Opioids changing reaction to opiates, unsure of causes

[NotQuiteThere]

About 3 years ago, I went on a hydrocodone binge one summer. During this time, I loved the warm, fuzzy feel that opiates gave me. I felt giddy when I took them, hyper, and energetic in a way.

Fast forward to now. I've done my fair share of drugs in the meantime including dissociatives (went on quite an mxe binge for 3 months), amphetamines, but primarily alcohol. I'm somewhat ashamed to say my alcohol consumption can be 10 or more drinks many days of the week. I also began suffering from increasing anxiety about a year and a half ago. I've seen the writing on the wall and am actively seeking treatment for all this now before I go down a long lonely road...

In any case, now when I take any opiate, instead of feeling happy and giddy, I just feel like shit. My head feels wacked on and foggy. I often get a headache. I don't feel hyper or energized. And this is when they are taken without other substances in my system, like alcohol, that would make one expect such a reaction. Most of the remaining time the drug is in my system is spent asking myself why the fuck I took it, seeing as I know they have this effect on me now. Needless to say I don't use them often.

Is there any reason one's reaction to opiates can change like this over time? Just curious if I've fucked my brain chemistry up in some manner that 'happy' drugs don't make me happy anymore.

 

[Znegative]

It's probably because you're suffering some alcohol withdrawal. I remember once I had been taking a lot of xanax( which works on the same receptors as alcohol) and I also had a heroin habit at the same time. For two days I couldn't get any Xanax, so I tried to take extra heroin to counter the anxiety and get some sleep. The heroin did really nothing to help, I just felt foggy and nauseous. Benzo's can be good for opiate withdrawal but it doesn't seem to really work the other way around, I'm guessing this could be similar to what you described

 

[NotQuiteThere]

It's probably because you're suffering some alcohol withdrawal. I remember once I had been taking a lot of xanax( which works on the same receptors as alcohol) and I also had a heroin habit at the same time. For two days I couldn't get any Xanax, so I tried to take extra heroin to counter the anxiety and get some sleep. The heroin did really nothing to help, I just felt foggy and nauseous. Benzo's can be good for opiate withdrawal but it doesn't seem to really work the other way around, I'm guessing this could be similar to what you described

You're quite possibly right. I don't really feel 'awful' when I don't drink - i.e. I don't get shakes or other symptoms of severe withdrawl, but I do feel kinda shitty. Maybe the opiates potentiate the nasty feeling when I take them because I'm careful never to consume them simultaneously with alcohol.

 

[Tommyboy]

It could very well be that you are experiencing alcohol withdrawal when you stop drinking for when you are going to use opiates. It can also be that your liver may have some damage due your alcohol use, making it metabolize the opiates differently than before.

 

[NotQuiteThere]

It could very well be that you are experiencing alcohol withdrawal when you stop drinking for when you are going to use opiates. It can also be that your liver may have some damage due your alcohol use, making it metabolize the opiates differently than before.

It's possible, though I doubt it's liver damage. I haven't been drinking excessively for THAT long. i.e. I've definitely been drinking too much but it's been a slow build and one during which I've had adequate nutrition and such. I haven't been a raging alcoholic for 15 years or something where brain damage is a given.

My initial thought is that it could be more related to the anxiety. I can't take hallucinogens anymore either. It almost feels like I'm just unable to feel the positive effects of drugs.

Hell, I know others who say that opiates just make them feel sleepy and shitty, maybe I've just gotta admit that I've become one of them? (Though I should cut out the alcohol of course, I know that's a problem).

 

[Tommyboy]

If you are taking higher doses due to tolerance, then you might just be feeling the side effects more with the increased dose. What doses of what drug were you at?

As for the liver, if you were taking high doses of vicodin, then the tylenol in it could have been damaging to the liver, and moving on to drinking could have continued this. In college I was drinking 10 drinks 3 days a week and my liver had some problems, so don't underestimate the toxicity of alcohol.

