why are quality psychedelics so hard to find?

[rocknroll702]

why is it that finding good psychedelics is so hard and that more than not people are passing off fake stuff as being theM?

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

Its just all about who you know and what kind of scene you roll in.

Friends of friends is the way to go about it though.

 

[villian]

capitalism.

good psychs are around you just have to find them

 

[Roger&Me]

why are quality psychedelics so hard to find?

Lack of education in the natural sciences. For example, if you had a decent chemistry education, you would be able to make LSD (etc..) yourself. Synthesizing LSD is to chemistry as writing a research paper is to history class; ie, not hard, just requiring some effort. High school students could be taught that level of chemistry without much problem.

The problem is human laziness more than anything. People like to do drugs, but they're not interested in them enough to actually learn how to make them.

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ Or perhaps fear of the consequences that would ensue from Schedule I substance manufacture?

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

Synthesizing LSD is to chemistry as writing a research paper is to history class; ie, not hard, just requiring some effort. High school students could be taught that level of chemistry without much problem.

I don't know man. I have taken more than your average number of chemistry classes and I don't know how well I would manage trying to synth LSD. I mean maybe if it was legal to do and I could just practice over and over and over again with a university chemistry lab.

 

[freedstar]

What about precursors?

 

[Roger&Me]

^ Or perhaps fear of the consequences that would ensue from Schedule I substance manufacture?

That is definitely a great point.

Excellent, excellent point about the effects of prohibition laws... but still, I think if most people were trained in chemistry to the same level as they're trained in reading and writing, the simple laws of probability would win out and it would be easier to find quality drugs. I think education is the most important factor, followed in a close second by legal reform.

 

[rocknroll702]

ya thats total bullshit a simple highschool chemistry education will help you make lsd -- i think uve eaten a bit to much man or your on it now

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ You vastly underestimate Roger&Me's wisdom. O_O

I'd absolutely love to understand chemistry well enough to be able to synthesize psychedelic compounds. Unscheduled research chemicals, at least. I would also like to study the pharmacology of psychedelic compounds, in order to intelligently design new psychedelics with useful properties, in the same way that Methoxetamine was a rationally designed dissociative. Ahh, maybe someday...

 

[Roger&Me]

I don't know man. I have taken more than your average number of chemistry classes and I don't know how well I would manage trying to synth LSD. I mean maybe if it was legal to do and I could just practice over and over and over again with a university chemistry lab.

Ok, not trying to be a dick about this.. but its as simple as turning an acid into an acid chloride and then into an amide. I could teach a monkey how to do that in less than 72 hours. Again, I'm not trying to be a dick, but the process can be carried out by most people of average intelligence, given proper training. Its just a matter of teaching it to people in a way that they can understand, which most teachers can't do.

ya thats total bullshit a simple highschool chemistry education will help you make lsd -- i think uve eaten a bit to much man or your on it now

Oh jesus man...

I never said a high school chemistry education could help you make LSD, I said that high school kids are capable of learning the level of chemistry necessary to produce LSD. If a college sophomore can learn it (and they do, I teach sophomore-level organic chemistry lab), a high school student can learn it too. I maintain that if students were taught chemistry in high school to the level that they are taught other subjects, there would be a lot more talented chemists in this world and thus a lot more good drugs.

And just FYI, I haven't taken psychedelics in over two years.

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

That is definitely a great point.

Excellent, excellent point about the effects of prohibition laws... but still, I think if most people were trained in chemistry to the same level as they're trained in reading and writing, the simple laws of probability would win out and it would be easier to find quality drugs. I think education is the most important factor, followed in a close second by legal reform.

There is no shortage of drugs really. If you think about it, the amount of LSD in the USA alone must be astronomical. The question is really why is it so hard to come by and that I think is solely their illegality. I guess that's pretty obvious though...lol

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

Ok, not trying to be a dick about this.. but its as simple as turning an acid into an acid chloride and then into an amide. I could teach a monkey how to do that in less than 72 hours. Again, I'm not trying to be a dick, but the process can be carried out by most people given proper training. Its just a matter of teaching it to people in a way that they can understand, which most teachers can't do.

I guess the motivation behind synthesizing some random aromatic phenol vs. LSD is very different but I worked pretty hard at organic chemistry lab and my products were of varying purities. If my LSD was an impure as my lab results, well I wouldn't be taking LSD anymore. But yes, with proper instruction every single day, I guess this is pretty true. Ultimately, it's like cooking a recipe or meth like in Breaking Bad.

 

[Roger&Me]

Ultimately, it's like cooking a recipe or meth like in Breaking Bad.

No, its absolutely not like that at all. A "recipe" is about following a procedure because you have faith that it will work, science is about using rationality to accomplish a goal. Its a totally different process. If you know how carbon compounds behave, you can make anything, its a matter of looking at the functional groups present in the starting molecule and determining what you can convert them to. Again, I hate to come off as a dick, but making a new chemical compound is totally not like "a recipe". That's exactly what science isn't.

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

It is performing a procedure though. I think your argument that anyone could synth LSD is valid but that anyone can be a chemist is not true. I couldn't be a chemist because I just didn't have the visuospatial ability to comprehend it all. But I think I could probably be taught to make some killer LSD with enough instruction, access to equipment and time.

 

[Roger&Me]

I dunno, I guess I just have too much faith in people or I overestimate their ability. But I really do think that most people could perform rudimentary organic synthesis given a cursory level of instruction, its just a matter of mastering the language of chemistry -- which is no more difficult than any other language. (Hell, if three-year-olds in France can learn to speak fluent French, people can be taught how to do anything! )

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

that might be true. no one was trying to teach me proper chemistry early on without other competing academic subjects and activities. human brains are quite adept at adaptation. are you a chemist by profession?

 

[Roger&Me]

are you a chemist by profession?

Well yes, and of course that probably makes my opinion biased by definition. But, for instance, my dad is a lawyer and despite the fact that I'm not a lawyer by profession, he still expects me to have a rudimentary understanding of how American criminal law works. What I am specifically lamenting is that the modern educational system spends proportionately much more time and effort teaching non-science subjects, with the assumption that science is somehow a "highly specialized discipline" rather than just a good way to understand how the world works. We are comprised of carbon compounds, it just seems to me that organic chemistry should be taught to kids in a cursory manner like english and history is. I might not have done a good job earlier in the thread of articulating my opinion.

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

you are not alone in that sentiment, believe me

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

makes me think about Star Trek or this show Eureka on Sci-Fi. you know, kids learning calculus and things like this. i don't know if this is possible though realistically. humans have such intricate societal demands that are relayed through public education for the masses.