'Special K' could relieve depression

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Bluelighter
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A COMMON anaesthetic is providing almost instant relief for depression sufferers in the first Australian clinical trials, scientists say.

Ketamine, which is also found in a recreational drug dubbed 'Special K', prompted improvements in people suffering clinical depression from within hours to a day later, University of NSW researcher Prof Colleen Loo said.

The drug, which is given intravenously to people with moderate to severe clinical depression, has been trialled in a handful of patients as part of the Australian-first study.

Researchers hope to recruit up to 40 patients as part of the ongoing trial, which is comparing people with depression given ketamine with those given a placebo.

Prof Loo said several international studies had produced similar instantaneous results.

Although the drug is approved for medical use in Australia for anaesthesia, sedation, and pain relief, the research is investigating the safety and effectiveness of the drug to treat depression before it can be widely used.

However, the research is still in its very early stages with fewer than 100 patients involved in placebo-controlled trials worldwide, Prof Loo said.

But if studies proved ketamine to be effective it could provide another avenue to treat depression sufferers within years, she said.

Prof Loo, from the university's School of Psychiatry and the Black Dog Institute, said ketamine worked in a completely different way in the brain than other treatments.

"It's like a paradigm shift in the treatment of depression," Prof Loo told AAP.

All other anti-depressant medications work on serotonin, noradrenaline and dopamine.

Ketamine works on a different neurotransmitter system, involving the chemical glutamate.

Prof Loo said studies in animals showed ketamine worked by promoting the regrowth and regeneration of brain cells.

"When people are depressed, cells in some parts of the brains ... become unhealthy and shrink," she said.

"Ketamine reverses those kinds of changes. It's promoting the growth of new nerve projections and new synapses between nerve cells."

Participants in the trial are given up to six ketamine treatments intravenously, under strict medical supervision in hospital, a week apart.

The carefully-controlled doses are low - about one-tenth of the level used in anaesthesia. Patients involved have had minimal success with other treatments.

The trial screens applicants in detail for substance abuse problems.

When used in a medically-controlled environment there was minimal risk of addiction, Prof Loo said.

The best way to administer the drug, the optimum dose and the patients who would benefit most were questions that would all need to be answered before the ketamine could be used for depression, she said.

The University of Adelaide and the University of Otago are collaborating on the study.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/s...on/story-fn5fsgyc-1226387277231#ixzz1x4HmATvP


What are your thoughts on this one?
 
I like how the same shit people have known for years keeps popping up as breaking news. "Ketamine relieves depression" "psilocybin is effective for addiction and terminal illness therapy" "MDMA may be useful for PTSD"

Yeah, we know.
 
Hopefully research into ketamine will pick up speed, and it will be made available as an antidepressant. Having bipolar II, there aren't many antidepressants I can take safely (SSRIs & amphs are out of the question). Remeron only helps to keep me from being too depressed, and Gabapentin works less and less each day. DXM works wonders if taken in low doses every once in a while, but I have to be in the right mood for it.

But if studies proved ketamine to be effective it could provide another avenue to treat depression sufferers within years, she said.

Why wait? Some of us would be completely willing to deal with any "side effects" ketamine might produce. One of the great things about DXM is the absolute clarity of mind during the afterglow (if not used too often). It's like how the brain should work, when everything is going well. I'd hate for that expanded awareness to be cut from the equation if they think of it as an undesirable side effect. For somebody with depression, having all the lights on while actually feeling happy is soo much better than walking around with a head full of darkness.

Transcendence said:
I like how the same shit people have known for years keeps popping up as breaking news. "Ketamine relieves depression" "psilocybin is effective for addiction and terminal illness therapy" "MDMA may be useful for PTSD"

Yeah, we know.

Anecdotal evidence isn't enough to satisfy scientists, health agencies or politicians, unfortunately.
 
I'm sure when it's approved it'll be encased in adamantium and guarded by dragons, like they do with prescription GHB
 
if i ever had depression i'd rather self administer a small bump of ket which i got from the black market up my nose each week than be on SSRIs anyway.
 
I almost have my 55 year old mother convinced to drop her Venlafaxine and try out some of my illegally purchased crystal ketamine.

It obviously works. I would suggest ANYONE try it if they think they are a little "ho-hum" or if they have some real depression.

I am not clinically depressed myself but I, like anyone else, have my low points of the year (fucking Canadian winters) and a few bumps of K one night will provide me with WEEKS of depression relief.

