Are you born gay?

[enigmaticfreak]

This priest who I talk to at times says look at places in England that are highly gay, that they are just choosing it. Why are there some places where there are more gays and some that aren't, excluding San Fran, b/c obviously they just all moved there.

 

[L2R]

genetic make-up is overemphasised. the reality is that even your appearance is just as subject to your genes as it is to other factors, such as diet and the environment. much of this is indeed out of our control so it's essentially the same as the gene argument when it comes down to causes.

but the entire question is invalid, since choice or no choice makes absolutely no difference to the legitimacy of homosexuality. being gay is legit. end of story.

 

[MikeOekiM]

well what i think is that everything thats happens through out your life is already planned out before you are even born so yes people that are gay are born gay imo

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

genetic make-up is overemphasised. the reality is that even your appearance is just as subject to your genes as it is to other factors, such as diet and the environment. much of this is indeed out of our control so it's essentially the same as the gene argument when it comes down to causes.

but the entire question is invalid, since choice or no choice makes absolutely no difference to the legitimacy of homosexuality. being gay is legit. end of story.

This.

 

[modern buddha]

This.

Seconded.

 

[enigmaticfreak]

I guess my brain isn't soaking up exactly what you're saying by saying the genes don't matter and your gay. Sorry I'm just having a hard time understanding.

 

[Damien]

He's saying that it's not your genes per se, rather a combination of many many factors. So many in fact that any "choice" you may have had in the matter is almost, if not entirely, negated by the other factors.

but the entire question is invalid

I don't think that's true as there are major belief systems that say that homosexuality has grave consequences.

 

[hgwells]

When I was pretty young my first crush was this guy in my middle school, and before that I had never thought girls were cute, only certain guys would give
me that "oh god I'm so nervous right now, I'm going to fall over." feeling.
I can't prove it, but I'm pretty sure I was born gay, I didn't make any decision one morning-
"Gee-golly, I think I want penis, that sounds like fun, and everybody loves gay people, I think that's what I'm going to be today, tra la la la la"

but I can't speak for everyone.

 

[modern buddha]

I've liked girls and guys over the years. Far more girls, but whatever.

There are so many factors, whether it's society, genetics, economy, internal and other external and spiritual factors that form who we are. It's way too difficult to say. How do we know that the number of people on earth currently hasn't changed the course of homosexuality? Maybe some people are gay for population control. Not to mention, more religious / government / economic groups are fine with homosexuality than ever before. Maybe this has influenced the number of people "coming out". Maybe the economic decline has influenced the number of people claiming they are homosexual in the hopes that they will be chosen over another candidate for the job?

Even if our genetics tell us that we are sexually interested in our own sex, we can always choose otherwise and still live a happy, full life. The number of factors surrounding homosexuality is insane.

 

[hgwells]

I've liked girls and guys over the years. Far more girls, but whatever.

There are so many factors, whether it's society, genetics, economy, internal and other external and spiritual factors that form who we are. It's way too difficult to say. How do we know that the number of people on earth currently hasn't changed the course of homosexuality? Maybe some people are gay for population control. Not to mention, more religious / government / economic groups are fine with homosexuality than ever before. Maybe this has influenced the number of people "coming out". Maybe the economic decline has influenced the number of people claiming they are homosexual in the hopes that they will be chosen over another candidate for the job?

Even if our genetics tell us that we are sexually interested in our own sex, we can always choose otherwise and still live a happy, full life. The number of factors surrounding homosexuality is insane.

You are probably right, or on the other hand, the factors regarding homosexuality might be extremely simple- but since it is legitimate and understood now not as a mental disorder, I myself, personally, have stopped asking why people are gay. It just lost my interest, and a persons sexuality is just a part of them- unless you are the type who defines their entire existence on the pride of being gay (which gets on my nerves), but heterosexuals have their own way of doing that too.
I would like to see a straight pride festival, if it were tongue in cheek, I think it would be awesome XD

 

[L2R]

I don't think that's true as there are major belief systems that say that homosexuality has grave consequences.

there are also major belief systems that say all sorts of things which may not be true, you know, like alcohol or sugar in high and regular amounts aren't harmful. the laws may not be adequate to address such falsities on the basis of "democratic freedoms", but that in itself doesn't legitimise those beliefs. the very fact that a lot of people think something, does not make it true.

what we are talking about here is a vestigial belief handed down from times where ethnicities were competing for resources as such that more people in your own nation today meant a bigger chance of you eating tomorrow. these ideas were questionable then, they are completely silly today. they might have made more sense back in cave dwelling days.

tbh, it's a real shame that certain belief systems, who do carry many very useful, productive and spiritually sound ideas for the modern world undermines its own ability to get the good messages through by its inability to drop the crap it has picked up over thousands of years. infallibility is a consequence of pride, remember that, my good friend.

 

[hgwells]

Sometimes I wonder why people WANT to know why others are gay. I know most of it is simple curiosity, but when people try and find a cause of something, are they looking into ways to change it? If you believe, maybe in the back of your mind, that homosexuality is a "condition" or maybe even a mental disorder, then the first thing to do to correct it would be to find what ever is causing it.

I'm sure most fathers and mothers would rather their children be as straight as they are, even if they are understanding and have no real problem with homosexuality- so they wonder "what causes it?"- then "what cures it?"

It's just an idea I entertained, not one I take too seriously. There have been MANY attempts to "cure" gayness, from medication to electro shock therapy, from torture to praying-
the success rate for any of these methods are minimal to zero. plus its just bad science/ methodology anyways.

