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Do you think Jesus would frown on psychedelic use?

The closest I can point at objective right/wrong is through observation of harmony. Some actions are visibly conducive to what one would consider a 'good vibe'if experience one's self. Ike I say something nice to you, you respond with a sense of well-being. It seems also, that if I give you a good vibe, then you are more likely to further put off 'good vibes'. Whereas if I come up and punch you, grab your wallet and then tell out I really don't respect you as a person...lol...you are likely to have a resultatly bad day, with accomoanying 'bad vibes'.

Some actions are conducive to harmony I believe by being vibratinally ressonant with larger universal energy currents. I believe this is partially why the exp of depression and stress are conducive to sickness/immune defficiency, you are vibrating emotionally and mentally disharmoniously, and through natural wave interference this makes physical discord more likely(sickness).

I believe this observable harmony could be different for each person at each moment...I don't know for sure. Perhaps something seemingly inethicsl or wrong dne by someone was 'what the universe needed' and the action was harmonious, I can't say. I can observe the world and declare who I feel are being ass-holes though, and through the 'bad vibes' I get from them I can observe that those frequencies are not harmonious with my own....Are those frequencies inherently disharmonious w/the larger universal currents? I don't know lol....I can feel what's harmonious in my own life, but I'm not able to experience the sensory subtlties of others.

And thus i leave the case open in terms of nailing down inherent rights and wrongs. But I can see harmony and disharmony in the world, I can feel the varying 'vibes' in each situation, and I can also empirically catalog my own tendencies of responding to these arrays of situations...and from these assesments and observations I have chosen to do what i can to promote what I've learned to be the best most harmonious energy through actions and intentions....because it FEELS Right. And because I have intillectually considered the possibilities and have determined that I do want the best for each of my fellows, and I want to act within the bounds of what is harmonious. :-) and thus my quest, doing what i can to promote higher harmony

I dig your view too willow :-) and i agree the snowflake variations of each form are beautiful indeed

Lovin the vibes guys :-) thanks for all of your input. And thanks to anyone who read my fatty responses lol, I know they're intimidating when they're lengthy sometimes :-)
 
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You too cautiouuser, thanks for the input. Just cause I'm sitting on the other side of the table doesn't mean I don't respect your views. On the contrary I very much respect that you take your religion seriously, and that you were unafraid to come forth with your views. I didn't want the thread to come off as opposing Christianity, rather i intended an exploration of the potential of such practices being a part of a 'true believers' life w/o karmic rebound.

Glad we can see at least partially eye to eye :) too much eye to eye and we're just starin each other down right..? Lol ;) balance balance balance :-)
 
Never Knows Best said:
(I really don't understand how people say G-d is cruel in the Old Testament but nice in the New, it seems the opposite to me if you read the Jewish and then Christian views on things).
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Doesn't G throw Adam and eve out of eden on their ear tho? That wasn't very forgiving was it.
 
Don't think he'd mind. He's quite the fan actually, I reckon. Walking on water, catching fish with power of his mind, etc. No I'd say he's pretty open to it.
 
(I really don't understand how people say G-d is cruel in the Old Testament but nice in the New, it seems the opposite to me if you read the Jewish and then Christian views on things).
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The authors of the Old Testament saw that people started turning away from God. By "the authors" I mean a wide spectrum of people collaborating in some manner to create one big book and they continued to do so throughout centuries. They realized they need a much lighter form of God that is more forgiving for people to turn back to the Church - I mean the institution, religion was then a great tool to control the masses and they knew it, clerics/monks were capable of reading and writing as opposed to average citizens.

Yes, God in the New Testament is nicer plus adding a character of his son who is approachable and teaches in a very accessible manner.

*This is only my opinion. I'm agnostic and I treat Bible as a book.
 
