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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

First dose of ANY drug ineffective without a "kickstart" 2nd dose

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Steps

Bluelighter
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Nov 11, 2011
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Have you ever heard of someone almost never responding to a first dose of ANYTHING unless a 2nd dose is given? Or even something simple like a hit of weed to make the drug kick in?

It isnt due to tolerance...

I can take 10GRAMS of phenibut and not feel anything... NOT JOKING
but I tried 2g, and 2g 1 hour later... it hit

Or like the time I was on m-amp... 100mg parachute = heaviest dose I've orally done (this was high purity crystal)
but it took 1 hit off a glass pipe for the parachute to hit 90min later

The first dose REALLY is ineffective in all aspects besides heartrate affected, but blood pressure and vasoconsitriction/dilation aren't even effected that much

I took a nap on a 100mg parachute... high purity...

THIS HAPPENS WITH EVERYTHING

ANY explanations?? Theories??

Is this the 'reverse tolerance' phenomenon?




EDIT: O I thought I'd mention something else

With a strong dose... You'd expect DRY MOUTH from stims... Nasal decongestion too... Even from a tinydose... I didn't get even that, which is what was so alarming
 
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*sigh* you asked this in the social and I replied there, steps. Pls decide where you want your post to go!

It's too early and too cold so I am just gonna c+p. Lazy mod.

Steps, I've heard of it with say GBL - some people don't have enough of the enzyme to convert it to GHB in the blood first time, but they do 2nd or 3rd time - and I also have on a less physiological and more psychological level for anything where the high needs to be kinda "learnt". Some things you don't spot til you know what you are looking for.

Phenibut's kinda subtle, could be that? Also was this on two seperate occasions? Because it takes a LONG time to kick in.. And the methamp, not really following but you're saying you took a parachute, then had a hit from the pipe then it hit you? Probably just took a long time for the oral dose to make itself known..

Either that or you're just weird :D
Click to expand...

Also, dosing orally with things is affected a lot by stomach contents and gastric motility. It could have just happened with a few things then you got "conditioned" to feel like it was happening with other things?

Apart from the GBL thing (and there may be other specific physiological examples, it's too early) and the psychological learnt-high thing there is no other reason I can think of. But it is fucking 6am haha..
 
Those were just examples

It happens with every ROA on every drug I've tried since... October-ish?

Zero tolerance Hydrocodone 5mg oral... 90min later redose... Hits hard 30min later
Zero tolerance Oxycodone 5mg while drinking... Nothing
Phenibut 10g, nothing after 2hrs... 2g added... INTENSE AS FUCK (keep in mind the upper dose is 1-2g... I took TEN)
Zero tolerance Oxycodone 10mg... 45min later 10mg... 75min later I start shivering from freezing weather, it kicks in...
M-amp... 59mg parachute... Nada... 3-4 hours later 70mg M-amp snorted... First dose seemed to hit within a couple mins, and snort dose seems to hit in 35mins as usual
etc.
I have WAY MORE situations if you want?
 
1. Maybe it took a while to hit you? 5mgs is low so maybe you needed the second dose to bump your plasma-level up high enough to feel opioid effects?
2. Again, 5mgs is a low dose. I doubt I'd have felt it really, even when I was opioid naive.
3. Phenibut can infact take hours to come on so it could well be that. Took several hours for me.
4. So many variables.. how full was your stomach? Set and setting?
5. ^

I'm really trying to be a dick, haha sorry.. I'm not saying you are wrong, but a few of those can be explained away and once it has happened a few times you expect it to happen with everything which could then become actual conditioning, so you don't get the effects until the second dose is consumed?
 
I think I know what you mean. Like the 1st time I smoked (it WAS good pot) weed I didn't get high, neither did my ex G/F, ex-b/f, nor my sister. The same happened to me w/ cocaine. First time I did it I did the whole bit .. no effect except probable placebo euphoria and a great day attitude. Second and third (etc etc) were all COMPLETELY different... notably in effect. Why? (assuming things ouje cut/s or quality, content of 'applicable' material or active/inactive ingredient etc.

I say all that however in total agreement/stance of most of the posters before me regarding explanation possibilities such as dosing or Roa issues. ... pardon any rambliness. Im a bit ripped.
 
You know, cocaine was the same for me - first time, nothing. Second time, ohhhh I get you. Always assumed I had shit stuff first time. And first time you take anything you don't really know what to expect - which can mean it hits harder for some people/things but could also mean you just don't get it first time maybe..

Maybe your brain does need to "learn" the high for some people?

But that's a bit different to needing to take 2 doses in 1 sitting for something to work. Steps, was this an issue the first time you took something or is it universally the case? Maybe things just take longer to hit you..