 

[addictivepersona]

Interesting thread. :)

I've only skimmed the responses at the moment, but I just wanted to chime in that as much as I think we are born with the "gay gene" (for lack of a better term), nurture is a huge part of it. I mean, say a girl is born with the "gay gene" and is raised to be proper and a "lady". When she gets older, she will probably be with a man, but she may not feel happy/fulfilled for whatever reason, and just blame it on that guy or the situation. She might never pick up on the fact that she is gay because she wasn't raised that way.

But on the other hand, if you have someone like me, who was a girl at birth, but was raised pretty much indifferent from her brother, there might be some gender confusion as the years go by. I mean, I knew I was a girl, but I didn't quite know what the difference was between girls and boys, nor did I know that little girls were supposed to like little boys and vice versa.

I think being gay is tied to genetics, but I also think it's highly susceptible to nurture.

 

[modern buddha]

Alrighty, now that we've got a pretty good look at this subject from HL's perspective, I'm gonna move this over where it probably belongs: in P&S. Hope we're giving you some pretty good, in depth responses to your question!

 

[qwe]

i think that most of our personality builds during the course of our life. genetics provides the tools for the growth, but its interaction with the outside world is just as important as what is written in the genes.

genetics vs environment is a false dichotomy. at certain periods, we are more susceptible to "imprinting" an experience into our personality. i think this is how our personality constructs over time, with the most crucial imprints happening at the earliest ages.

 

[hgwells]

your priest should check out this article regarding why there are more gay people in some areas.

like others, i think it depends on a huge number of factors and the answer wont be the same for everyone.

i sympathise with cynthia nixon, i could have made a similar blunder to her though in my case it would be 'heterosexuality is a choice.' i've discussed this with a lot of gay men, or more specifically how they discovered they were gay, and for them it really was a discovery. my old housemate cracked me up, realised he was gay after catching himself wondering if there would be any other gay men at a party.

gender doesn't really factor into my assessment of someones sexual attractiveness, i'm one of these sexuality is a social construct bores, though don't know enough about the ideas to really bore anyone with them. i also find it odd that people talk about it so much. obviously there are important discussions to be had to ensure people are treated equally/respectfully, but beyond that i'm just not bothered about what other people do in their private lives.

here's some on topic listening.

that part about your friend made me laugh, that's pretty funny.

Gays and straights and all the stuff in between, or around, or whatever- I guess it never bothers me to think about it, not because I am gay, but
because no matter one's sexual preference, everyone has more in common than they have in differences. It's not like these people are from mars- it's just made a big deal by busy-bodies and crusaders- just people who don't understand that it's ok NOT to understand sometimes.

 

[Damien]

there are also major belief systems that say all sorts of things which may not be true, you know, like alcohol or sugar in high and regular amounts aren't harmful. the laws may not be adequate to address such falsities on the basis of "democratic freedoms", but that in itself doesn't legitimise those beliefs. the very fact that a lot of people think something, does not make it true.

I think you're (probably correctly) assumed my position and read my statement to mean that the belief is valid. I had not gone that far though and said that I think it is a valid question. Please correct me if my assumptions about your possible assumptions are creating an ass.

Sometimes I wonder why people WANT to know why others are gay. I know most of it is simple curiosity, but when people try and find a cause of something, are they looking into ways to change it? If you believe, maybe in the back of your mind, that homosexuality is a "condition" or maybe even a mental disorder, then the first thing to do to correct it would be to find what ever is causing it.

I know why I'm interested but I am interested in the same thing now that you've brought it up. Maybe people are looking to broaden their horizons? hahaha jk.

 

[hgwells]

I think you're (probably correctly) assumed my position and read my statement to mean that the belief is valid. I had not gone that far though and said that I think it is a valid question. Please correct me if my assumptions about your possible assumptions are creating an ass.


I know why I'm interested but I am interested in the same thing now that you've brought it up. Maybe people are looking to broaden their horizons? hahaha jk.

lol, what do you mean?

 

[Damien]

Well, I'm interested because I am a Christian and living in America. I should have answers for people when they start asking about Christianity's views on homosexuality. The second part, I was trying to make a joke about how people might be curious about homosexuality not to cure it, rather to open up the playing field and add the other 1/2 of the population to their potential dating pool (which would be bisexuality but for the purposes of my shallow joke, I thought it would work ).

 

[medical_meccanica]

Sometimes I wonder why people WANT to know why others are gay.

Sometimes I don't understand this either, I don't even understand why people want to know if they themselves are gay. I can see why people would want to 'admit' to past experiences in order to de-stigmatise certain behaviors that are actually harmless (i.e. drugs and sodomy), but it seems quite limiting to me to declare 'I am gay' or 'I am straight.' I mean, what's the point of it?

Heterosexual people don't have a time in their life where they 'come out' as straight. Sometimes I find the two definitions pretty strange. In my opinion, a heterosexual person is someone who has only ever had heterosexual intercourse, and a gay person is someone who has only ever had homosexual intercourse, a bisexual person is someone who has previously had both. Those are just objective facts.

In terms of a gay or straight 'state of mind,' I don't think people are born with those kinds of rigid standards. It's all in the warm up. My hunch is that we all exist on a fluid spectrum that changes from moment to moment. The more times your behavior is performed from one point of this spectrum, the easier it is to choose that spot over the other ones. In other words, it's about what you're warmed up to in any given moment, and habits die hard.