Ismene said:
Doesn't G throw Adam and eve out of eden on their ear tho? That wasn't very forgiving was it.
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Aw man, I don't want to have to agree with Ismene ;)

True, G-d certainly kicked Adam and Eve out of His beautiful Eden after they ate the 2C-B and became aware of good and evil... although it was probably all the swirly rabbitsex they were having on his carefully manicured putting green that He was most angry about :) I'm sure semen stains and marathon fuck sessions are a no-no in the Holy Garden. Get a room you dirty fornicators!
 
cautioususer said:
Amazing. I already stated the "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." does not apply because it says right in front on your face for meat, or for food.... once again, not for getting high. Is it so hard to see the difference between consuming something for the need to live vs consuming something to alter your state of consciousness and get high? You can't have it both ways, you either believe in the whole statement or not at all, you don't take the parts you like and throw away the parts in a sentence you don't. Source: common sense.
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This. What i have put in bold, this is my problem with religion. No one is to tell me that I can't do anything. Who says I can't have it both ways? Why can't I have it both ways? As far as I was aware I was able to read any religious text I wanted and interpret it anyway I damn please.

The very idea of the word can't, pisses me off. It's a good way to put limitations on your potentials and your mind.
And for the record as far as taking the parts you like, and the parts you don't, you just described just about every average religious person, picking and choosing the parts of religions because it works for them. And there is nothing wrong with that, each to their own.

EDIT: I wanted to also make it clear I of course respect your beliefs as a Christian. Believe whatever you want it's your business and your choice. What I do not believe though is that anyone has the right to tell others what they can and can't do with their own body and mind. Regardless of the source.
 
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willow11 said:
I hear he also totally laid the smackdown on sodom and gommorah yo.
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Whilst turning the only chick who dared look upon it into a 'pillar of salt' ...hardcore, i know..! :-)
Does salt form naturally in pillars..? Or is that some deranged surrealist form chosen outnofnthe blue...? Lol makes me think stalgtite:-)
 
I find the only drugs that I still use to this day to be the ones that put me in a spiritual mindset (basically cannabis and occasional psychedelics). I personally think that it makes sense that a spiritual person would use drugs of this nature to gain perspective on the world, but of course there is no way to know for sure what Jesus or any famed religious figure was really like.

Willow, I like that link you quoted. Psychedelics and cannabis being outlawed is absolutely an infringement on one's right to practice religion as he or she so desires. Hopefully one day this message will stick with more people than it does currently.
 
For your consideration, the rightness of indulging may be contextual:
Romans 14:x said:
1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
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Been reading more, yeah. Romans 13:1-7 would be incredibly relevant, but there are some major debates surrounding those verses so I won't include them here (basically they say, obey the government of your country, if taken literally or as original to the document at all).
 
I agree with Never Knows Best, there really is no scripture that clearly and bluntly forbids the use of psychedelic drugs, however there are quotes of the bible that frown upon "intoxication". That being said, perhaps Jesus would only frown upon use of psychedelics purely for "intoxicating" use; that being said I don't believe that intoxication is the only thing that can be achieved by psychedelic experiences and that could perhaps be what some people would call a loophole to the older notion that drug use is a sinful practice, and that rather the act of intoxication is a sinful practice.

-Omnz (:
 
willow11 said:
to NKB: I would imagine that in monotheistic christianity, the idea of a sacred and/or divine plant/fungus/thing (eg. a plant, fungus or a 'thing'), something seen not just as a pathway to god but a god itself, would jar with the notion of one true divine spirit (ie. God); implicitly mind you- hence the idea that peoples using, say, peyote or yage were seen as interacting with the diabolical; there cannot be two gods, anything with apparent divinity that isn't Yahweh is the devil. Not neccesarily a major ideal in the modern world of modern drugs; or is it?

edit 2: I've always loved "Thou shalt not suffer a witch/sorceress to live". Vicious and misogynistic! ;)
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In many parts of the Bible the Hebrew word used for "God" is "Elohim" which means "Gods" -- it is plural., E.g., the actual translation of the 1st part of Genesis is: "In the beginning, the Gods created the heavens and the earth".
 
I highly recommend reading the Sophia Of Jesus Christ or Pistis Sophia and enjoying mescaline, Christian Mysticism is kewl.

lol


"... who ever has ears to hear the infinite,
let him hear."
- Jesus Christ
 
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I am writing to you about those who would deceive you
but the Oil you received from him remains within you
and you really need no teaching from anyone;
simply remain in him,
for his Oil teaches you about everything
and is true
and is no lie.
Remain in him
as his Oil has taught you to do.
--1 St. John 1,26
 
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