden sobriety, this leads a lot of people's families to want to shove them away for a while, in a rehabilitation facility. There are people who seek out drug rehabilitation facilities because they themselves want to get clean for their own life. There really are. But they are not the common person in a drug rehab facility. Often there is coercion from family members, or there is work-related policy due to an incident or a drug testing result or what have you.

The conclusion of this is simply, you cannot just tell drug users to stop using. It doesn't really work. Even depicting actual, realistic, and somewhere between off-putting and down right horrifying results of drug abuse, such as but not limited to... deviated septum or even the lack thereof from intra-nasal abuse of cocaine/methamphetamine, a dozen or more injection complications including abscesses, track marks, collapsed veins, seizures and/or vomiting and unconsciousness from overdose, and unfortunately many more... this normally does not deter most people from seeking out and using drugs.

How effective are Surgeon General's warnings on a pack of cigarettes? How about the warning labels associated with ethanol?

2) more spending on research - while research is great, and you might find something new that helps millions of addicts, how is this going to stop drug use? If anything, it would just reduce the numbers by helping more, but not all, people through a successful recovery.

3) harsher penalties for producers and sellers - what more could you do to a person? Would it be a deterrent? I'm still guessing no, based on what I have said before I started listing 3 points.

 

[Voxide]

I duly noted each of your points but there's no way that making drugs even easier to access is a good idea. All it will lead to is more use and more crime.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I duly noted each of your points but there's no way that making drugs even easier to access is a good idea. All it will lead to is more use and more crime.

You seem to be missing my main point, which is, that drug prohibition renders access to drugs easier.

If they were legal, the government could regulate how much of any given drug you can legally acquire as an adult. They could put age restrictions on drugs. They could put quantity restrictions on drugs. These are things that cannot be implemented when drug prohibition continues.

 

[Voxide]

You seem to be missing my main point, which is, that drug prohibition renders access to drugs easier.

If they were legal, the government could regulate how much of any given drug you can legally acquire as an adult. They could put age restrictions on drugs. They could put quantity restrictions on drugs. These are things that cannot be implemented when drug prohibition continues.

That just sounds like condoning it to me. It's only common sense that if it's legalized it will be easier to get. Just look at inner cities and their drugs problems. One could argue that drugs there are technically already legalized considering that the police pay no attention to those areas and don't really want to. One guy in Miami ate a dude's face because he was so twacked out on acid and god knows what else. Alcohol is relatively controlled and people still find ways to fuck themselves up. I mean, they tried it in Portugal and maybe it worked there but the US isn't Portugal. Morality plays a bigger role than economics do in the whole thing. I wouldn't want my child to grow up around heroin pharmacies and then thinking there's nothing wrong with using heroin, just like I wouldn't want him seeing gay marriages and then thinking it's ok to be gay. In a healthier society, people wouldn't need illicit drugs to escape in the first place.

 

[-Guido-]

I believe fitness makes you superior to other people.

It does. It ensures you can easily defend yourself, you live longer, you have increased endurance, you can easily ensure you can find a mate to have children who will be taught your ideals and in turn carry on your superior legacy in future generations.

I used to feel sorry for the fat people on scooters. I don't anymore, I despise them for being weak. Being fat or not physically fit isn't genetic, it's a choice. Genetics only determine muscle insertions and rate of growth. Genetically a fat person is no different DNA wise compared to a bodybuilder.

I love working out. I love building muscle. My biggest regret in life was being on heroin for seven years and not working out.

 

[-Guido-]

GUIDO HIMSELF is on methadone, is he a weak minded fuck by any stretch of the imagination? I'd say hes the exact opposite. So clearly its something more than willpower...Unless you all think Guido has no will power? By all of your logic he is a "Weak minded fool with homo erotic tendencies". Hey Guido, did you read that? Voxide says your lack of control over opiates means youre a weak minded fudge packer. From what I've read of Guidos posts he has more self control and discipline than 99.9% of other people who post on this site. Shit he honestly might have the MOST self control if everything he says is straight. So mayhaps theres something more to it?

