i against i
Bluelighter
this all sounds pretty average, normal human things.
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P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat
I am a beast.
- Thread starter max_
- Start date
@lastest. Man, I am a lot younger but I was pretty much like what you describe. I used to be a chain smoker drug fiend. I used to think I was as far away from a monkey as I was from greek gods or Aristotle. Now I feel closer to all of them. I had a couple of major changes in my life that made me change my view dramatically. Although it's none of my business, I'd suggest you start running. That's how it began for me then it snowballed.
@shimazu. Well, then you must be (as me) one of the chubby ones. I have friends who complain all the time about not gaining weight. Not only muscle mass but any weight at all. Some people are too thin. It can bee as much of a problem as being fat.
@i against i. I know I'm not the perfect soldier superman kind of style. In fact, I should be in a lot of a better shape.
I know that it all sounded a little narcissistic, I won't say that it wasn't.. C'mon, I'm almost slim for the first time in my life, let me have my moment! But this is a real topic I wanted to discuss, How far we really are from monkeys? Ain't we in fact animals who got a little too lucky? Is it really better to build so much crap around us instead of living like what we really are? Is it really a good thing to build hospitals and else? Or are we heading for disaster? Or in fact we should live like this and stir away from our instincts? CAN we stir away from our instincts or are we just answering to more complex instincts and that's it?
@shimazu. Well, then you must be (as me) one of the chubby ones. I have friends who complain all the time about not gaining weight. Not only muscle mass but any weight at all. Some people are too thin. It can bee as much of a problem as being fat.
@i against i. I know I'm not the perfect soldier superman kind of style. In fact, I should be in a lot of a better shape.
I know that it all sounded a little narcissistic, I won't say that it wasn't.. C'mon, I'm almost slim for the first time in my life, let me have my moment! But this is a real topic I wanted to discuss, How far we really are from monkeys? Ain't we in fact animals who got a little too lucky? Is it really better to build so much crap around us instead of living like what we really are? Is it really a good thing to build hospitals and else? Or are we heading for disaster? Or in fact we should live like this and stir away from our instincts? CAN we stir away from our instincts or are we just answering to more complex instincts and that's it?
Belisarius
Bluelighter
Tyrannosaurs were awesome.
ParappaTheRapper
Ex-Bluelighter
...
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XThexXTank
Bluelighter
10 k in 70 minutes? 
Please tell me yer jokin
Please tell me yer jokin
Think of yourself, alone, with a lion (put your animal of choice here) approaching.
Maybe you will then reconsider: you will not be a beast but someone that needs a gun (product of human technology and culture) to survive.
Okey, you're right. Now you think of yourself homeless, shoeless, in a city that you don't know, in a winter night, your last meal was last night's dinner, you have no home nowhere to go, no prospects. You find some meat. Somebody tries to take it from you. Would you not fight back? Would you not growl? Would you not hurt that person? Could you not go over the line and kill him if there is no other choice and he keeps getting up and confronting you? Would you not behave like a beast? -And that's only one day's worth of living like an animal.. Think weeks, months, years out in the cold with no roof over your head.. How far we really are from dogs? And what if the one trying to take the food from you was a dog? Would you not kick the dog? Would you not kick it again harder if it keeps coming back? would you not make it's mouth bleed if it keeps trying to take your food? Would you not hit it with a stick? What if it's a whole pack of dogs around you in the night wanting to eat your only meal of the day? Would you not go animal on them?
IamMe90
Bluelighter
I probably wouldn't try to "go animal" on a pack of dogs eating my only meal of the day, since I can go longer than a day without meals and certainly can't put up a fight against a pack of dogs. I could search for food elsewhere.
Exactly, as any fat house-breed dog would have done. We're all domesticated, but we could be wild. In the same way that there are house dogs and wild dogs, there are wild humans out there. We can all become undomesticated if need may arise. Do you really doubt it?
webbykevin
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2010
- Messages
- 1,720
Yep that sounds like 20 year old reality, wait till your back goes out for the first time mate, life can come to an unexpected and shuddering halt sometimes, enjoy it while you are still a kid, when you start heading for 50 you will know what I mean.