I recently did some K and while I was doing it I stomped on my pack of cigarettes and called it quits, while I had the K it was all good, once i ran out I became very angry/frustrated (I punched a hole in my door today :/ )

Even though I was fuming mad I left the house and went for a 2 hour walk... it was really nice and I didn't feel even 'upset' Every so often I would pass by a jogger and wish to see them trip or something... but aside from that ok.

Before I did this K I was pretty bummed out. I am happy I did it... This year alone on different occasions ketamine has made me stop eating meat and then stop smoking cigarettes...
 
Anecdotal evidence isn't enough to satisfy scientists, health agencies or politicians, unfortunately.

It isn't anecdotal evidence. The same studies have been performed over and over again since the 50s for psychedelics, the late 70s for both mdma and ketamine.

And yeah, it's too bad people have such selective memories when it comes to scary exit dust, cause it's the ONLY thing that fucking works as far as I'm concerned. Anybody with clinical depression who thinks their SSRIs are helping hasn't tried ketamine or MXE. SSRIs don't clear depression in even the best cases, it only numbs you to the point where you might not obsesses over killing yourself quite as often.

Dissociatives wipe the grime of depression CLEAN for at least a couple days. It gives you a chance to come up for air and remind yourself that it doesn't have to be this way.

Oh yeah, then you keep doing it and doing it because you don't want to sink back down into the hole ever again. You fall into psychosis in a way that is obvious to everyone but yourself and become totally detached from reality. You may or may not destroy your bladder. But hey, it's still arguably better than depression.
 
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It isn't anecdotal evidence. The same studies have been performed over and over again since the 50s for psychedelics, the late 70s for both mdma and ketamine.

My bad; I didn't realize that actual studies have been performed for so long.

So... why haven't they been developing AD meds from NMDA antagonists? Or have they? All these new articles seem to indicate that's it's a new, unexplored avenue.
 
I'd imagine it's for much of the same reason that opiates aren't used as AD meds anymore. People with depression/anxiety are at an increased risk of having a substance abuse problem. Anyone who has seen dissociative addiction first-hand will tell you it's one of the grimiest addictions out there. Perhaps it's possible to develop an effective dissociative AD that doesn't produce euphoria. Would it even work without the euphoria? I'm not sure.
 
Anecdotal evidence isn't enough to satisfy scientists, health agencies or politicians, unfortunately.

I thought that anecdotal evidence was the only thing politicians used when deciding drug laws… ;)
 
Transcendence said:
Perhaps it's possible to develop an effective dissociative AD that doesn't produce euphoria. Would it even work without the euphoria? I'm not sure.

Good question. To me, depression isn't simply about feeling dysphoric, it's about the dark blanket blackening my mind, affecting my behavior and making me feel confused and unsettled. A simple euphoriant, while helpful in the short term, doesn't cover all the bases. Something that could illuminate the mind while imparting a sense of happiness and peace would be better. There's nothing like undergoing personal growth and feeling good about it at the same time :)

Drug treatments for depression should be more than just band aids; they should have a therapeutic component as well. Heck, it sure beats going to some psychiatrist just to be asked for the umpteenth time, "a rolling stone gathers no moss. what do you think that means?" (insert witty reply here)

Even if they never found something better than ketamine, why not set up program for getting a ketamine injection once a week at the local clinic?

7zark7 said:
I thought that anecdotal evidence was the only thing politicians used when deciding drug laws… ;)

haha, no shit. What was I thinking? =D
 
I'd imagine it's for much of the same reason that opiates aren't used as AD meds anymore. People with depression/anxiety are at an increased risk of having a substance abuse problem. Anyone who has seen dissociative addiction first-hand will tell you it's one of the grimiest addictions out there. Perhaps it's possible to develop an effective dissociative AD that doesn't produce euphoria. Would it even work without the euphoria? I'm not sure.

I can agree in a sense. I have seen some friends in the grips of ketamine addiction and it was gross to say the least. Very scary. I feel it is true that 'dark' people (I know it sounds stupid) or people with some underlying depression really flock towards ketamine. I think it is honestly similar to the people that cut themselves to feel SOMETHING. A k-hole is so distracting, scary or beautiful that I could see it having a similar effect to slitting your arm open. In fact, the girl I knew who was addicted also regularly cut herself until she picked up the K. Good, bad? I don't know... right in the middle if you ask me... Just sad.

