rocknroll702
Bluelighter
lol thats a good way of putting it nephtys
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PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe |
Long term LSD abuse
- Thread starter Folley
- Start date
Rorthron
Bluelighter
Brilliant. That's absolutely it. Your post made my day. Thanks!
Efoj
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2011
- Messages
- 169
I totally agree with you, but let's not forget there are limitations to people's own adventures such as: friends and relatives, lack of money (if you stand outside society, how will you get money to trip that much?), etc.
Psychedelics, like meditation, show us the absurdity of mainstream society. We may choose to become misanthropes after that. That's the choice of Buddah and so many others, that's a result of "brain damage" according to some shrinks too.
But then, so many other people have used LSD (and meditation) as a means to becoming better sons, better husbands/wives, better friends and employees.
Anyway, I digress...
plusfourpirate
Bluelighter
tbh, the answer to your question is going to vary from person to person. if you have a family history of mental illness, or are genetically predisposed to mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, anxiety disorders, or other mood disorders, the long term effects can vary from acting as a catalyst for a psychotic break to just bringing out some of the signs and symptoms of set illness. more times than not. these things seem to begin to emerge as a result of an unpleasant or bad trip.
a good friend of mine(J) who i grew up tripping with had a little too much one night amd freaked out bad. he had to be hospitalized, and now, 15 years later, has been in and out of hospitals diagnosed w schizoaffective disorder. J's mother had a severe case of paranoid schizophrenia, as well as his older sister. who's really to say it would not have occured anyway even w/o acid use tho. i think the acid just accelerated the process.
on the other hand, i ate just as much, if not, more than J, as did and still do many of my friends..and while J quit using it at age 19 when he finally came apart at the seams, i continued to take L and still do to this day. i have no significant long term efftects to speak of..other than the fact that i see slight movement of things and still get light tracers, sometimes more noticeable than others. my short term memory has def taken a beating over time as well, but honestly i think that is more from my frequent marijuana and mdma use as a teen moreso than L. my parents were big acid eaters growing up in the height of the era, and they show no signs from long term use.
i honestly think that another major factor that plays a role in the severity of long term symptoms is whether or not your experiences were positive or negative as a whole.
i think if youve been blessed enough to have had very little experiences associated w trauma, that the long term effects are minimal. i have noticed that out of all of my friends i used to and still trip all the time with, the ones who always seemed to have more bad or uncomfortable trips seem to be the ones who complain of chronic anxiety issues, and they often attribute these issues to all the L we used to eat. the ones who i always had a good time with that never really had any isssues, are all happy normal ppl who've grown up, become productive ppl with good jobs and their own families, and really have no significant problems or issues to speak of outside the norm of everyday life. as mentioned by someone else above, they do sll ehibit what some masy refer to as eccentricity, but i see it more as individualism and free thinking, which both i consider to be positives. they certainly havent turned into boring old ppl,lol.
after having said all that, its till hard to tell what caused what. the only thing thats clear to me on this topic are that mental illness and outcome of experieces are the two main contributing factors of long term after effects. again, whos to say that it doesnt all simply go back to genetics in the end. kinda a hard topic to give a solid answer to. the fact that lsd users are more than likely to have experimented with others drugs as well is another variable that makes this a tricky question to answer.
anyway, hope that gives you some answers to your question, or at least some noteworthy points to explore further. :D
a good friend of mine(J) who i grew up tripping with had a little too much one night amd freaked out bad. he had to be hospitalized, and now, 15 years later, has been in and out of hospitals diagnosed w schizoaffective disorder. J's mother had a severe case of paranoid schizophrenia, as well as his older sister. who's really to say it would not have occured anyway even w/o acid use tho. i think the acid just accelerated the process.
on the other hand, i ate just as much, if not, more than J, as did and still do many of my friends..and while J quit using it at age 19 when he finally came apart at the seams, i continued to take L and still do to this day. i have no significant long term efftects to speak of..other than the fact that i see slight movement of things and still get light tracers, sometimes more noticeable than others. my short term memory has def taken a beating over time as well, but honestly i think that is more from my frequent marijuana and mdma use as a teen moreso than L. my parents were big acid eaters growing up in the height of the era, and they show no signs from long term use.
i honestly think that another major factor that plays a role in the severity of long term symptoms is whether or not your experiences were positive or negative as a whole.
i think if youve been blessed enough to have had very little experiences associated w trauma, that the long term effects are minimal. i have noticed that out of all of my friends i used to and still trip all the time with, the ones who always seemed to have more bad or uncomfortable trips seem to be the ones who complain of chronic anxiety issues, and they often attribute these issues to all the L we used to eat. the ones who i always had a good time with that never really had any isssues, are all happy normal ppl who've grown up, become productive ppl with good jobs and their own families, and really have no significant problems or issues to speak of outside the norm of everyday life. as mentioned by someone else above, they do sll ehibit what some masy refer to as eccentricity, but i see it more as individualism and free thinking, which both i consider to be positives. they certainly havent turned into boring old ppl,lol.
after having said all that, its till hard to tell what caused what. the only thing thats clear to me on this topic are that mental illness and outcome of experieces are the two main contributing factors of long term after effects. again, whos to say that it doesnt all simply go back to genetics in the end. kinda a hard topic to give a solid answer to. the fact that lsd users are more than likely to have experimented with others drugs as well is another variable that makes this a tricky question to answer.
anyway, hope that gives you some answers to your question, or at least some noteworthy points to explore further. :D
Last edited:
Folley
Bluelighter
Came back and read this all over (mostly) sober, and there are a lot of good points.
