Opioids How much fentanyl can i have safely?

[legal_limit]

Okay so in the last 2-3 months ive probobly done opiates about 15 times

Average dose would be something like 30mg oxy.

But highest ive had is 50mg oxy oral and i was almost nodding

Had like 15mg of methadone and feeling pretty fly but not nodding.

I'm getting a 200ug fentanyl lollipop and i did alot of googling but couldnt really find a good conversion.
I was basically just wondering what i can expect from it with my current tollerence?

If someone said like, 200ug of fentanyl to opiate naive person is equivalent to 40mg oxy or something im guessing.. but would like some helpful direction so i dont overdose.

Thanks

 

[Druidus]

Well, IIRC, that's like 366mg of oxycodone. I'm pretty sure that's for oral oxycodone. So try splitting the fentanyl into 1/8ths for starters, to get a reasonable equivalency of 40-50mg of oxy. Now cut that in half, or even thirds. Take the smaller half, or third, of the group. The caution is worth it. Try that dose, and ratchet upwards next time if necessary. It's fast acting, and very potent, so you need to have care. You can get too much into you at once before you even realize it, easily.

 

[legal_limit]

so you think 200ug fentanyl lollipop is approx 366mg oxycodone?

Are you sure your not thinking about the patches? This is 200ug instant release

 

[Swimmingdancer]

EDIT: Please don't take fentanyl at all, with your low tolerance and the inability to measure a remotely accurate dose from a lollipop you cannot take it safely. See the other posts below.

I read that 200ug of fentanyl is, like you said, technicallyroughly equal to 40mg oxycodone, assuming complete cross tIt is strongly recommended that one reduces the dose of any new opioid by 50 precent to account for incomplete cross-tolerance. The 200ug fent=40mg oxy estimate is not accounting for any incomplete cross tolerance and all opioids have an incomplete cross tolerance ranging from 20-80%, so that can be a huge difference. So I would say if you normally take 30mg oxy you should assume your maximum to be 70ug fentanyl if you want a rough equivalency but take even less than that to be safe. There are some drug equivalency converters available online, is that what you used? Best to be on the safe side and start with much less. The actual equivalency can vary greatly from person to person and you can always take more if it's not enough but you can easily die if it's too much.

 

[Druidus]

Sorry bro, WAS thinking patch.

I just read that 100mcg was equiv. to 1mg of IV'd morphine, but that sounds wrong.

 

[Druidus]

I read that 200ug of fentanyl is, like you said, roughly equal to 40mg oxycodone. (And 150ug of fentanyl should be roughly equal to 30mg oxycodone). There are some drug equivalency converters available online, is that what you used? Best to be on the safe side and start with much less. The actual equivalency can vary greatly from person to person and you can always take more if it's not enough but you can die if it's too much.

It is strongly recommended that one reduces the dose of any new opioid by 50 precent to account for incomplete cross-tolerance. The 200ug fent=40mg oxy estimate is not accounting for any incomplete cross tolerance and most opioids have an incomplete cross tolerance ranging from 20-80%, so that can be a huge difference. So I would say if you normally take 30mg oxy you should start with about 70ug fentanyl if you want a rough equivalency or even less to be safe.

I found a decent converter that seems sound with other conversions. The lollipop form of fentanyl, at 200mcg, converts to 88mg of oxycodone IR, according to this conversion. It sounds accurate to me, but I don't do fentanyl much. Perhaps they assume perfect absorption, whereas you'll inevitably swallow more than you'd want, and that's why your source says about half of that?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I found a decent converter that seems sound with other conversions. The lollipop form of fentanyl, at 200mcg, converts to 88mg of oxycodone IR, according to this conversion. It sounds accurate to me, but I don't do fentanyl much. Perhaps they assume perfect absorption, whereas you'll inevitably swallow more than you'd want, and that's why your source says about half of that?

The source I looked at said that assuming complete cross tolerance it was 200ug=40mg and that in practical reality it would be probably be closer to about 100ug=40mg. So that would be very close to your estimate of 100ug=44mg (same as 200ug=88mg). I would just check out a few sites and go with the lowest estimate found, meaning the lowest amount of fentanyl it says is equal to 30mg of oxy. And then I'd lower that even more to be safe.

