Physical dependence on cannabis

[Hoes call me santa]

I just find being high more enjoyable than being sober for most of the time, Brian424. Keep in mind a tolerance builds up too.

But I smoke between 1,5 and 3,5 grams a day, not an ounce or two haha.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

I've seen mention of chemical imbalances of the brain when describing clinical depression. I'd just like to say I find it interesting that these chemical imbalances are in fact a complete fantasy sold to us by the drug companies.

Mind you that is not to say there is no biological basis for depression, but I'm not so sure it's as simplistic as big pharma would have us believe.

 

[ms4104]

I think an o lasting 3 months is pretty damn long. I go through about a g a day.. 3 little .3 blunts. But yeah I could see it lastin 3 months actually now tha tI am thinkin about it.. like if you only smoke after work and take a few hits. I just get in the habit of smoking a half blutn per session if not blunt.

 

[Stan the man]

Its not physically addictive. It can be psychologically addictive as can anything else. I think people's psychological addiction to it leads them to believe they are physically addicted. I know tons of people (including me) who do/did it on a daily basis (and a lot of it at that) and then had to abruptly stop for whatever reason. Obviously aggravation and irritation are common side effects because lets face it, who doesn't get pissed when they cant get high? But other than that there are not physical side effects. Kind of like a hypochondriac, you might think something is wrong and therefore your brain makes you think its real but in actuality, its not.

 

[i against i]

why is it even worth bothering to argue about? bunch of non-scientists arguing about something scientific to what end?

 

[Jibult]

why is it even worth bothering to argue about? bunch of non-scientists arguing about something scientific to what end?

Even though this'll contradict what I'm about to say, what relevance does your comment have? Contribute positively or stay quiet while you stand up tall on your pedestal over there.

Its not physically addictive [...] Obviously aggravation and irritation are common side effects because lets face it, who doesn't get pissed when they cant get high? But other than that there are not physical side effects. Kind of like a hypochondriac, you might think something is wrong and therefore your brain makes you think its real but in actuality, its not.

Do you understand the differences between psychological and physical dependence and addiction?



To put it as bluntly as I can, the physical chemicals (read: drugs) in marijuana over the long-term will physically alter the body's chemistry. The fact that the alterations are temporary and dependent on consistent ingestion of drugs are what make the physical effects, such as loss of appetite, excessive sweating, and, in cases of long-term habitual abuse, mild-to-moderate and temporary insomnia experienced upon quitting considered physical.

Whether the cause of these (and possibly others that I haven't mentioned and personally haven't experienced) is psychological or physical is irrelevant-- the fact is that many habitual marijuana users experience minor physical withdrawal symptoms when they stop using cold turkey.

 

[ReeferChiefer]

Even though this'll contradict what I'm about to say, what relevance does your comment have? Contribute positively or stay quiet while you stand up tall on your pedestal over there.





Do you understand the differences between psychological and physical dependence and addiction?



To put it as bluntly as I can, the physical chemicals (read: drugs) in marijuana over the long-term will physically alter the body's chemistry. The fact that the alterations are temporary and dependent on consistent ingestion of drugs are what make the physical effects, such as loss of appetite, excessive sweating, and, in cases of long-term habitual abuse, mild-to-moderate and temporary insomnia experienced upon quitting considered physical.

Whether the cause of these (and possibly others that I haven't mentioned and personally haven't experienced) is psychological or physical is irrelevant-- the fact is that many habitual marijuana users experience minor physical withdrawal symptoms when they stop using cold turkey.

Loss of appetite is not physical. There are hunger receptors in our brain that trigger that hungry feeling. Sure, the feeling itself is physical, but the process in which we feel it is mental. This is generally caused by over-stimulation of those receptors by the CB1 receptors released in THC/Cannabis. Just like meth addicts and their inability to produce serotonin/dopamine without meth.

 

[michael_1992]

its possible for there to be some withdrawl. though its nothing id ever call a physical dependence. its not an opioid where your body can literally die through withdrawl. your cannabinoid receptors WILL downregulate (decrease in number and/or sensitivity) , causing your brain to be less sensitive to the endocannabinoids within your body. this will cause you to have less cannabinoid activity than the average person upon abrupt cessation of use. The symptoms will be very mild though. and you will likely only get irritable, depressed, and a lack of appetite (cannabinoids are what your body uses to produce appetite). you may get some mild increase in pain, im not sure though. but if there is any, it is going to be much much much more mild than any opioid withdrawl. probably closer to caffeine in terms of physical dependence intensity.

oh and by the way. the downregulation of receptors is temporary, the receptors will eventually come back.