Thanks you very much. That's exactly what I needed to hear. I should be feeling this, right? I mean I just want to fuck anything with two legs and eat as much as I can, I don't think there's anything abnormal about it. Although I always try to find deep meanings to everything but maybe it's not that weird at all, it's just how it goes. We are indeed animals and I do not doubt it. I like to theorize though..
psychomimetic
Bluelighter
Of course we're animals. I see value in rising above base instincts though, your post indicates a ton of macho stuff that I don't think is really necessary in today's [developed] world. Nature is not kind or wonderful, in our natural state humans were constantly committing genocide and driving other species to extinction as well as starving to death en mass and in general having shitty lives. We still do those things, but I think we've gotten a lot better about treating each other with respect and love, and human quality of life has definitely improved since we decided to aim for better then being beasts. We are animals, and we can't escape that, but our entire society is based upon trying to better our state and not act like beasts.
So have fun looking at yourself as a beast, but I bet that 5000 years ago you would be another human's lunch. Your version of "beast" is hardly what our ancestors would have viewed as such. By their standards you would be a fat, spoiled weakling. So it's all a matter of perspective. Beast to us now holds entirely different meaning then it did to ancient humans, and in the future it will mean something else. All is relative.
Basically, you have a high sex drive and you can lift weights and talk about math, it doesn't really ultimately mean anything, because in 70 years worms will be devouring your skull just like mine and we will be the same. Your body and your mind will decay and no one will care how much you could lift before your back went out, and it will all be less than a cosmic blip. I leave you with this- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSuwnj_qo40
Sorry to be depressing, but my reaction to your post was the same as Lastest's- incredible cynicism. And this is coming from an in shape, intelligent young man. Death awaits us all, beast or not. So by all means, exercise, be healthy, be smart, but bragging about it on the internet might be a bit much.
btw- 10k in 70 minutes isn't terribly impressive. A little humility goes a long way.
So have fun looking at yourself as a beast, but I bet that 5000 years ago you would be another human's lunch. Your version of "beast" is hardly what our ancestors would have viewed as such. By their standards you would be a fat, spoiled weakling. So it's all a matter of perspective. Beast to us now holds entirely different meaning then it did to ancient humans, and in the future it will mean something else. All is relative.
Basically, you have a high sex drive and you can lift weights and talk about math, it doesn't really ultimately mean anything, because in 70 years worms will be devouring your skull just like mine and we will be the same. Your body and your mind will decay and no one will care how much you could lift before your back went out, and it will all be less than a cosmic blip. I leave you with this- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSuwnj_qo40
Sorry to be depressing, but my reaction to your post was the same as Lastest's- incredible cynicism. And this is coming from an in shape, intelligent young man. Death awaits us all, beast or not. So by all means, exercise, be healthy, be smart, but bragging about it on the internet might be a bit much.
btw- 10k in 70 minutes isn't terribly impressive. A little humility goes a long way.
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jam uh weezy
Bluelighter
Or maybe a super-smart virus! At least how our global behaviors have evolved along with all our other traits. It would be interesting if other ape-species were able to completely comprehend human behavior. How would it make them feel?
I'm sure they'd try to talk us out of it and they'd end up in cages. (All of them, since some already are)
I see what you mean, but the templars or before them the vikings, or before them the egiptians or the romans were NOT natural state of things. These were all developed cultures as rich or maybe richer than ours. Natural state of things for Homo sapiens means 20 - 30 hunter-gatherers throwing rocks on the head of a mammoth. And I'm not saying that dying at 30 of starvation because of a winter that went on too long is the best way to live, but that's how every single creature on the face of earth lives (except us). Just because we have evolved through this path it does not mean that it's a good thing either, there is no sustainable way (at least not in sight) for our civilization to keep going like this for too long. We are going to run out of water, minerals, plants, there is not enough raw material in this planet to keep our grandsons living the way we live. So please correct if I'm mistaken saying that the only thing we are is glorified hunter-gatherers who thought they owned the planet and will eventually go back to living the lives they are supposed to live or become extinct trying to innovate in a world that has been just fine without any of the crap they've made up in the last 5000 years.
I got a little carried away but I think I've made my point.
i against i
Bluelighter
what's your point? go and live in the woods then if you really believe and throw away your computer and whole bunch of other stuff.
psychomimetic
Bluelighter
^Don't forget to get naked first, no factory made clothes allowed for beasts living sustainably in the forest.