 

[Druidus]

The source I looked at said that assuming complete cross tolerance it was 200ug=40mg and that in practical reality it would be probably be closer to about 100ug=40mg. So that would be very close to your estimate of 100ug=44mg (same as 200ug=88mg). I would just check out a few sites and go with the lowest estimate found, meaning the lowest amount of fentanyl it says is equal to 30mg of oxy. And then I'd lower that a bit more to be safe.

All sound logic to me.

 

[JasNod]

Please don't use conversions for fentanyl :/. The problem with fentanyl is that to get much more CNS depression for much less high. I know I'm a little late on this, but start small and don't nod on it without a tolerance it's scary as shit haha. Have a friend with you, one that will risk getting in a little trouble to save someone's life.

 

[tricomb]

Fentanyl cannot be abused safely, or used safely outside of a controlled medical environment or in non-tolerant patients. Being able to be good off 30mg oxycodone is by no means what they mean when they say tolerant.

Do not proceed. Fentanyl is a cold, sedating, dirty, unforgiving high that feels like someone is standing on your chest.

 

[xxxyyy]

while i agree that fentanyl is not much fun with little euphoria, and a lot of sedation, if you start with 150µm - 250µm and slowly go upward, it should not be too big of a problem.
i've used fentanyl a lot and tolerance builds quickly. but for the love of god, there are so many better, more enjoyable opiates out there. also, be aware, ONLY use pharmaceuticals, where you know exactly what you're putting into your system. it's very potent, and a miscalculation can mean an OD you won't wake up from. i used fent patches as i had fuck all else, and even though it was probably the least fun synthetic opioid i tried i still vastly prefer it to sobriety. i used them as a mixture of subligual and chewing gut, until all the bitter taste was gone. it's good for pain, and it's still preferable in my opinion over the low-potency opiates. but hey.
it's also a big different if you're using the pills or the patches. the patches i used were sort of hard to get into same doses. fentanyl is great when you want to absolutely numb yourself, but it certainly isn't a drug that's euphoric and fun.
and just to reiterate: it's potent as hell. so less is more is always a good approach to it. also, if possible, have a sober person with some needles and naloxone handy. the pills are a lot less dangerous then the derms, at least you know exactly how much you're taking.

 

[tricomb]

Start with 150-250ug? The standard first dose for an opiate naive person is an initial one dose of 100mcg in a medical setting where your oxygen levels, blood pressure, all of your vitals are being monitored by a professional anesthesiologist. How the fuck are you going to measure this kind of dosing outside of a hospital or laboratory? Fentanyl is too strong to be fucked with, it cannot be abused safely. People reading this are extracting them from patches, they are never going to know exactly how much they are taking at a time, not even close.

While we're pulling doses we can't measure out of our asses, I would start with 12.5 micrograms and increase in increments of 12.5mcg. We should not give readers a false sense of security that if they stay within a certain boundaries that they can't even see, that they will be okay while their breathing and vitals are unmonitored and uncontrolled. Abusing fentanyl and it's analogues it's literally the most risk for as little reward as possible. Tampering with fentanyl patches or any other system containing fentanyl in any way shape or form is never safe and cannot and should not be done.

If you don't have the tolerance to apply 13 hours (time until onset transdermal) worth of, for example, the 100mcg/hour patch as directed, If you don't have the tolerance to survive 1.3mg fentanyl over 13 hours, give or take a few micrograms that can and will take the life of a person not tolerant to opioids, then you have absolutely no business using fentanyl at all, let alone even thinking you can abuse one.

To say that you can, as long as you take XXX micrograms that you have no way of measuring, is delusional. It's Russian Roulette.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Yeah, in retrospect I should have made a stronger effort at warning that this is a really dangerous drug. If you're going to do it regardless, then start off by taking way less than you think you will need. There is no way to know how you will react to it and whether or not 100ug will actually be roughly equivalent to about 40mg oxy. And even subsequent times you take it, don't just assume you can do the same quantity as the last time. It's always way better to do too little than do too much and die.

Tricomb has an excellent point that how are you going to measure separate accurate doses from the lollipop?!? I feel stupid for not even noticing that. The fentanyl lollipops are meant for very opioid tolerant individuals under medical care who are dying of cancer. Not a safe idea for someone who normally does 30mg oxy. If you absolutely insist on doing this anyway, I can only suggest taking like one lick (inside the cheek area) and then wait for an hour or more, then repeat. I hope you are still reading this and haven't already done something stupid. I feel really bad for not really realizing at first what form of fentanyl you were taking and how dangerous your situation is.

