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4-aco-dmt turned to black mush, non-fumurate

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sageman13

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
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2
So swim or whatever had around 40mg of 4-aco-dmt in a plastic baggie in a cold metal case in drawer, after a few months it turned into black goo! from brownish dust and normal potency to sticky black goo. What I want to know is, is it still safe to take and does potency remain? has this happened to anyone else? i read that it happens for 4-dipt or something and potency remains but this is a different drug so i want to make sure. Also, its damn hard rationing out the amount since its sticky goo now.



Thanks,


Sage
 
Please don't use SWIM here, we don't allow it as it doesn't protect you at all, and just makes your posts hard to read.

4-AcO-DMT should break down into 4-HO-DMT, meaning your black goo is likely to be mostly Psilocin rather than 4-AcO-DMT now, potency should be similar to before. This happens over time if storage conditions aren't adequate, try keeping chemicals in the fridge or freezer in future, and in airtight containers. :)

I can't really say for *certain* about the safety of consuming the black goo, though I seem to remember it should all be rather safe products of degradation - don't consume any until you know for sure though.
 
Jesusgreen said:
4-AcO-DMT should break down into 4-HO-DMT, meaning your black goo is likely to be mostly Psilocin
Click to expand...

That is an in-vivo mechanism involving acetyltransferase.
It has not yet been established what this black goo is, shulgin theorised it was 4c oxidation but acetyl group is not prone to spontaneous oxidation.

OP: people have consumed the black goo on several occasions and said there is said to be no potency loss, i wouldn't encourage you to do so though.
 
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I would most certainly toss the black goo in the trash if it were me, and order some fresh 4-aco
 
For the purposes of disseminating information & without intending to encourage risky usage, I have had some brown, degraded mush that was once 4-ho-met. I do not know what the degraded compound became but it DID still have some action. It appeared to have reduced in strength & continued to reduce in strength, as far as I could tell, over a few weeks, without refrigeration. Eventually it took 30mg to achieve the same results as 10mg would have brought, before degradation.

The degradation was caused by slight damp due to inadeqautely dried storage & lack of refrigeration (compound was forgotten about & left in a jacket pocket).
 
Sounds like it was hydroscopic and absorbed too much moisture. I had the same happen to a small about of 4-AcO-MiPT I forgot about in some folded wax paper. Like Phyllip Thyamine said it's probably still active if it hasn't been too long but it's going to be impossible to measure a dose and you don't know how much is still active. Buy small vials for your stuff and refrigerate. A cheaper more versatile option is to keep your stuff in zip locks but put them in a glass preservative jar (like for jam) with a desiccant from a shoe box and an oxygen absorber from a beef jerky bag. I think moisture and oxygen do a lot more of the degrading than temperature (at normal indoor ranges) for most compounds.
 
Agreed, but as temperature may have had a role to play, it's fair to mention it. It was very warm at the time, indoors.

Luckilly I knew the exact amount in the container, added a regulated amount of vodka to the contents & was able to extrapolate dosage thus.
 
nidhogg said:
That is an in-vivo mechanism involving acetyltransferase.
It has not yet been established what this black goo is, shulgin theorised it was 4c oxidation but acetyl group is not prone to spontaneous oxidation.

OP: people have consumed the black goo on several occasions and said there is said to be no potency loss, i wouldn't encourage you to do so though.
Click to expand...

I'm basing that on: this article about 4-AcO tryptamine degradation and also on the lab results a friend received after sending off samples of his 4-AcO-DMT twice, once after purchase, and once several months later in bad storage conditions - the first time there was 4-HO-DMT present, but only a very small amount, the second time around half the sample was 4-HO-DMT iirc, along with other unidentified substances.

I wouldn't advise you to consume it, since we don't know what other products of breakdown could be, or if any of them could be dangerous - there could also be mold and bacteria in the sample, which you don't want to be consuming. That said though, I stand by my original post that I'm pretty sure most of your sample will be Psilocin.
 
It's likely safe to consume, except that you have no idea how much of the original drug is there, and how much has turned into black goo. I say it's safe because at most there's 40mg of it, and it's hard to imagine what 4-AcO-DMT could possibly turn into that's so nasty that you'd need to worry about eating 40mg of it.

