4 tabs in the desert: bad idea?

[Flickering]

Late in March, I'm planning on taking two trips. The first will be a strong dose of iboga root. If it does not kill me, I hope the experience will relieve me of depression. And if that's so I would like to know what it's like to trip without being in a semi-suicidal state of mind, so my next plan was to take four tabs of LSD, find a friend to trip with me, drive out four hours into the desert, and have a trip there starting around 3p.m.

There are far more experienced psychonauts than I on this forum. To them I ask: does this sound like a bad idea?

Some background information to explain why I'm asking:

- The tabs are decent strength. I will probably be ingesting about 400ug of acid.
- I have only had four LSD trips before, none of them above 150ug.
- I have had two bad trips before. One was on DXM, and the mistake was doubling my dose to 600mg. The other was on magic mushrooms. I only ate two grams. I had the worst night of my life.
- Since then I have had about ten trips, none of which have been remarkably strong, all on mescaline or LSD. However, I feel I'm up to it, and I want a spiritual journey in a truly magnificent environment.
- I have tripped in this desert before, on a regrettably small dose of cactus.

Ego death under the night sky sounds wonderful to me. But perhaps I'm reaching for the stars too fast. 4 tabs is a lot for someone who doesn't have any tolerance. What's your take - does this sound like a bad idea, or should I dive into the deep end?

Edit: I suppose this is a borderline "what dose should I take?" question. I guess I'm more specifically asking if this particular dose is something I shouldn't do.

 

[TangerinO]

I too am by no means a psychedelic warrior in comparison to others on this forum also.
However from my recent experiements of LSD I can safely say 150ug is generally when things begin a little realer than real and sometimes unexpectedly intense, at least for me. The difference between 150ug and say 250ug is also very noticable.
What I'm getting at is 400ug is quite a heavy dose, and if you have not experienced LSD beyond 150ug dosages as you said unless I read wrong (I might have) and you speak of "semi-suicidal" state of mind while tripping, then why the need to dose so high?
Why not push it maybe to 200 or 250 and see how that goes? Especially since you'll be in the desert which is far from a comfortable environment unless you're used to it.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Things you should do:
-Be mindful of the weather, and prepare accordingly.
-Bring plenty of food and water
-Don't wander out of sight of some main path or road to avoid getting lost (hell, make it somewhere you can't get lost even if you wander)
-Have a way to contact someone in case of emergency (not that you'll be able to use it if something happens while tripping hard)
-Things to do/have fun.
-Something to abort trip with

On the other hand, this is a dose significantly higher than you've dealt with before, my recommendation would be to try it in a safe environment (like a home) and then only leave it if you're feeling up to it and go around the area. This might work out well, or you might end up stranded in the desert while having a horrible experience. It is always our recommendation to know how you handle a drug, and a given dose of a drug, through MULTIPLE experiences, before you go out on any grand adventures like this.

How much would your friend be taking, is he more experienced than you? If the answer is equal and less, then I'd say absolutely do not do it. One of you ideally should be reasonably certain you will be able to handle the other if necessary. I take it you'd be spending the night there, so you better have your camp all set up before you come up.


Edit: I'm with tangerino, 400 is much more than necessary for this purpose, I'd stay at a ++ to low +++ for this sort of thing. Any higher and the mental effects/headpsace will be so dominant you might not be able to really enjoy the desert.

 

[Flickering]

What you both say makes sense, I shouldn't be trying huge adventures like this without proper experience. Still I wanted a strong experience in a desert environment in particular. I suppose it wouldn't be such a bad thing to spread those 4 tabs over 3 trips though - I do have other, less extreme plans. Still, this is something I'd like to do someday, perhaps later this year.

Fortunately, in these sand dunes, there's little chance of getting lost. There's ocean on one side and eventually forest on the other, so even if I tripped so hard I had no idea which way was up, I'd be able to orient myself as I came down. Not sure who the friend would be yet, or how much of what he / she would want to take - would be good for it to be less than mine, in case we ran across a snake or other desert trekkers. As for preparations, I always make sure to pack the essentials.