 

[tricomb]

Fentanyl should not even be an option on the table:

Okay so in the last 2-3 months ive probobly done opiates about 15 times

Average dose would be something like 30mg oxy.

But highest ive had is 50mg oxy oral and i was almost nodding

When more than half the OP's post contradicts USE of fentanyl, there is no way we can even be giving ABUSE numbers to this guy who can't measure them from an Actiq lollipop, about the most unpredictable form of fentanyl.


There is a reason that in RED BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS IT IS WRITTEN ON EVERY FENTANYL SYSTEM NOT FOR USE IN ACUTE OR POST OPERATIVE PAIN, FOR USE ONLY IN OPIOID TOLERANT PATIENTS/ONLY FOR PATIENT WHOM PRESCRIBED. Do you think the drug companies put this on here to make more $$$$? No, they put it on there so they wouldn't LOSE money in lawsuits when people DIE on their product.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Fentanyl should not even be an option on the table:



When more than half the OP's post contradicts USE of fentanyl, there is no way we can even be giving ABUSE numbers to this guy who can't measure them from an Actiq lollipop, about the most unpredictable form of fentanyl.


There is a reason that in RED BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS IT IS WRITTEN ON EVERY FENTANYL SYSTEM NOT FOR USE IN ACUTE OR POST OPERATIVE PAIN, FOR USE ONLY IN OPIOID TOLERANT PATIENTS/ONLY FOR PATIENT WHOM PRESCRIBED. Do you think the drug companies put this on here to make more $$$$? No, they put it on there so they wouldn't LOSE money in lawsuits when people DIE on their product.

I totally agree, I just meant that if the OP is going to disregard the advice to not use it at all, and do it anyway, knowing the risks, then taking a way way lower dose than they estimate should be harm reduction at least. I really hope they come back and haven't bought or used the lollipop yet. I can't believe I didn't notice it was the lollipop they were talking about, which is impossible to measure. I think I was really sleep-deprived when I replied to this post. I guess I just got caught up in the numbers and wasn't paying enough attention to the OP's actual situation and tolerance. I hope they're ok.

ETA: I put a warning at the top of my first post.

 

[tricomb]

Indeed it is not my intention to say we should not provide the OP with numbers, just that the OP must know that these numbers are useless to them, they most likely cannot accurately measure milligrams, let alone micrograms.

 

[Bottle]

Fent: it can kill you and its no fun really.
Like a knife fight with armored bears - it sounds awesome (ie. 100x morphine "woooah")
but if uve ever battled them bears... its ... not just.
Honestly i feel no similar good feeling from opiates as I do from fent (kinda makes me uptight)
...except maybe just wearing a fat gel patch as intended and taking it off very often.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Honestly i feel no similar good feeling from opiates as I do from fent (kinda makes me uptight)
...except maybe just wearing a fat gel patch as intended and taking it off very often.

Did you mean to say you feel don't feel the same good feeling from fentanyl that you do from other opioids? It sounded like you were saying you only feel good from fentanyl, not other opioids.

 

[legal_limit]

Well, id only read the first 5 or 6 posts when i had it,

I had about half, waited about 20 minutes, then had the other half.

Barely felt like 10mg of oxy, barely any euphoria, good at taking my back pain away tho.

Just kept wiping it on the inside of my cheek and gums, didnt swallow barely any saliva.

wont be touching it again

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[tricomb]

Case & Point, moral of the story don't abuse Fentanyl. It's reckless, dangerous, and I'm willing to bet over 99% of you do not have an apparatus with which to measure the amount in micrograms.

Imagine a total stranger hands you a gun and says, "Do you want to play Russian roulette?". Chances are, most people with common sense would say no, but there are always exceptions who are so desperate for the chase of a thrill... so do you pull the trigger? Do you trust a total stranger who just handed you a loaded handgun and you don't even know how many bullets are loaded? Do you pull the trigger?

For those of you still reading, chances are you would not, or did not pull the trigger.

Yeah, there are people who have abused fentanyl and lived, I'm one of many. Does this mean it's ever worth it, or worth condoning its use to others in any way shape or form? Absolutely not.