Unless you dont believe in science. Considering you use science to make/do steroids,THAT would be crazy. Although I would expect to hear more ranting about Adam and Eve i guess.

Renz I am calling you out as a forum slut who will sleep with any section for the shot at section acceptance and a mod title. Get torn apart in the other sections and fall back here. I honestly wouldn't have even noticed if i hadn't come in here to thank Guido for helping me save a life, but I'll calls em as I sees em

Guidos the only straight shooter in here anyway. I came in here to thank him and thats it. The rest of the ignorance permeating around is honestly retarded and exactly where the stereotypes all come from. Gudio keep doing your thing you're are most probably saving lives.

I'm not a Methadone addict. I don't use it to get high. I'm Methadone dependent. I already made an appointment in July at the clinic with the doctor to start reducing my dose. It's hindering my progress by making me hold water and I don't need it anymore. I have no desire to use opiates anymore because they don't benefit me. Steroids and fitness benefit me.

What Voxide said is right. The way the world is today, "Generation Nothingness" aptly named by GH15, legalizing drugs would reduce this country into an even worse shit hole. Back in 1920, heroin, cocaine, and amphetamines were legal but people didn't have a desire to get high or fucked up because they had purpose, moral, and drive.

I'm happy I helped you and your welcome. I try my best to educate people and help them. As much as I know about hormones, drugs, steroids, chemicals, and peptides, there was a time when I knew nothing and made very terrible mistakes and endangered myself.

Remember this, this goes for everyone; Live. Learn. And share what you learned with others so that they can live instead of dying.

 

[-Guido-]

If they were legal, the government could regulate how much of any given drug you can legally acquire as an adult. They could put age restrictions on drugs. They could put quantity restrictions on drugs. These are things that cannot be implemented when drug prohibition continues.

If times were different I would agree, but unfortunately we live in a society that has become self absorbed, puts pleasure over morals and responsibility, and is just down right miserable... The United States has the highest rate of people on mood enhancing and psychoactive prescription drugs in the world along with people on welfare, food stamps, and other government sanctioned aid. In countries like the Netherlands legalizing drugs has worked as well as legalizing heroin for addicts in Switzerland, both countries being home to hard working people with morals who don't expect instant gratification like us here in the United States. Compare those societies to ours and you can see how it just wouldn't work in our country until things gets better.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I wouldn't want my child to grow up around heroin pharmacies and then thinking there's nothing wrong with using heroin, just like I wouldn't want him seeing gay marriages and then thinking it's ok to be gay. In a healthier society, people wouldn't need illicit drugs to escape in the first place.

In all societies, people use drugs. There isn't one society on the face of the planet where drug use is not a factor.

Gay marriage is already a reality in New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maryland, DC, and Iowa.

It sounds like you would be better off raising your kids in countries where same sex activities are punishable by death or lengthy prison sentences, like Sudan, Saudi Arabia, or Iran.

 

[Renz Envy]

I don't think anyone should see drug use as a matter of right or wrong. Bluelighters are better than that.

Drugs are tools. All of them.

Drugs are weapons. They are powerful ones.
Methamphetamine made world war II a completely different ballgame with super soldiers.
Steroids make individuals more aggressive, more competitive and stronger in every way physically.
Opiates null pain and improve working conditions.
GABAergics can be used to induce deep sleep and improve anxiety issues.

Yet we live in a society where the human race is faced with difficulty using these tools. Our minds are not yet developed enough to fully utilize them to their full potential. So many people struggle with addiction. Dopamine is more important than life itself.

The same reason the lab rat in drug addiction tests returns to the water containing the heroin or the meth. People are not capable of making a fully logical decision above a certain threshold of pleasure and pain.

We are both cursed and blessed to have these compounds still capable of being used. They are a road block in our evolution, but yet they can also be used to speed up and alter our progression. The FDA may not approve them, however if you still choose to use them, that only signifies that you trust the faith of your own scientific knowledge over that of the government's.