I honestly dont think the dissociative addiction really comes from euphoria, I think it comes from the super easy ability to escape ANYTHING that you are dealing with... better than opiates for daily life distraction. Nodding out is killer, but if someone were to tell you that you were a junkie loser or a scumbag while in that state you would feel it. I think that in a K-hole I could be told that I have aids and it wouldnt set in for about an hour. On regular 'walking' doses of K it does quite the opposite I feel though... I have cried for hours from listening to certain sad music, watching sad movies or just hearing something sad from someone because I was high on K when I heard it. Definitely a very special thing to feel such emotion.. I appreciate it, but I do not think that that state helps with depression at all.

It is AFTERWARD that I really notice what K has to offer. The next day usually isnt fantastic, I never really feel like jumping off a bridge, but not much different than normal... The NEXT day is when I realize 'shit, I was just staring right into the sun and smiling for like... 3 minuets!' or 'I need to get off my ass and paint something or write something... put down the bong!'
For at least 6 days after I have taken ketamine, I feel NO depression. I can feel frustrated, angry or sad if the situation permits, it certainly doesn't make me impermeable to all outside shit... But the inside depression fades fast and stays away for at least 6 days for me... I am currently on my 7th day after a medium ketamine dose and I feel ok. I did quit a 7 year pack a day cigarette addiction on that dose of K (stomped the last pack, ketamine?) and have been pretty fucking frustrated for the last few days, but, again, the depression is still gone.

FOR ME, it seems that if my depression were to be prescribed ketamine, that I would be able to get away with taking a dose once weekly.... maybe a little less often, once every 10 days possibly and I think I would be cured of addiction. Ketamine tolerance is a bitch, but I think used properly, dosed nasally (its the only way i know) I could keep from being addicted to it by only using it every 10 days or so.

Also, I will note, ketamine addiction is terrible, but, so is SSRI anti-depressant addiction. I think ketamine works wonderfully but obviously still has its problems... I would not be at all upset if the pharma companies were able to create a less harmful, less addictive ketamine type drug for depression... if it works on depression like ketamine does, I would give that drug my full approval after all necessary clinic trials were done. I don't care if it gets me high honestly, I think the anti-depressant effect is unseen from any other drug in our history. (I do love getting high on K though)
 
I can comment a bit on this having been a bit involved in this study at the beginning (before they were recruiting participants). While it's true that ketamine has been around for a while, I don't know of any clinical trials of its use in depression treatment dating back before the last 10-20 years, and all those have been relatively small. The trial I'm aware of involved intravenous administration of between 0.25-0.5 mg per kg of the person's bodyweight (so, for example an 80 kg (that's 176 pounds for you Americans) person would be injected with 20-40 mg) once per week for 6 weeks, with every administration being dome in a psychiatric hospital under the supervision of an anaesthetist and a psychiatrist and/or psychiatric nurses. I imagine that if this received approval for routine use (as it should), it would be done in a similar manner: Given concerns over recreational use/abuse/addiction, I doubt that they'd make it something where you get a prescrpiption and pop down to the pharmacy to pick up a vial of K to take home with you. Also, given the small, infrequent doses, and the strict medical supervision, I doubt some of the other health concerns associated with heavy, long-term ketamine use (e.g. bladder failure, psychosis) would really be an issue, as long as the patient wasn't going out and doing extra K on the side.
 
It isn't anecdotal evidence. The same studies have been performed over and over again since the 50s for psychedelics, the late 70s for both mdma and ketamine.

And yeah, it's too bad people have such selective memories when it comes to scary exit dust, cause it's the ONLY thing that fucking works as far as I'm concerned. Anybody with clinical depression who thinks their SSRIs are helping hasn't tried ketamine or MXE. SSRIs don't clear depression in even the best cases, it only numbs you to the point where you might not obsesses over killing yourself quite as often.

Dissociatives wipe the grime of depression CLEAN for at least a couple days. It gives you a chance to come up for air and remind yourself that it doesn't have to be this way.

Oh yeah, then you keep doing it and doing it because you don't want to sink back down into the hole ever again. You fall into psychosis in a way that is obvious to everyone but yourself and become totally detached from reality. You may or may not destroy your bladder. But hey, it's still arguably better than depression.


Thank you for that,I was thinking about finding some
k
 
The Sp.K alternative, MXE is easily obtainable in the states and I can vouch for its antidepressant effects. It seems to relieve anxiety, and null negative thoughts at small doses, (10-20mg).
 
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