Another idea occurs to me: the same thing, but with peyote. A strong trip on mescaline isn't as dangerous as one on LSD, and it's bound to be earthier anyway. The problem is that last time I went out there with Peruvian Torch, after the long drive, I only ended up having a mild, +/++ trip, and that was really disappointing. Perhaps if the mescaline doesn't kick in as strongly as I like, I could take 2.5 tabs. My last trip, a few weeks ago, was on mescaline + LSD, and I liked the combo - the mescaline actually took a lot of the edge off the trip and boosted my confidence massively. Will have to dwell on this... thank you both for your advice...

 

[TangerinO]

I can see the appeal in wanting to do this experience though. I imagine a huge dose of acid on the desert would be just be a one on one with the void so to speak. Might get around to doing this myself one day.

 

[folding_space]

I agree with TangerinO. A 150 mic experience and a 400 mic one are RADICALLY different. If you have never gone above 150 before, I recommend you try 250 or at most 300 in a safe location. Trust me, you will not be disappointed that you did not take 400 right off the bat. This rabbit hole is very, very deep.

 

[webbykevin]

You say you are going to take 4 tabs , then you go on to say..

- The tabs are decent strength. I will probably be ingesting about 400ug of acid.

That's only 100ugs per tab, that's not decent strength that's puppy shit, A decent tab should be 250 to 350, In the 1960's you weren't even considered to be in the game unless you took at least 500ugs

Hoffmans first trial dose was 2500.

 

[Jesusgreen]

You say you are going to take 4 tabs , then you go on to say..



That's only 100ugs per tab, that's not decent strength that's puppy shit, A decent tab should be 250 to 350, In the 1960's you weren't even considered to be in the game unless you took at least 500ugs

Hoffmans first trial dose was 2500.

This is simply not true. A good number, probably the majority, of tabs on the street are around the 50 microgram range. This is typically the dose range where people will want to take 2 or 3 to get where they want to be. 150+ mics starts to get into the higher dose range where things can get quite intense.

Hofmann's first dose was accidental and the dosage is not known. His first intentional trip was with a 250 microgram dose.

Please don't spread untrue information like this. Particularly when it concerns to dosage and people following your advice would end up far deeper than they anticipated.

 

[Ismene]

I'd trip on a dose you felt comfortable with - perhaps add another 100mics if you're feeling adventurous but LSD when it's too strong for you simply isn't fun either physically or mentally.

 

[SabbathViper]

You say you are going to take 4 tabs , then you go on to say..

That's only 100ugs per tab, that's not decent strength that's puppy shit, A decent tab should be 250 to 350, In the 1960's you weren't even considered to be in the game unless you took at least 500ugs

Hoffmans first trial dose was 2500.

Nice post on a harm reduction site, bud. You're a real gem.

 

[webbykevin]

OK keep your knickers on, At least allow me to defend myself somewhat, I first experienced lsd in the Netherlands when I was in my early 20's that was 25+ years ago now, I was handed a microdot and was told it was freshly made, only a couple of days old and was a 350, now I had no idea what 350 meant back then but i took it and it was the best and most eye and heart opening experience I had in my life up to that pioint, I took acid a heap more times in the 1990's and every time it was always doses of around 250 to 350, that in my opinion is a full effective dose.

Cut to present day Australia, after more than a decade of no psychedelic use because I was working my ass off raising a family and being responsible I decided it would be interesting to return to LSD to have a retrospective look at the first half of my life, So I ask a few trusted friends and manage to get hold of some blotter, and it was shit, really weak, I thought I had been duped or had just been unlucky but NOOOO apparently when I asked everyone in the acid party scene they all said "oh wow man, those are like so strong, they are at least 80ug's don't take more than 2" ???? "WTF is happening with young people today I thought" I have tried over the last 3 years about 10 different forms of blotter in Australia, each time everyone who had taken it was saying it was the fucking dope man, really strong, pure blah blah blah...