My theory is to look at Prisons. They are full to the brim and overflowing with people who have dedicated their lives to drugs. The US has the highest amount of people using psychoactive substances, it also has the highest prison population per capita. Prisons are quite literally a means of eliminating the genes containing drug addict behavior. Because we are all just representations of a genetic code.

I can assure you that most all things drug related is white and black. Horrible and wonderful, which makes a drug user's life such a confusing mess of highs and lows.

 

[Voxide]

It sounds like you would be better off raising your kids in countries where same sex activities are punishable by death or lengthy prison sentences, like Sudan, Saudi Arabia, or Iran.

Nope, just a good 'ol American household that embraces the values that this country was founded upon almost 300 years ago.

Frankly, I'm not surprised that any of those states approve of same-sex marriage. They are run by bleeding heart liberals who are incapable of thinking rationally; my views aren't based off of hate and intolerance. I just don't see a logical reason to be giving benefits to people who are already probably living together anyway. I find the lifestyle detestable but I don't have any problems with gays themselves.

 

[nolys]

This doesn't seam very social to me... Seems pretty anti social...
Lol

 

[Chainer]

So I'm starting up my 5 day split program after a 6 month break, and a year break from creatine (Green Mag by CL).

I've heard a lot of good shit about p90X, and following it up with p90X2. Anyone have thoughts about that? Only major issue with that is I do almost all my working out in an actual gym - I have very little in the form of freeweights and resistance cables at home.

Anyway just thought it'd be interesting to pop back in here after so long. Maybe I'll keep a log in our of the log threads.

Anyone else starting up again, or have started recently? At peak I was 155lbs 5'8, then I broke my jaw in a sanctioned MMA fight, and slowly dropped down to 125lbs. A full year later, and 6 surgical procedures, and I am back to 137lbs. My goal is a solid 155 again before August.

 

[Voxide]

So I'm starting up my 5 day split program after a 6 month break, and a year break from creatine (Green Mag by CL).

I've heard a lot of good shit about p90X, and following it up with p90X2. Anyone have thoughts about that? Only major issue with that is I do almost all my working out in an actual gym - I have very little in the form of freeweights and resistance cables at home.

Anyway just thought it'd be interesting to pop back in here after so long. Maybe I'll keep a log in our of the log threads.

Anyone else starting up again, or have started recently? At peak I was 155lbs 5'8, then I broke my jaw in a sanctioned MMA fight, and slowly dropped down to 125lbs. A full year later, and 6 surgical procedures, and I am back to 137lbs. My goal is a solid 155 again before August.

Starting Strength and 3000 calories a day. I'd recommend GOMAD in addition to this if you're having trouble. P90x is a recreational fitness program designed for people to simply get off the couch and prep them for physical activity before they actually begin a real workout regimen. It's overhyped and will do very little in terms of building strength and mass.

 

[Chainer]

Alright, sounds like it's not really my cup o' tea. I've done hardcore lifting programs in the past that I've developed myself (I took fitness instruction in college for a year and was a unpaid personal trainer for credit hours at our university's gym).

I'm a hardgainer, I have to eat somewhere near 3,500 to 4,500 calories a day, and drink a half gallon of milk, along with 1 1/2 gallon water + creatine just to keep mass on.

Here are just my old comparison pics. I'm starting up new ones today.

NSFW:

@140

@ 150lbs

edit: GOMAD? Is this is a supplement? Preworkout I've always used Purple Wraath or Purple InTrain by CL. Post I've used just Whey shakes in addition to a shit ton of water.

I have animal pak - but I've never used any of them. So many fucking pills, I feel like I'd be bursting with so much energy I'd throw up at the gym if I combo'd all of them. As it stands right now, I won't be starting any supplements until at least 3 weeks into my new program.

 

[Voxide]

Alright, sounds like it's not really my cup o' tea. I've done hardcore lifting programs in the past that I've developed myself (I took fitness instruction in college for a year and was a unpaid personal trainer for credit hours at our university's gym).