Our society is currently unsustainable as far as living on earth, but our technology is not going away. Our intellegence and ability to build new technologies is what will allow our species to survive, not brute strength or primitive hunter-gatherer systems. Those days are gone and they won't come back.
What do you mean "go back to living the lives they are supposed to live?", who says we're supposed to live any life in any way? I don't believe in god or an inherent purpose in existence, so I don't see any relevant way we're supposed to live except from an individual standpoint.
I know that our resources are indeed running out, but I don't see why you think it means we're going back to hunter-gatherer societies. I think it would be more likely that once this planet is unfit to sustain humans we will begin to colonize space, we already have much of the required materials with which to do so and I think that living in space will be possible in the next 20 or 30 years.
You may think the world was just as good for humans 5000 years ago (my example would be more appropriate 10-20 thousand years ago), but you say that while wearing clothes that you didn't have to make (from animals you didn't have to hunt), typing on a computer, sitting in a modern house that ancient humans would not have had. Your stomach is full and you didn't have to go and track a herd of animals for days to fill it. If you ever have children it is unlikely that they will die as infants. You will probably live to old age (nearly twice what ancient humans would have considered old age). When you get sick you can go to the doctor and get a cure. Most of us have few if any family members who have died of diseases (including fun ones like the flu).
Other humans do not pose a direct threat to you, you don't have to worry about other tribes invading and killing you or taking you as a slave. You are not forced under heavy penalties to worship certain gods or deities.
People like to glorify ancient hunter-gatherer societies, but none of us would last a second in those societies. Even the strongest among us would die young because people were constantly murdering each other back then, at much, much higher rates then they do now, and the heads of the tribes were especially prone to getting killed.
We need to develop new ways of interacting with the planet, but I don't see what that has to do with the benefits of hunter-gatherer societies. Humans are developing with technology and that is not going to go away, we are not going to revert to the same state as thousands of years ago, so I don't see the relevance in your point. Beyond that, with simple strength I don't know how far you'd get in a hunter-gatherer society. Can you make weapons out of stone? Can you skin animals? Tan hides? Make a bed (as in, fashion one out of raw materials)? Sew with materials you find in nature (plants that produce needles, others for thread)? How about building a structure from sticks and hides? How fast can you build one? Those are all more relevant skills then lifting a lot of weight as far as being a beast goes. You sound like a standard tough guy, albeit much smarter, not like some amazing animal warrior.
You can feel like a beast all you want, but you rely on technology and the modern world just as much as anyone else. The earth is a cruel mistress, even tough guys such as yourself wouldn't make it in a totally natural setting. You are only at the top of the food chain because you live in a sterile city and get your food from other people. In nature you would be prey to larger animals and to other humans. We (you included) are at the top of the food chain solely because we have the protection technology and modern society provides.
Our society is currently unsustainable as far as living on earth, but our technology is not going away. Our intellegence and ability to build new technologies is what will allow our species to survive, not brute strength or primitive hunter-gatherer systems. Those days are gone and they won't come back.
What do you mean "go back to living the lives they are supposed to live?", who says we're supposed to live any life in any way? I don't believe in god or an inherent purpose in existence, so I don't see any relevant way we're supposed to live except from an individual standpoint.
I know that our resources are indeed running out, but I don't see why you think it means we're going back to hunter-gatherer societies. I think it would be more likely that once this planet is unfit to sustain humans we will begin to colonize space, we already have much of the required materials with which to do so and I think that living in space will be possible in the next 20 or 30 years.
You may think the world was just as good for humans 5000 years ago (my example would be more appropriate 10-20 thousand years ago), but you say that while wearing clothes that you didn't have to make (from animals you didn't have to hunt), typing on a computer, sitting in a modern house that ancient humans would not have had. Your stomach is full and you didn't have to go and track a herd of animals for days to fill it. If you ever have children it is unlikely that they will die as infants. You will probably live to old age (nearly twice what ancient humans would have considered old age). When you get sick you can go to the doctor and get a cure. Most of us have few if any family members who have died of diseases (including fun ones like the flu).
Other humans do not pose a direct threat to you, you don't have to worry about other tribes invading and killing you or taking you as a slave. You are not forced under heavy penalties to worship certain gods or deities.