 

[FnX]

Loss of appetite is not physical. There are hunger receptors in our brain that trigger that hungry feeling. Sure, the feeling itself is physical, but the process in which we feel it is mental. This is generally caused by over-stimulation of those receptors by the CB1 receptors released in THC/Cannabis. Just like meth addicts and their inability to produce serotonin/dopamine without meth.

So what you're saying is that changes in my brain receptors (CB1) aren't physical at all? I think we're starting to get a bit absurd here already. Repeat after me please: mind equals body... mind equals body... We are not talking about breaking a habit here like gambling, cannabis is a goddamn drug that alters your mental functions via physical mechanisms. You disrupt these physical mechanisms, you disrupt your mind.

I haven't been even smoking much lately, but I've been doing it every evening for the past month or so now, perhaps a bit longer. I have merely lowered my daily consumption of cannabis and already I'm feeling like shit. I don't take other drugs right now nor do I have underlying diseases. I still smoked so much last night that I don't exactly remember how many bags I vaporized, all I remember is that it was less than usual and I was worried wether I'd be able to sleep. I was high and I slept. Next morning I wake up to the very familiar feeling of having my THC levels go from high to very low, I only slept for a few hours but I had to get up at 6am because I felt too shit to remain in bed. My whole body was aching a little, not pain, but an uncomfortable ache. My nose was running and stuffed at the same time. I've been feeling cold for the whole day now, occasionally sweating like crazy (had to take a shower and change clothes). It's evening now, been feeling shit for the whole day pretty much. No appetite whatsoever either.

Sure I could work in this state, after all I did get a couple of hours sleep last night and mind you I'm still smoking every day, but these are effects from simply consuming LESS cannabis than I had been for the past month or so. Just like you'd feel withdrawal effects from any other drug if you were addicted and suddenly halved your daily dose. If I've been smoking daily for a week or so, I have to taper my cannabis use so the cessation won't be such a bitch. I mean for real, I can use methylphenidate every day for a week and have next to no problems just not taking it afterwards, but if I smoke weed every day for a week, a miniature hell breaks loose. The thing is, I feel there is a ceiling to this effect. I don't think it's possible to experience super severe withdrawals by using more like one would with say, opiates.

Not. In. My. Head. Only.

 

[LoverDearest]

This is generally caused by over-stimulation of those receptors by the CB1 receptors released in THC/Cannabis. Just like meth addicts and their inability to produce serotonin/dopamine without meth.

How is the over-stimulation of receptors non-physical? Because a receptor is obviously a physical entity.

And more than half my friends here in British Columbia are very addicted to marijuana. In the rare case they don't have weed most can't eat, their sleep is disturbed, and mood swings plague their interactions. Those are all physical symptoms.. I find it strange how certain people are having trouble understanding that.

The facts are simple, those things that in practice are not physically addictive (Food, Snorting baby powder, eating cat food) can be phsycologically addictive. When something causes pleasure, whether it comforts, soothes anxiety, or is just plain enjoyable, it is activating pleasure chemicals/reward chemicals in your brain, like dopamine and seratonin to name two common ones. This in itself can become physically addicting, as people begin to develop cravings and addiction to the thing that causes a positive reward outcome within their brains. Thus even something that is not physically addictive in itself, can cause indirect physical addiction, and therefore withdrawal. Especially the stress releasing, anxiety soothing plant that is marijuana.

 

[ReeferChiefer]

First I gotta ask. Do you/have you done any drugs other than weed? I've been an every day smoker for 2 years and I've never had any sort of ache, runny nose, or anything else you described. And I don't know anyone else that has.

Loss of appetite would be a physical symptom if it were impossible to eat. Or if you when you ate something you puked it up. I admit, when if I don't smoke I usually don't get hungry (unless I haven't eaten anything all day). But I can force myself to eat a meal no problem. Our body wants it, but it doesn't need it.

I also don't see how you can class mood swings/irritability as a physical symptom. Those are controlled by our emotions, which is non-physical.

 

[LoverDearest]

First I gotta ask. Do you/have you done any drugs other than weed? I've been an every day smoker for 2 years and I've never had any sort of ache, runny nose, or anything else you described. And I don't know anyone else that has.

