Opioids switching opiates, and resultant wds likely to occure

[sleepy]

i read the following in an archived post, but feel like the question is worthy of opening... i have limited knowledge, but trust my fellow BLers to have more.. the qt is:
"Assuming equi-potent doses, when one is withdrawing from Opiate-A, and eventually takes a different Opiate-B, then withdraws again, will this SWITCH the withdrawal to Opiate-B?

For example, on Monday I snort 10mg Opana, 3 times within 12 hours (re-dosing twice), for a total of 30mg OM. By Tuesday I start to WD. Then, on Friday (peak WD) I eat 30mg Oxycodone, 3 times within 12 hours, for a total of 90mg OC.

When I WD on Sunday, will I be WDing from OM or OC, or both? Is it the most recently used opiate that dictates the WD, or does the length of OM make it overlap into the OC WD and combine with it? Any knowledge on this is welcome. THX"

--------- i'd say that which ever opiate has the longer half life, would seriously impact the level of wd... for example, three days of methadone vs. three days of dilaudid... would leave you.... depending on your past, possibly pretty strung out, but the methadone is what would linger, and draw it out, making it most painful, for me.... on the other hand, a longer half life, if tapered, makes the wd's an easier adjustment, though it's all hellish. w/o looking up the half lives of the specific opiates named by this poster, i'd assume that three days of a longish half lived opiate, followed another longish half lived opiate, would set you up, if you have a history of opiate abuse, for a hellish w/d, possibly more so than if both were short acting.. but i'm sure there are more knowledgable BLers w/more specific input...

?

 

[shady4091]

I believe that opiate withdraw is just that; opiate withdraw. You're not really withdrawing from OP's or OC's or anything else, you're just withdrawing from opiates in general to a varying degree of intensity depending on the opiate. I could be wrong though, I hope someone else can shed some more light on this.

 

[Sepher]

^ This. Opiate withdrawal is opiate withdrawal is opiate withdrawal. You're correct though Sleepy that the main factors as far as intensity of symptoms and the length of the withdrawal go are half-life, and how fast and intensely a particular opiate administered using a particular ROA hits before the body gets chance to start metabolising it. So, withdrawal from IV heroin for example means relatively intense symptoms over a short withdrawal period when compared to say methadone withdrawal, which is much longer but of a lower intensity.

Withdrawal will peak as the last of the opiate is expelled from the body, whichever of them that is if you've been mixing opiates over the days preceding the start of withdrawal, and then you're basically into recovery mode waiting for endorphin levels to rise and receptor sensitivity to adjust till they come into balance and put an end to the symptoms.

 

[Missykins]

You'll get more info if you post your question to "Other Drugs" rather than "TDS"--drug half-lives, withdrawal times, and
detox protocols are discussed in great detail in that forum.

 

[sleepy]

Missykins is probably right.... i'd hate for a person to get triggered however, browsing though that forum, as it can have that effect, especially if one is experiencing wds... lol! and i just noticed Missykins directed another poster in DS to OD in another thread i've been reading, one that i started i think.....maybe i'm misusing DS.... i do think it a safe place for people struggling though...

You'll get more info if you post your question to "Other Drugs" rather than "TDS"--drug half-lives, withdrawal times, and
detox protocols are discussed in great detail in that forum.

 

[Missykins]

Missykins is probably right.... i'd hate for a person to get triggered however, browsing though that forum, as it can have that effect, especially if one is experiencing wds... lol! and i just noticed Missykins directed another poster in DS to OD in another thread i've been reading, one that i started i think.....maybe i'm misusing DS.... i do think it a safe place for people struggling though...

My reply was definitely not meant to be an admonishment, but if you post your question to "Other Drugs" you'll
get fifteen to twenty replies, easily.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^ OD also features intermediate level pharmacology questions so would probably be the best suited location for this discussion on topic alone... however for that reason, it's been discussed extensively in there in the past so you can already find a lot of discussion on this topic.