It seems like the main problem with tripping too often, is that people get too used too the world of tripping. It seems to change the way people think, and that can be a bad thing, if it doesnt go away... there are much worse things though I suppose...
So I'm really not going to be fucking up my serotonin, or re-wiring my brain, or permanantly altering the way my eyes process sight, or anything like that? The only problem is making sure I dont go crazy?
Thanks for the answers, this should help me quite a bit. I will be taking longer breaks now, but Im glad that Im not going to fuck myself over without knowing it like I did with MDMA
It seems like the main problem with tripping too often, is that people get too used too the world of tripping. It seems to change the way people think, and that can be a bad thing, if it doesnt go away... there are much worse things though I suppose...
So I'm really not going to be fucking up my serotonin, or re-wiring my brain, or permanantly altering the way my eyes process sight, or anything like that? The only problem is making sure I dont go crazy?
Thanks for the answers, this should help me quite a bit. I will be taking longer breaks now, but Im glad that Im not going to fuck myself over without knowing it like I did with MDMA
Fossil_Diver
Bluelighter
LSD is only "very safe" in the sense that it is very difficult, if not impossible under normal circumstances, to consume a lethal dose. I have never heard of anyone that has died as the direct result of an overdose. People have died doing stupid things while under the influence but have never as the direct result of a lethal overdose. LSD can cause psychotic breaks. That is not a myth and the percentage of people that experience a psychotic break is high enough to make it a considerable risk factor. I have witnessed it several times and it's not funny. I know one person, a cousin of mine, that has never been quite the same after having a psychotic episode. He is able to function and appear normal to most people. But knowing him before and after I can honestly say he is spaced out most of the time and frequently seems to be in his own world. LSD has its risks and it is wrong to call it safe. It is safer than alcohol. But if people consumed LSD at the rate they consume alcohol I would probably change my opinion of that too. On the other hand I have taken it hundreds of times and have never had a psychotic episode. I have had some difficult trips but I never went bat shit crazy and out of my head on even large doses. I believe some people are predisposed for whatever reason, like underlying mental conditions etc, and are at a greater risk of having bad reactions. The problem is that many people aren't aware that they may have a mental condition that predisposes them to psychoses from LSD use until it's too late. Just my honest opinion.
SONN
Bluelighter
LSD is safe in the sense that even if you consume 10000x the threshold dose you can come out of it unscathed if you have the willpower and no allergy or other complication like you're on other drugs or you have a heart disease or something.
BritishLad
Bluelighter
I remember seeing a long term MDMA user on here a while ago saying he didn't think MDMA use could cause any damage. And admitting he was wrong, I've heard pure MDMA often (say once a month) over a peroid of years can cause brain damage. And effect the natural serotonin levels, though I'd be interested to know if this is true or not. There does seem to be conflicting views on this matter.
Have you seen this paper on erowid? It seems to be what you are looking for, it's from the 60s, but it has some interesting conclusions.
Chronic Users of LSD: The "Acidheads"
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_journal3.shtml
Chronic Users of LSD: The "Acidheads"
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_journal3.shtml
Nah, it's bollocks. The latest article shows all the alleged MDMA "research" was politically motivated bullshit. Professor Dave Nutt recently said something like "As I always expected, proper research into MDMA is showing that it doesn't cause brain damage".
Folley
Bluelighter
Right, because chronic serotonin depletion and the use of a drug that metabolizes into a neurotoxin wont cause brain damage at all
Chronic serotonin depletion? You mean like the latest anti-depressant drugs that work by depleting serotonin in your brain? Yep, you heard right. The latest anti-depressant drugs work by DECREASING the serotonin in your brain. Chronically depleted serotonin - excellent treatment for depression. Blows everything you've heard about serotonin and depression out the window doesn't it. They're called SSREs.
use of a drug that metabolizes into a neurotoxin wont cause brain damage at all
Whoah, back up a minute. Now when has MDMA ever been shown to cause brain damage in a human being taking an oral dose? I'm aware that if you inject catastrophic quantities of MDMA directly into a mouse's brain every 3 hours for 4 days straight and then you cut open it's brain you may see signs of "neurotoxicity" but what does that prove exactly?