4-sub-tryptamines will start turning to brown/black goo very rapidly if exposed to moisture and air. Like, if you were to weigh out a dose into a vial, then rinse the vial out with water and drink it, by the time the trip is over, if you look at the bits of liquid left in the vial - it's turned brown. Yet the same drug will stay good as new for years stored properly.

Since you had a trivial amount of it stored like that, you should bin it, get some fresh material, and take care to store it in an air-tight container, away from moisture.

Do not trust a baggie as airtight. It's a ziplock bag manufactured for fractions of a fraction of a cent in china, shipped halfway across the world and handled roughly by everyone in between, mashed around in your pocket after you pick it up from your dealer all the way home, and you're trusting it to be airtight and keep your expensive drugs safe?
 
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Jesusgreen said:
I'm basing that on: this article about 4-AcO tryptamine degradation and also on the lab results a friend received after sending off samples of his 4-AcO-DMT twice, once after purchase, and once several months later in bad storage conditions - the first time there was 4-HO-DMT present, but only a very small amount, the second time around half the sample was 4-HO-DMT iirc, along with other unidentified substances.
Click to expand...

Thats interesting, they failed to mention whether the tested substance was diluted in water or stored in a bag, the article was about a diluted tryptamine. I dont see a spontaneous breakdown happening, a hydrolysis from humid air might be on the other hand.
The large 86 mass spike makes sense since it just happens to be the mass of two acetyl groups, said product is probably 3-ketobutanal or similar.

The other unidentified substituted tryptamines might aswell be byproducts from synthesis. Its impossible to tell since they had nothing to compare to.

Nevertheless none of this explains why they turn pitch black. I had a very small sample(1mg) of 4homet in 1-1½cl tapwater and it turned black in two or three days
 
I have had this problem too. I would concur with those who say that the substance absorbs moisture too easily because when I pop the stuff into the freezer, it turns into a much more easily managed powder again. But when in the goo form, it is very difficult to weigh out. Very frustrating.

What would be the difference in effects between degraded and non-degraded Psilacetin anyway? I suppose it would depend on the ratios present, but can anyone report particular differences?
 
There might be a slight difference in absorption which could have a marginal effect on pharmacokinetics. The comeup and comedown might be more or less smooth for example, like a time-release feature if the goo is not as readily taken up. The difference is more likely negligible though, in this regard.

Then there would be quantitative differences depending on how much is oxidized. From the sounds of it, despite the horrible appearance of the drug this degradation hardly has to coincide with the er... flubberization.

Difficulties with weighing a dose sounds like the biggest issue with this. To try a cure I would probably seal the product in a small container together with dessiccant then do a freeze-thaw cycle I think.
 
There was a guy on the shroomery who had a bottle of water mixed with 4-aco-dmt. The cops seized it and tested it. Initially, it came up containing nothing illegal. So the cops waited for months and months, then tested it again. Positive for 4-ho-dmt.

People have dried the black goo back to some normal looking degraded 4-aco-dmt. I agree that it's hydrolysis involving moisture taken from the air. Further, I'd say that since 4-ho-dmt breaks down rapidly, it's probably also a product of 4-ho-dmt breakdown. However, there is still a lot we don't know about the degradation products of 4-aco-dmt, and I can't say that I'd advise anyone to eat "black goo".
 
sageman13 said:
So swim or whatever had around 40mg of 4-aco-dmt in a plastic baggie in a cold metal case in drawer, after a few months it turned into black goo! from brownish dust and normal potency to sticky black goo. What I want to know is, is it still safe to take and does potency remain? has this happened to anyone else? i read that it happens for 4-dipt or something and potency remains but this is a different drug so i want to make sure. Also, its damn hard rationing out the amount since its sticky goo now.



Thanks,


Sage
Click to expand...
Same thing happened to my aco. It was a beige power and slowly turned into brown goo. It was stored in a jar in the freezer for probably almost a year. I always wondered about its activity, as I held onto it for novelties sake.
 
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