And every time I have been totally disappointed with the strength and have needed to take at least 5 tabs to get anywhere close to the experience I remember from 25 years ago.

So I like I said i dunno what's going on these days, maybe the scene in Holland in the early 1990's was just a unique thing but when I read books by Leary, McKenna, Ram Dass and many other icons from the 60's they all seem to be talking about doses over 250ug with the standard seeming to be somewhere around 300.

Ram Dass said that at the experimental house in Berkley in the 60's they took LSD for 5 days without coming down, dosing 400ugs every 4 hours.

So fuck you big mouths who are so quick to criticize and jump all over someones opinions, who think you know it all and just blather on about harm reduction, when you don't even know about the history or the pharmacology of the subject.

I stick by my original comment, 100ug tabs are NOT decent strength LSD.

maybe there are some old time Blue Lighters who remember the real days of LSD taking who could talk about the doses they remember taking.

 

[Busty St Clare]

It comes back to set and setting. If you are uncomfortable in your surrounds the negative effects will be amplified. If you have camped in the desert before, have the skills to set up a safe and comfortable base camp then there shouldn't be too many problems. Nothing better than the great outdoors when tripping, add a fire and a whole universe of stars then you have pretty much nirvana for me. There is no shame in starting at 2 tabs then dosing another 3-4 hours later. The best thing is the isolation, you won't have to contend with "normals" who can often be the source of anxiety and paranoia.

Of course tripping adds a fuck load more risk, make sure you are warm, dry and hydrated before you drop, and make sure you have enough wits about you that you don't do anything stupid. Scope your surrounds and even have a marker for your camp that is visible from a far so that you can find your way back. Have your fire already made, wear appropriate clothing as well as sunscreen and set up plenty of shelter from the sun. Personally I prefer to trip during the day, even more so when I am camping. Things become a whole lot more difficult as soon as the sun sets, especially at the peak. I make sure everything I need is laid out in my tent without having to search for them in the dark. Warm cloths laid out on my bed, torches attached to my belt, plenty of water and ice cold beers in my chillybin. If you are in Australia forget about a phone signal, you have to assume that there is no one able to rescue you. If you are happy with this and self sufficient enough to survive sober then enjoy yourself.

 

[acidclouds]

webbykevin your posts in this thread combine dick-sizing about how much acid you need/can handle and nostalgia for the 'good old days' when drugs were so much better etc etc and blatantly incorrect information (hofmann's first dose) so you cant blame people for finding them annoying.

Personally I think the quality of acid in Australia is incredibly good, especially when you compare it to the quality of our pills, coke etc. I am yet to buy a tab that was not LSD and they are usually of a strength where 1 tab is good and 2 is often too much. It could be soo much worse

 

[webbykevin]

Hofmanns original lab notes.......


In order to get to the root of the matter, I decided to conduct some experiments on myself with the substance in question. I started with the lowest dose that might be expected to have any effect, i.e., 0.25 mg LSD. The notes in my laboratory journal read as follows:

April 19, 1943: Preparation of an 0.5% aqueous solution of d-lysergic acid diethylamide tartrate.
4:20 P.M.: 0.5 cc (0.25 mg LSD) ingested orally. The solution is tasteless.
4:50 P.M.: no trace of any effect.
5:00 P.M.: slight dizziness, unrest, difficulty in concentration, visual disturbances, marked desire to laugh...

This was the first planned experiment with LSD and a rather dramatic one. Subsequent experiments on volunteer colleagues of the Sandoz research laboratories confirmed the extraordinary activity of LSD on the human psyche. These showed that the effective oral dose of LSD in human beings is 0.03 mg to 0.05 mg.



.............................

 

[TheAppleCore]

All I can say is, whatever you do, don't get fucking lost.