People like to glorify ancient hunter-gatherer societies, but none of us would last a second in those societies. Even the strongest among us would die young because people were constantly murdering each other back then, at much, much higher rates then they do now, and the heads of the tribes were especially prone to getting killed.
We need to develop new ways of interacting with the planet, but I don't see what that has to do with the benefits of hunter-gatherer societies. Humans are developing with technology and that is not going to go away, we are not going to revert to the same state as thousands of years ago, so I don't see the relevance in your point. Beyond that, with simple strength I don't know how far you'd get in a hunter-gatherer society. Can you make weapons out of stone? Can you skin animals? Tan hides? Make a bed (as in, fashion one out of raw materials)? Sew with materials you find in nature (plants that produce needles, others for thread)? How about building a structure from sticks and hides? How fast can you build one? Those are all more relevant skills then lifting a lot of weight as far as being a beast goes. You sound like a standard tough guy, albeit much smarter, not like some amazing animal warrior.
You can feel like a beast all you want, but you rely on technology and the modern world just as much as anyone else. The earth is a cruel mistress, even tough guys such as yourself wouldn't make it in a totally natural setting. You are only at the top of the food chain because you live in a sterile city and get your food from other people. In nature you would be prey to larger animals and to other humans. We (you included) are at the top of the food chain solely because we have the protection technology and modern society provides.
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What do you mean? Me alone living in the woods being cold and hungry when everybody else eats mcdonalds? No way!
But when water runs out we'll all wish we didn't turn the AC so high last summer.
Irak, Israel, half the countries in Africa.. I'm so glad that both of us live in the few places of the world where other tribes (countries if you will) do not pose a threat to people. But do not fool yourself into thinking that nowadays society could exist without those threats being very real and very strong. There is war in the world, humans are killing each other in ways never thought possible. There have been atomic bombs, genocides, gas chambers.
And that is regarding whole civilizations, because I live in a so-called sterile city but just the other day I got a gun pointed at my face and trust me, it did feel like other humans were a threat to me.
China, Cuba, the whole mid-east, Africa again.. I am also glad that we live in the western civilization and not in places where religion, governments, or other regimes are imposed to people. 1/5 of the world population lives in China, a communist country (I don't know what the Chinese have to say about that, but for what I've heard they are not exactly happy with their government).
I know we wont, my best guess is we'll end up extinct when the stuff we've been doing comes back to kick our butts.
I can learn, fast and good. That's what hands are for. And when I say are for I mean "that's what made the hands evolve into what they are now" (ie we have hands that can type on a keyboard because our ancestors with the best hands for tying knots and carving weapons out of stone were the ones who survived)
I am (as all humans) at the top of the food chain because I am smarter than any other animal and I can plan my winters, build shelters, build bear traps. And also because I can outrun almost any animal, I can use technology such as carved stones or bows and arrows to kill any animal that may come my way.
I will (as all humans) become extinct because I can't go back to that ancient way of life, and with my modern technologies I pollute the environment with car exhaust, and I send heavy metals to the atmosphere, and I cut down the forests.
Living in space may or may not be doable, but if that's what we're relying on,, I mean what the hell? So then we are like those aliens in movies that conquer other planets because they are so malign to other living beings that they destroyed their planet. We are then a parasite, an infection. But the thing with parasites and infections is that they do have other hosts to which they can go once they've emptied theirs of its resources. We don't have other planet. You can theorize all you want about terraforming Mars, but please be real, we are the most evolved being on this planet, we rule it as we please and we are heading for extinction.
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webbykevin
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2010
- Messages
- 1,720
Bullshit, what if we stick you out on the african savanna or in the australian top end rainforests or on the frozen ice fields for a couple weeks and see who's top of the food chain, I think the lions crocodiles snakes polar bears etc would all have a piece of your ass real quick.
Also, we are the only animal that wage war against each other for no other reason than an intellectual difference of opinions, don't see the animals doing that, we have raped the earth and destroyed our environment, very smart, I would say that humans for all their technology and science have done nothing but get sadder, lonelier and more alienated and miserable over history, we are arrogant, ignorant and self obsessed loners who have turned their back on nature, The natural symbiosis between all living things we just don't even see or feel anymore.