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how come scientists claim

D

drug100

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
62
that psychedelics won't ever kill you? in the uk there has been 0 reported deaths. what is it that psychedelics has that doesn't harm the body? of course psychedelics should be avoided if you already have a mental illness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY4J9Q1xPsM
 
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This is not true, there are many psychedelics that can cause death, mostly those of phenethylamine and amphetamine classes.
 
Well, it is true that LSD is fairly benign and it is very hard to dangerously overdose, as can be said for mushrooms. But that doesn't mean that all psychedelics are that safe.
 
The risks with psychedelics probably come mostly from combining them.

LSD and MDMA on their own are both pretty safe drugs.

However someone I know lost a good friend who died after combining the two (multiple organ failure is all we know about the cause of death).
 
If you believe you're invincible and walk in front of an oncoming vehicle, then yes, psychedelics can sort of kill you.
 
JSPete: WHAT!? I was under the impression that LSD and MDMA in combination was relatively safe. Multiple organ failure? This is pretty fucking scary information to me. Do you have any information about similar cases involving these drugs? Thanks a bunch in advance!
 
lulzkiller said:
JSPete: WHAT!? I was under the impression that LSD and MDMA in combination was relatively safe. Multiple organ failure? This is pretty fucking scary information to me. Do you have any information about similar cases involving these drugs? Thanks a bunch in advance!
Click to expand...

I would consider the combination safe if I didn't know about this. It's the only case I've heard about a candyflipping fatality, although if you check google I'm sure there's something. Sadly it was very real and I know the details to be true. I believe it happened whilst at a club - A group of 3 or 4 girls, about 18 years old. They all did it. Only her friend died. It might have been a freak occurrence, it might have been serotonin syndrome, it might have been dehydration, who knows. All that's really certain is that she died as a result of combining MDMA with LSD...One of the other girls began the same university course as me a couple of weeks later, and that's how I met her and found out about it.
 
JSPete said:
I would consider the combination safe if I didn't know about this. It's the only case I've heard about a candyflipping fatality, although if you check google I'm sure there's something. Sadly it was very real and I know the details to be true. I believe it happened whilst at a club - A group of 3 or 4 girls, about 18 years old. They all did it. Only her friend died. It might have been a freak occurrence, it might have been serotonin syndrome, it might have been dehydration, who knows. All that's really certain is that she died as a result of the drugs...A couple of weeks later, one of the girls began the same university course as me, and this is how I know her and know about what happened.
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in your opinion JSpete do you consider drugs dangerous and not worth doing it in moderation? i know this has nothing to do with the topic but pm system is complicated because i have to wait every 180 mins.
 
Without going off topic too much, that's a pretty loaded question. The types of danger and the severity of danger depends on the drug in question, how its used, how much of it is used, for how long it's used for and so on. I think it's a fact that all drugs are dangerous if they're used dangerously. If they're used responsibly by someone who knows the dangers and makes an effort to minimise and avoid the dangers, then they're often no worse for us than anything else we experience in our day to day lives. The biggest problem we face with drugs is having the discipline to actually use them in moderation and not throw caution to the wind.
 
If we don't categorize drugs by chemical but by action and consider pure psychedelic action to be mostly coming from 5-HT2A agonism then the answer to the original question is probably that while these receptors control many psychological functions like mood, sensory information in the broadest sense and quite a bit more... they are not directly involved with vital bodily functions. Yes you can die from some psychedelics but I don't think the cause of death will ever be the psychedelic action, rather the stimulant or rather generally sympathomimetic side-effects. Probably not CNS depression, I don't think there are psychedelics that have heavy CNS depression as a (potential) side-effect.

So I don't think it's right to classify by chemical because as selective as even the NBOMe's are for example... apparently in overdose they can still cause enough collateral damage to be considered potentially lethal. We don't know how easy it is to die from them exactly, I also don't think I've heard an explanation yet for the mechanism of action that would make a life-threatening situation with NBOMe's but adrenaline action is a possibility.