If you inject enormous quantities of water directly into a mouse brain you will see brain damage the likes of which MDMA wouldn't cause in a billion years. Does that mean every time you drink a glass of water you're causing brain damage?
Don't just accept things at face value - a lot of the research has been politically motivated to shape your thinking a certain way.
Okami
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2011
- Messages
- 496
Lack of proof is not disproof. Research may indeed been politically motivated, but just because it was doesn't mean that mdma is necessarily safe, it could very well be neurotoxic. Also just because current knowledge makes us assume that something is safe doesn't mean it is. In the 1920s new born babies randomly died, after autopsy it was found that these babies had extremely large thymus glands and doctors assumed it was this that could be ossificating the children and so they started irradiating babie's thymuses left right and centre to shrink them. Little did they know that irradiation would increase the probability of cancer and that the babies' thymuses weren't actually enlarged at all. All the medical textbooks that had be written up until then, were written by doctors that mostly dissected poor people. Grave robbing was a huge problem in the 18th century and many governments introduced laws allowing the dissection of homeless people that had died, or people that lived in work houses. These people due to their poverty were extremely constantly under a lot of stress. The hormonal effects of stress shrunk the thymus glands to be much smaller than they would be naturally. This caused the expected size of a thymus gland to be much smaller than it was naturally, in for example new born babies, that had not been exposed to any stress.
The doctors did nothing wrong based on their knowledge of human anatomy, but their knowledge was incorrect. LSD, MDMA and other drugs might look safe going by our current knowledge, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are.
ProducedRaw
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2006
- Messages
- 79
dezz
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1,662
Hm interesting subject, damage or no damage, MDMA never harmed me, I can't say the same for psychedelics however. I used to trip a little frequently and I did notice a huge change in the way I think. To this day I still feel very different from before I started experimenting with psychedelics.
I saw it as a good thing at first but I started to become kind of "out there". Eventually I had a bad trip and the next day I got HPPD, and DR/DP which took me to a very dark place mentally. I was depressed, didn't know what the fuck was going on, constantly questioned life and existence.
Basically my entire world view was flipped upside down. You might consider it "enlightenment" but I take drugs for my own pleasure. A substance which has the power to dramatically change your thinking worries me alot. It isn't a natural thing to put in your body and I'd rather feel grounded then spacey. It's been a year since that bad trip, to this day I still have pretty bad HPPD, and I've learned my lesson lol.
No more frequent tripping for me... I'd much rather treat it as a special occasion, just see what's in your mind from time to time. Once a month at MOST..
I saw it as a good thing at first but I started to become kind of "out there". Eventually I had a bad trip and the next day I got HPPD, and DR/DP which took me to a very dark place mentally. I was depressed, didn't know what the fuck was going on, constantly questioned life and existence.
Basically my entire world view was flipped upside down. You might consider it "enlightenment" but I take drugs for my own pleasure. A substance which has the power to dramatically change your thinking worries me alot. It isn't a natural thing to put in your body and I'd rather feel grounded then spacey. It's been a year since that bad trip, to this day I still have pretty bad HPPD, and I've learned my lesson lol.
No more frequent tripping for me... I'd much rather treat it as a special occasion, just see what's in your mind from time to time. Once a month at MOST..
But it's been quite a while since LSD and MDMA have been in widespread use. You'd think that by now the hospitals would be filling up with brain damaged people who took MDMA 30 years ago. The fact that as far as we know there isn't a single human being on the face of the earth who is receiving treatment for brain damage from LSD or MDMA suggests that they're pretty safe.
After all, you can find people displaying symptoms of severe brain damage from alcohol in every hospital in the country.
Nah, that was 10 years ago. The latest and biggest research project ever done says ecstasy doesn't cause brain damage:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/feb/19/ecstasy-harm-brain-new-study
lars90
Bluelighter
I have no Idea about this sinse IO have never used LSD but I think I have an Idea what kind of changes could apear.
One of my friends told me about his experinences. He is 17 now and he only did it for 1 year but still a lot of damgae was done I dont known what term of time but he is still feloing some side effekts. He says he has 2 types of personalitys 1 is very agresiv while the other is very back holding and very quiet he says he get depresins some times. Hmm I hope that helped I really cant help any further ...
One of my friends told me about his experinences. He is 17 now and he only did it for 1 year but still a lot of damgae was done I dont known what term of time but he is still feloing some side effekts. He says he has 2 types of personalitys 1 is very agresiv while the other is very back holding and very quiet he says he get depresins some times. Hmm I hope that helped I really cant help any further ...
Okami
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2011
- Messages
- 496
Who's to say that any brain damage is going unreported? What if it causes diseases that already exist but we don't know the causes of, of the top of my head something like multiple sclerosis? Or maybe it merely makes you more prone to them, but at the end of the day you can never be 100% sure especially when our knowledge of biological systems is so incomplete and many common occurrences such as the placebo effect still baffle us.