And make sure you can stay cool, and hydrated.

*shudders* That was a baaaad ayahuasca trip. 8(



400 mcg was the most LSD I've ever taken. While it was a pretty epic trip, I think I concluded at the end that it was slightly more than what was really necessary or practical. It seems like, for me, after about 300 mcg the actual interesting and therapeutic effects pretty much hit a ceiling, and higher dosages just give it a little less stability and more of an edgy weirdness.

 

[2c-goinsane]

imo i wouldnt take 400ug any where far from my house if you havent tried that dose in a safer setting yet, it can get very dissociating at high doses and unpredictable. You maybe could start with one tab and a half and move up slowly, I know the later tabs will just pro long the experience but thats better than coming up on a bunch and it being instantly overwhelming out in the desert which would suck for me id be wishing for a house or the woods if I got to tripping to hard in the desert lol

Take it easy everyone

 

[acidclouds]

Of course your expert knowledge of chemistry, psychology and pharmacology make these original and professional lab based findings irrelevant and nonsense, sheeeeeesh.

I think you are doing the maths incorrectly. There are 1,000 micrograms in a milligram. 0.25mg is therefore 0.25 x 1000 = 250.

 

[webbykevin]

From HANDBOOK
FOR
THE THERAPEUTIC USE OF
LYSERGIC ACID DIETHYLAMIDE-25
INDIVIDUAL AND GROUP PROCEDURES
1959 D.B. BLEWETT, Ph.D. N. CHWELOS, M.D.

Chapter 11. DOSAGE


Dosages, in our experience, range between 100 and 1000 micrograms and possibly larger doses may be used in the future. Doses of 1500 micrograms have been used by Hubbard (24) without unfortunate side effects.

The drug is usually administered by giving an initial dose which is believed to be adequate and, where necessary, increments of 200-300 gamma are used at intervals of one and a half to two and a half hours, depending on the reaction.

The initial dose may be as small as 100 micrograms in people whose problem is not too severe or whose frame of reference appears to be flexible. In the majority of cases who came for treatment, however, initial doses of 300 to 600 micrograms seem indicated. The larger doses (more than 300 micrograms) are used mainly in individuals who have previously had LSD treatment but have shown insufficient response.

In cases in which there is evidence of liver damage a large dose is indicated since such states are less responsive. There is no evidence of harmful effect from the use of large doses of LSD in cases of impaired liver function. This may not be true in the case of mescalin. No work appears to have been reported in which mescalin has been used with such cases.

 

[fridgebuzz]

Hofmanns original lab notes.......

April 19, 1943: Preparation of an 0.5% aqueous solution of d-lysergic acid diethylamide tartrate.
4:20 P.M.: 0.5 cc (0.25 mg LSD) ingested orally. The solution is tasteless.

Not following. You said 2500ug was his first dose, but this says it was 250ug.

Anyway OP, you're in the southern hemisphere and can see the Milky Way. I'm jealous.

 

[webbykevin]

So in conclusion, like i said my first few experiences were at 350ugs and not knowing any different i assumed that was the kind of dose everyone was talking about when they said they took acid, I guess if I had never had it before and then my first dose was 100ugs then i would have assumed that was the normal experience it induced.

But it is a personal and subjective thing, affected by many things such as diet, tolerance and potency loss in the storage medium.

I'm sure the acid Hofmann tried a few minutes after he made it in the lab was potentially a lot stronger and purer than a sheet of blotter weeks old that has been carried around in someones pocket wrapped in tin foil and taken out and handled and exposed to light frequently.

Going back to the OP, Sorry If i played a role in dragging this thread off topic and to the people that attacked me I wanna say, Peace, I should have made it clearer perhaps that I was only discussing my own experiences of it and do not say that I am correct or incorrect, I just shared my own story, I wasn't dick sizing I just told the truth about my own encounter with this amazing substance.

And I was a bit grumpy this morning so please understand and forgive me if I caused any offense.