Maybe I am overlooking something but I think with maxed out 5-HT2A it would be hard to die from. There is a ceiling effect isn't there? Seizures may be possible though, not sure how dangerous massive seizures can be from general excess of 'electric' activity. AFAIK epileptic episodes aren't life-threatening unless you get status epilepticus. But I never heard people dying from that, but rather from things like vasoconstriction of DOX etc.
 
Most chemicals are dangerous when doses are high enough. People have even died from water poisoning. I'm having difficulty believing though, that combining reasonable doses of LSD with MDMA is physically dangerous for a healthy person. To draw any conclusions you'd need to know:

- if it was actually LSD and MDMA
- what doses she took
- if she took anything else (alcohol, medicine, ketamine, ghb, etc)
- her health status at the time
- the supposed mechanism of action leading to death
- her activities while tripping (dancing like a maniac for hours?)

It's a tragic case, but there are way too many things that could have caused her death to simply ascribe it to the combination of these two relatively safe chemicals.
 
Donvliet, I have the Space Tribe hoodie with that mushroom logo on it ! I fuckin' love Space tribe stuff !
 
About the candyflip death, I think the LSD enhances the effects of MDMA but that MDMA is the drug that would be the reason for the death insofar that without the MDMA she almost certainly would not have died unless the cause of death was entirely unrelated (which is also very unlikely)... but without the LSD she surely could have died from an MDMA overdose alone. It's not unheard of. If you are particularly unable to process a high dose well it can kill you, I would suspect an underlying morbidity but after the fact that is hard to isolate as a cause I guess, unless you could prove a congenital condition.

Still, far, FAR more people die from drinking and smoking and amphetamines and opiates I think. I'm sorry to hear about her passing away that is very sad. But I am quite unconvinced that the combination is actually unsafe.
You have a chance of 1 in let's say 400000 (EXAMPLE) of dying from taking a certain dose of MDMA but adding LSD enhances the effects making the chance maybe 1 in 300000 or 1 in 350000. I am completely making up these numbers, my point is: even if we have an anecdote of a death that we are talking about the chances remain slim altogether based on the evidence we have. Candyflipping probably increases your chances of landing in a hospital or morgue but I wouldn't say we should all stop trying it because it suddenly gives you a chance of 1 in 500. Not until I see statistics that indicate something like that.

I have candyflipped, and the intensity of the experiences does make me say this is something to only do very very rarely. The reason for me to say this is to keep it special, the psychological impact, and the same reason why I think MDMA should be used infrequently only that reason amplified a bit.

The enhanced activity would be the #1 explanation for increasing chances of fatality, what else could it be considering LSD is physically safe, especially on the vital organs. Had she died of a total CNS blowout then I would start to suspect dangerous hyperactivity caused by LSD. For example a huge dose of LSD plus a MAOI that doesn't seem like a good idea at all and I would recommend against it entirely, but I do wonder about the actual mechanisms for physical harm in such a case.
 
Drug100, I think the thread title should be changed to make it more clear what the thread is about. Just a heads up before I go do that.
 
Whether or not one person in the history of the planet has died after mixing LSD and MDMA doesn't mean that mixing LSD and MDMA is dangerous. People die all the time. Many people drop dead when they were doing nothing. Many people die in their sleep - does that mean we should avoid ever going to sleep?
 
LSD, psilocin, and to some extent mescaline are all considered safe simply because many, many people have taken them and none have died. There is one reported mescaline fatality in an elderly American Indian who had a heart attack while intoxicated, but this could simply have been a result of age. Current theory is, they are 5-ht2a partial agonists (or functionally selective in some way), so there is an effect ceiling which prevents serious side-effects.

Regarding candyflips: while combining any drugs is dangerous, if I had to choose a combination, I'd rather see people combining LSD and MDMA than almost anything else. Certainly safer than speedballs.
 
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