Loss of appetite would be a physical symptom if it were impossible to eat. Or if you when you ate something you puked it up. I admit, when if I don't smoke I usually don't get hungry (unless I haven't eaten anything all day). But I can force myself to eat a meal no problem. Our body wants it, but it doesn't need it.

I also don't see how you can class mood swings/irritability as a physical symptom. Those are controlled by our emotions, which is non-physical.

I don't smoke much marijuana, although for someone in British Columbia that just means I smoke up at least every other day. Haha

Science has consistently proven that the body and the "mind" (Emotions) are actually the exact same thing. Like I said, anything that relieves anxiety/stress, or causes pleasure is triggering the reward section of your brain, even if it's you that is doing that, and not the direct effects of the chemical. This can lead to physical dependance over many years, causing physical withdrawal.

About other drug use, the friend's I previously specified do not do much else other than drink occassionally and do MDMA occassionally.

 

[GBM]

After the long amount of time I have been smoking weed everyday, IME, physical withdrawals for weed are very real.

Call me a fool, but if a pounding headache, nausea, body aches and pains, restless legs, loss of appetite, aren't physiological withdrawal symptoms, then I must be ignorant to the definition of physical withdrawals.

Drugs act differently for everyone, only a few of my IRL friends say they have experienced physical withdrawals.

That's just my $0.02

 

[K-Dazed]

I've smoked daily for around 2 years now. I got through roughly 1-3.5 grams a day, normally a O every 3 weeks or so (I try to stretch it a month). I mix it with tobacco (use roughly 1 cigarette a day). I don't smoke weed in the morning, and I notice very physical effects: while at school/work, I sweat profusely. At first I thought I simply sweat more than the average person, but once I realized I didn't sweat once I smoked, I tied it to my smoking. Now, after testing this assumption I'm sold it's due to the marijuana/tobacco. I also experience loss of appetite: I can't eat anything for breakfast, unless I smoke (which I don't do before school/work, so that's not a solution). Again I didn't think much of it, but once my friend started experiencing similar I tied it to marijuana. To describe it, food tastes dry and disgusting, hard to swallow when I haven't smoked. By the time lunch rolls around, I'm starving enough to eat something, but I can't eat nearly as much as I used to unless I smoke, and can't finish meals unless I smoke.

I only get moods swings when I'm prevented from smoking when I planned on smoking, but that's not physical and like a poster above said, it probably happens to everyone. I don't get depressed if I haven't smoked though, only irritable.

The sweating and loss of appetite are very real and physical for me. Obviously it's not the end of the world - if I sweat, I sweat, and I can wear attire which covers it up. The loss of appetite manifests into stomach aches, which is only an annoyance, and obviously not comparable to serious withdrawals, but I think it's ignorant to say you can't get physical side effects from stopping marijuana use.

 

[yteek]

^With a large number of others(including myself) experiencing physical withdraws like the ones such as above, I find it rather ignorant many insisting that physical withdrawals are not a reality for many is quite ignorant.

 

[ms4104]

Cold sweats are very real from quitting marijuana if you use for a logn time and heavy use. Synthetic herbal blend shit..forget it..cannabis x20.

 

[loveyourevil]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PHYSICAL WD FROM CANNABIS. ITS ALL MENTAL. I have found that with alot of drugs, you just gatta learn how to play a better mental game than "said drug."

 

[ReeferChiefer]

After the long amount of time I have been smoking weed everyday, IME, physical withdrawals for weed are very real.

Call me a fool, but if a pounding headache, nausea, body aches and pains, restless legs, loss of appetite, aren't physiological withdrawal symptoms, then I must be ignorant to the definition of physical withdrawals.

Drugs act differently for everyone, only a few of my IRL friends say they have experienced physical withdrawals.

That's just my $0.02

So then is it really fair to say that weed is physically addicting if only a few people experience that level of withdrawl? I imagine their body chemistry would have more to do with it.

 

[RobotRipping]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PHYSICAL WD FROM CANNABIS. ITS ALL MENTAL.

cold sweats, loss of appetite, insomnia.

^i think there's a lot more than a few who get these effects. How many people claiming there are no w/d effects actually smoke constantly? If you smoke once a week then you will probably never experience these effects but for daily smokers i think it is quite common.

