My friends the state of the scene is in serious trouble...

[alasdairm]

hey yanker

again, thanks for being able to discuss these issues without the insults and inflammation.

i think this exact number issue has become a bit of a distraction. it's been explained to death why some of the statements being discussed are inaccurate. we can't seem to make you understand why the numbers from sites like pr.com don't map 100% accurately onto the real world but you can't - or choose not to - understand. that's not going to change so let's move on.

the reason this has become such a contentious issue is because it's part of a larger conversation which says "inaccuracy is ok" and "if we're not sure, let's just take a guess and assume it's ok". i'm not ok with this and anybody who claims they're interested in harm-reduction should be not ok with it either.

...but insisting people test everything because of the high amount of bunk pills is clearly in the name of harm reduction.

i agree.

alasdair

 

[Folley]

the reason this has become such a contentious issue is because it's part of a larger conversation which says "inaccuracy is ok" and "if we're not sure, let's just take a guess and assume it's ok". i'm not ok with this and anybody who claims they're interested in harm-reduction should be not ok with it either.i agree.

This is complete bull shit though.

Inaccuracy is only "OK" when the EXACT numbers CANNOT be found. I provided 4 sources when first asked, if you scan through any of those you can find the information you need.

I've always backed up EVERYTHING I've EVER been asked too, you can't pretend that's what this is about either.


If I was actually shown that I was WRONG, that would be one thing. I would have no problem admitting that. But what I've said has almost always been right, and can be proved by anyone who has looked into the "problem".


What's happening here, is that what I'm saying is COMPLETELY based in truth, I'm just not phrasing it up to your expectations.



Now if THAT was the way you would approach me, I would be much happier. But you people trying to prove me wrong when it's OBVIOUS that our scene is complete shit right now is just retarded. If I'm wrong so often, and I'm sure I am at least sometimes, then show me THOSE posts. But trying to shoehorn a perfectly fine post to bring up those faults is just going to PISS ME OFF.

Especially a post that I took 15 minutes at least to add links that already PROVE what I was saying.

 

[alasdairm]

What's happening here, is that what I'm saying is COMPLETELY based in truth...

not at all.

for example, you said you'll continue to refer to any pill that gives somebody a bad experience as 'piperazine' even if you have absolutely no idea if it actually contains a piperazine.

you're comfortable with inaccuracy, even admitting publicly that you'll embellish the truth to make a point. i believe we need to set the bar higher. that's all.

alasdair

 

[Folley]

^ To do otherwise would cause unnecessary harm.


I refuse to do that. As should anyone else who cares for ecstasy users that are still taking bunk pills.

 

[alasdairm]

how on earth is saying "you took an unknown substance" any more harmful than saying "you took a piperazine" when you have no idea what they took, especially when you have no idea if what they actually took was piperazine?

well, at least we have in in black and white - you're comfortable posting completely inaccurate information. i think we as a community can do a lot better than that.

alasdair

 

[Folley]

An "unknown substance" is not good enough for many people. They want to KNOW what they took, and in many cases they don't even know what piperazines are, telling them that could only help.


The alternative is to tell them they took an research chemical, then they do a tiny bit of research on methylone and 5-MeO-DiPT and think its perfectly safe to take those pills.




I also like how I said I would only say that to pills that give similar experiences to piperazines, but then you try to apply it to all pills. Misquoting FTW!

 

[alasdairm]

I also like how I said I would only say that to pills that give similar experiences to piperazines, but then you try to apply it to all pills. Misquoting FTW!

you complete and utter liar.

here's the post: The Cuddle Puddle vers. Early Gurning Center (post #395) and here's the quote:

"I'm going to continue calling pills that give people a bad time piperazines"

you did not say anything about a similar experience to piperazine. you said "a bad time".

liar.

alasdair

 

[the toad]

I dropped this days ago.

But

My understanding of dropping something differs from yours in several ways that i can see.

Id be more than happy to move forward, i will not give you a free pass and let you have the last word or negotiate conditions and keep typing lengthy explanations that dont seem to get read...

If you have any questions on how to adapt your presentation to avoid infractions and arguments i will gladly oblige (pm or post, your choice)

Im on your side if youd realize it

 

[Folley]

you complete and utter liar.

Right. Because a pill that gives someone a bad experience and makes them throw up is completely different from a piperazine. My bad.


Keep it up buddy, you're just digging a hole to China.

Im on your side if youd realize it

That's why I'm not saying anything to you now.. I know what you are trying to do, but you've been doing it in a completely wrong way. Alasdair on the other hand just wants to make me look bad and discredit all information posted by me, which is why he follows me all around this forum and reads through all my posts.

It's also why he made a completely unprovoked attack on me in this thread, which is why I am even here now.

 

[Salandrion]

I don't believe Salandrion has ever sent an email to us asking how to volunteer. If you've got a good idea for something DanceSafe could do, and you have energy to help with it, send us an email at dsusa@ dancesafe (dot) org

I haven't sent an email and I will do that. I think honestly the biggest hindrance to dance safe is that they don't spend enough time educating people on the state of ecstasy adulteration. Your E pamphlets that you hand out have a wide variety of useful information about consuming MDMA, but really really fail at letting people know that its likely that the pill/capsule they have in their hands while reading it aren't MDMA. I'll email dancesafe headquarters with this suggestion. This is step one.