Ahh I don't know. Too cold to think properly :)
 
I've done the phenibut & amp scenarios many diff times

Half the time when i take anything orally my stomach is empty

One M-Amp scenario... 100mg parachute, no physical/psychological effects but increased heartrate/bp... Which I keep restating... I TOOK A NAP ON IT FOR GOD'S SAKE
50mg plug 7hrs later... Onset in 15min... Very very intense
25mg plug 1hr 45min later... Intensified effects

Let's see... Also... I've done 40-70mg lines after an initial dose... The lines were always spaced out & always hit...

If its my first drug dose after around 24hrs abstaining... The initial dose never hits unless a 2nd dose is administered or another drug is administered...

100mg oral prob wont hit (62mg+ absorbed)
but if it was a 25mg snort + another 25mg snort it would... (40mg absorbed)
 
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Okay, so it's more of a needing 2 doses every time to kick in the effects thing than a first time you tried it you didn't feel it thing.

Well.. by the time the second dose hits, your plasma levels will spike, so maybe you need that spike to feel anything? Maybe your first dose isn't enough? (NB: not encouraging you to start taking huge initial doses, haha..)

Maybe things do just take a long time to come on for you?

Drug effects aren't uniform too so there could be a degree of learned behaviour/response here. It isn't as simple as X amount of Y drug will always give Z effects when it comes to psychoactives.
 
effie said:
Okay, so it's more of a needing 2 doses every time to kick in the effects thing than a first time you tried it you didn't feel it thing.

Well.. by the time the second dose hits, your plasma levels will spike, so maybe you need that spike to feel anything? Maybe your first dose isn't enough? (NB: not encouraging you to start taking huge initial doses, haha..)

Maybe things do just take a long time to come on for you?

Drug effects aren't uniform too so there could be a degree of learned behaviour/response here. It isn't as simple as X amount of Y drug will always give Z effects when it comes to psychoactives.
Click to expand...

The thing is, 1 dose of say, m-amp... 62mg+ absorbed as an initial dose wont work
But a 25mg nasal and 15-60mins later another 25mg nasal WILL work (40mg absorbed)

Like how 10g phenibut initially never hits
But 2g with 2g 1-3hrs later WILL hit

Oh, and it takes only a daily 2g dose to maintain a 24hr phenibut buzz. So yeah, you can see it seems i need something to hit multiple times, then I get through some "high barrier"... Then if I choose I can maintain low doses inside the barrier... If that makes sense...

I won't dose regularly tho, i refuse. My body hesitates and hesitates the more often i do something... Anti-addictive personality...
 
Well.. then I have no answer for you I'm afraid Steps! I've thought through all the scenarios I can come up with. I still suspect it's a combination of you taking a while to feel things, oral absorption being impaired sometimes, needing that second dose to cause the plasma levels to spike and a degree of now you know it happened a lot before, it always happens now (ie conditioning)..

See if anyone else has a better answer :)
 
effie said:
Well.. then I have no answer for you I'm afraid Steps! I've thought through all the scenarios I can come up with. I still suspect it's a combination of you taking a while to feel things, oral absorption being impaired sometimes, needing that second dose to cause the plasma levels to spike and a degree of now you know it happened a lot before, it always happens now (ie conditioning)..

See if anyone else has a better answer :)
Click to expand...

At this moment... I assume my body metabolizes things so quickly they sometimes don't kick in? Lol
It would explain why alcohol takes 5-10minutes to hit me... Not 30
 
maybe something to do with pH levels in your stomach as well, i think m-amp works well with a less acidic stomach, for oral doses anyway, i think effie has explained the possible reasons as best as anyone can over the internet.

you may just be a rare case, have something strange going on or something unknown, who knows really. Some drugs you do seem to have to learn them to get used to the high, i found this with cannabis and opiates and maybe to some degree ritalin but other drugs just hit me straight in the face like DMT, 5-meo-dmt, or other psychs and stimulants.
 
^ it certainly is true that some people have to learn the high with some drugs.. seems like a strange concept but a lot of people find that. It very much depends on the person/drug.

Amphetamines are absorbed better in a higher pH stomach, it is true.. take some tums with them, Steps! Or give up on meth??

(Double post earlier in thread removed :) )
 
Steps said:
At this moment... I assume my body metabolizes things so quickly they sometimes don't kick in? Lol
It would explain why alcohol takes 5-10minutes to hit me... Not 30
Click to expand...

Who the heck has a metabolism so slow it takes 30 minutes for booze to hit? I feel alcohol's effects in like 2-3 minutes...
 
Steps, it sounds to me like this is all psychosomatic.

Also, it helps to be patient when waiting for drugs to kick in instead of wolfing down another dose shortly afterwards.

Steps said:
At this moment... I assume my body metabolizes things so quickly they sometimes don't kick in? Lol
Click to expand...

...I highly doubt that is the cause of all of this. IMO you either have psyched yourself into not feeling the drugs, aren't being patient enough, or you simply take a second dose before the first one actually kicks in leading you to this 'conclusion.'

This can continue in the social where it was originally posted.

Lay off of the stimulants.
 
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