 

[FnX]

I can understand that you will experience psychological effects from discontinuation- I have experienced this myself, but it is a fucking universe away from physical dependence. Discontinuation syndrome, maybe, but to be honest I experienced more discomfort from the abrupt discontinuation of say, internet access, sex, video games, etc than I ever did from cannabis. This is not to make light of your situation, or to claim that what you feel isn't real, it's just an attempt to put it into perspective. Go through co-morbid opioid, benzo, and alcohol withdrawals in an isolation unit, and I don't think you'll continue to use the word "physical dependance" as lightly

Well I definately would say it's easier to break any habit for me than to deal with the withdrawal effects of cannabis. It's easier for me to stop smoking cigarettes/using snuff/other nicotine products after months(!) of daily use than what I'm dealing with weed right now, and I'm not even at the cessation part yet, only lowered the amount I consume daily. If both of us swear by personal experience, to me it would seem that it means there's great difference between individuals. As a matter of fact, long time ago when I was still new to the drug world and I was doing research on cannabis, I believe I read from a few sources that a small percentage of heavy users, among 10%, develop clear physical withdrawal symptoms. The anecdotal evidence is definately there if you read various forums online, it's not some weird anti-weed crusade a bunch of people suddenly decided to go on. I am inclined to believe the number is bigger than 10% though, but I don't know. I have smoked/vaporized kilos in my life, I'd argue my body/brain would be an inferior body/brain if it didn't adapt to the constant heavy bombing of cannabinoids over the perioid of a few years.

Maybe I'm just extra sensitive to the effects of cannabis and therefore to the after/withdrawal effects too? I don't know, but to me it is clear that majority of the people can't even grasp what me and some others in this thread are talking about, they totally haven't experienced it in any way.

And seriously there's a whole lot more in it for me than just simple cold sweats, insomnia and loss of appetite, I've listed a bunch of other stuff already and I suppose if you read my previous post you can kinda read between the lines how my mood was that day. I'd say constant diarrhea is a pretty physical symptom, even though one could argue that I'm just causing it by stressing or something, but it has been proved that cannabinoids have significant effect on the GI-tract and some people use cannabis for IBS.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219529/ - Cannabinoid CB2 receptors in the gastrointestinal tract: a regulatory system in states of inflammation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1728337/ - Cannabinoids and the gastrointestinal tract

Just to get you started. We don't know much yet about the exact effects of THC and other cannabinoids down there, but I can tell you my digestive system gets fucked up every time I smoke heavily (when the cannabinoid levels in my body fluctuate a lot, like in the morning after smoking a lot just before going to bed). My diarrhea would normally cease after ~week of last toke, but since I take one heavy dose each night it has led me to experience diarrhea every day for a few weeks already. Makes me think this tapering of mine is pretty shitty, literallly.

IF there is a minority of people who have the luxury of experiencing more severe side-effects from cannabis use, don't you think it would be crucial to inform people/potentian new users about it, purely in the spirit of HR? Just like you wouldn't say a drug is 100% safe and there's no need to worry if there was a 1 in 100.000 risk to a lethal reaction in an otherwise totally safe drug. Just like you warn people to test wether they are allergic to DXM or not before they take a full dose. Just like you warn people that some drugs can be extremely addictive to certain personality types.

Cannabis can and does cause problems for some people, but atleast among drug users it's not talked about generally. We silently cast aside the more rare cases where someone with perhaps unknown psychotic tendencies gets a full-blown psychotic episode after smoking a joint. General attitude seems among smokers seems to be along the lines "it wasn't the cannabis, it was the persons fault". Think about it though, if you deny the existance of what me and others have been talking about in this thread, you also deny any professional help for us, how can you treat something which supposedly doesn't even exist? We aren't trying to prove cannabis evil here or anything, we aren't taking anything away from you, it won't make cannabis any more dangerous/safe to you than it already is if even if you acknowledge that there is a possibility for this kind of reaction as well.

One thing I would like to emphazise: I'm not having any real mental cravings for using cannabig right now but I feel sick both physically and mentally. I know that smoking would probably help this, but I don't want to get high. I'd still love to get rid of what I'm feeling. This aspect reminds me a lot of my benzo w/d where I would have no desire to use the drug despite being at the risk of death in the most hellish state of my life (too rapid taper). The only thing that keeps me still toking daily right now is because I want to sleep, I light it up and go immediately to bed, not even staying awake to enjoy the high. This seriously does not sound anything like a gambling addiction for example.

There's a lot more I could talk about this issue, but it just feels like majority of the people don't want to hear it or believe it, maybe the time isn't ripe yet?