I'm a hardgainer, I have to eat somewhere near 3,500 to 4,500 calories a day, and drink a half gallon of milk, along with 1 1/2 gallon water + creatine just to keep mass on.

Here are just my old comparison pics. I'm starting up new ones today.

NSFW:

@140

@ 150lbs

edit: GOMAD? Is this is a supplement? Preworkout I've always used Purple Wraath or Purple InTrain by CL. Post I've used just Whey shakes in addition to a shit ton of water.

I have animal pak - but I've never used any of them. So many fucking pills, I feel like I'd be bursting with so much energy I'd throw up at the gym if I combo'd all of them. As it stands right now, I won't be starting any supplements until at least 3 weeks into my new program.

GOMAD stands for a gallon of milk a day. Don't worry about supplements either. Other than the generic whey protein, BCAA and creatine, they are all a waste of money.

What sort of routine did you develop for yourself if you don't mind me asking? You aren't going to put any mass on by doing cardio and isolation exercises if that's what you're implying. Starting Strength or Reg Park's beginner routine are the 2 best candidates. You have built a decent base despite your weight loss but your protein/CHO/dietary fat intake is going to have to go up and so are the poundages. If you're still having trouble making your caloric needs meet, drizzle olive oil over your meals and make shakes with oats and peanut butter added into them. I have a liberal philosophy on mass gaining nutrition, so I recommend not being afraid of some junk food once in a while. Pizza, chips, Mcdonalds. etc. are all fine in moderation as long as your protein is fulfilled for the day. Sodas and candies on the other hand are still just shitty processed sugars that offer no benefit other than increasing your T2 'beetus risk.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

My goal is a solid 155 again before August.

Good luck on attaining your goals, Chainer! I'm sure you will get there.

They are run by bleeding heart liberals

Define "bleeding heart liberals". The northeast of the United States is not what I consider the "bleeding heart liberal" part of the country.

I am not sure if it would be appropriate to even label a state as a political orientation.

 

[Voxide]

Good movie brahs.

 

[auhsoJ]

So what's up with bodybuilders equating training hard and achieving success with right wing politics? I see that all over. It's like they actually think they alone are responsible for everything they do. Not the gym they rely on, the food (and producers of food) they use, drugs/supplements or job they lucked into getting to support all that. Not to mention the roads they use, cars they drive, palace they stay in... and they're almost always against drugs ('cept PE kind). (?) Like people who say that you and you alone are responsible for success in life. That's the same mentality Reagan invented in the 80s. Individuality is a lie. DUH

I mean I took the effort to use the resources in front of me. I find it's really easy to look down on people when you're dedicated your life to training (I struggle). Gobbling their bags of Doritos, sodas and pastries day after day.

I wonder if I'm off topic.

 

[Voxide]

So what's up with bodybuilders equating training hard and achieving success with right wing politics? I see that all over. It's like they actually think they alone are responsible for everything they do. Not the gym they rely on, the food (and producers of food) they use, drugs/supplements or job they lucked into getting to support all that. Not to mention the roads they use, cars they drive, palace they stay in... and they're almost always against drugs ('cept PE kind). (?) Like people who say that you and you alone are responsible for success in life. That's the same mentality Reagan invented in the 80s. Individuality is a lie. DUH

I mean I took the effort to use the resources in front of me. I find it's really easy to look down on people when you're dedicated your life to training (I struggle). Gobbling their bags of Doritos, sodas and pastries day after day.

I wonder if I'm off topic.

I'm a hard-right winger, but a few of my gym going friends lean toward the left. I've literally seen fist fights break out over debates on gay marriage/abortion.

Hearing Obama say things like "your success is not your success" is pretty much flabbergasting. I don't know how anyone could argue that he meant well by that statement. Not that Romney is any better. Nowadays it doesn't matter who you vote for. Either way the government will be taking away your rights (intoxicating yourself is not a right) and the media and public education system will be indoctrinating your kids with liberal-progressive bullshit. To put it in colloquial terms, the US is slowly being overrun with anti-2nd amendment sushi eaters, and I don't very much like it.