 

[NotQuiteThere]

If you are taking higher doses due to tolerance, then you might just be feeling the side effects more with the increased dose. What doses of what drug were you at?

As for the liver, if you were taking high doses of vicodin, then the tylenol in it could have been damaging to the liver, and moving on to drinking could have continued this. In college I was drinking 10 drinks 3 days a week and my liver had some problems, so don't underestimate the toxicity of alcohol.

Well, I rarely consume opiates so I don't think there's much tolerance effect. The pills I had access to were pure 15mg hydrocodone caps (no tylenol). My friend had them prescribed specially due to existing hepatic concerns. In any case I'd either take one or two at a time. I know that 30mg of hydrocodone is a high dose, but in the past my reaction would just be a very floaty, warm, somewhat unaware of my surroundings type state. If I approach that right now, first I start worrying that I've taken too much (even though I know I've taken that dose before and been fine) and then I end up in a nasty place. I've been pretty careful about mixing tylenol with booze. Though I've mixed alcohol frequently with adderall (up to 40mg/day IR) and clonazepam (up to 2mg/day) so those could be partially responsible, though I'm not aware of any negative liver effects they have.

 

[the real yeti]

I'd be surprised if you have any serious, permanent liver or brain/neurological damage, but with alcohol use as heavy as what you've described I'd be equally surprised if you aren't going through the beginnings of alcohol withdrawal when you don't drink so you can take dose the opiates. Alcohol, as well as its withdrawal period, is hard on a lot of different parts of your body. I think you're experiencing alcohol withdrawals while you're trying to enjoy your opiates and it's that interference that's causing your less-than-satisfactory opiate experience.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but I hope it helped!

 

[NotQuiteThere]

Obviously this is just my opinion, but I hope it helped!

Thanks! I'm starting to suspect the same thing. The shittiness I feel is somewhat akin to the same feeling I had when I stopped klonopin cold turkey about 3 years ago (had been taking 2-3mg daily beforehand).

 

[Tommyboy]

You are definitely experiencing anxiety when you take the hydrocodone now. It may be from alcohol withdrawal, or maybe just general.

I didn't mean to scare you about the liver stuff, but figured it needs to be mentioned considering you drink heavily multiple times a week. You're probably fine, but if you continue to use at this rate, it will take its toll on your body.

 

[the real yeti]

Thanks! I'm starting to suspect the same thing. The shittiness I feel is somewhat akin to the same feeling I had when I stopped klonopin cold turkey about 3 years ago (had been taking 2-3mg daily beforehand).

I'll bet that anxiety that you've been feeling is rebound anxiety as a result of alcohol dependence. I just finished a three-month, 45mg-per Xanax prescription and now I'm on a clonazepam prescription, so I can relate. If you weren't aware, (Not assuming you're stupid or anything, I'm just spewing information haha) alcohol and benzodiazepines both enhance the effect of GABA in your brain, which helps control anxiety, among other things. I'm pretty sure that since you seem to have developed a significant dependence to both, and feel similar adverse effects upon discontinuing your consumption, that your dependence (in this case, your alcohol dependence) is going to be the prime source of your anxiety, not anything to do with your body reacting to the opiates differently.

 

[FnX]

I'm some what in the same boat as the OP. I used to get a generally good feeling from opiates (oxycodone) but lately something has changed and when I take them, I feel foggy, nauseous, unable to concentrate, even somewhat depressed. They just make me feel generally shitty. Smoking tobacco intensifies this, have you picked up a smoking habit recently perhaps? I don't really drink alcohol nor use benzos (anymore) and lately I haven't been using cannabis either.. so I've been almost drug free for a while, no withdrawals, yet oxy still makes me feel like shit nowdays. Actually now that I think of it, it's a bit like when I was opiate naive and tried oxy for the first time. I felt really weak, nauseous, kinda depressed and just generally shitty. Maybe your tolerance is too low for you to enjoy opiates sine you don't use them often? Though I wouldn't recommend trying to raise your tolerance to them lol.