I'd say sepher and shady are spot on - opioids are so cross-tolerant, work in such a uniform manner and substitute so completely for one another that you aren't ever withdrawing from oxycodone or oxymorphone specifically but from opioids agonists in general. As was mentioned, the potency and half-life will alter the speed and length of the withdrawal period, however in general, opioids are opioids.

 

[Ligaturd]

Yes but using primarily, lets say OC...and then switching to methadone which has a drastically different half-life. How much methadone use would it take to change the withdrawal to a long and drawn out one. Would 1 day of the use of another opiate/opoid with different charectoristics such as potency or half life; effect the type of withdrawal one would experience?

 

[Dave]

After discussion with a few mods on both sides, I think that this would fit better in OD. Keep in mind, however, that this sort of question has been oft answered, meaning that it is likely to get either merged or closed, as up to the OD mods' discretion.

In the end, this isn't really a 'how to quit' question, but rather a 'I ran out of my choice opiate; will I get WDs if I switch' kind. A valid question, no doubt, but not for TDS.

 

[Fire&Water]

^ This. Opiate withdrawal is opiate withdrawal is opiate withdrawal. You're correct though Sleepy that the main factors as far as intensity of symptoms and the length of the withdrawal go are half-life, and how fast and intensely a particular opiate administered using a particular ROA hits before the body gets chance to start metabolising it. So, withdrawal from IV heroin for example means relatively intense symptoms over a short withdrawal period when compared to say methadone withdrawal, which is much longer but of a lower intensity.

Withdrawal will peak as the last of the opiate is expelled from the body, whichever of them that is if you've been mixing opiates over the days preceding the start of withdrawal, and then you're basically into recovery mode waiting for endorphin levels to rise and receptor sensitivity to adjust till they come into balance and put an end to the symptoms.

"say methadone w/d, which is longer but of a lower intensity" ???
Than what, pure black tar ?

 

[Sepher]

^ Assuming extended use of one or the other withdrawal from methadone is always gonna be longer than that from heroin of whatever type given the massive difference in half-life. Intensity is very subjective as there's a psychological component to withdrawal IMO as well as the purely physical, but IME intensity of withdrawal depends on the intensity of the high produced by a given ROA and follows a similar curve, ROAs causing a fast, intense peak with consequently more immediate metabolisation similarly causing a greater peak intensity of the withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawal from IV base H > withdrawal from smoked base H for instance. I think that generally holds true regardless of the type of opiate used. Why, have you found different?

 

[sleepy]

yes. i have found great difference: kickimg an IV heroine habbit combine w/ just small to moderate, yet dailt methadone..... my monkey was violently ill for over a month! later kicked only IV herion and felt like i
one week of flu in comparison. kicking methadone ....it just never ended.... a month latera, when she was finally able to dress and drive, she just went and scored, while the pure street dope kick was relatively successfull w/ just a few weak ass Vicodins and smooth out the worst days.... then excersize and meetings.. finally got clean. the methadone wds where BOTH long and violent, requiring IV fluids and three r
trips to e- room and still couldnt take it, a month later. but just my monkeys experience. all r different, i suppose, but id take a dope kick instead od a done kick ANY day....

^ Assuming extended use of one or the other withdrawal from methadone is always gonna be longer than that from heroin of whatever type given the massive difference in half-life. Intensity is very subjective as there's a psychological component to withdrawal IMO as well as the purely physical, but IME intensity of withdrawal depends on the intensity of the high produced by a given ROA and follows a similar curve, ROAs causing a fast, intense peak with consequently more immediate metabolisation similarly causing a greater peak intensity of the withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawal from IV base H > withdrawal from smoked base H for instance. I think that generally holds true regardless of the type of opiate used. Why, have you found different?

 

[sleepy]

yes. i have found great difference: kickimg an IV heroine habbit combine w/ just small to moderate, yet dailt methadone..... my monkey was violently ill for over a month! later kicked only IV herion and felt like i
one week of flu in comparison. kicking methadone ....it just never ended.... a month latera, when she was finally able to dress and drive, she just went and scored, while the pure street dope kick was relatively successfull w/ just a few weak ass Vicodins and smooth out the worst days.... then excersize and meetings.. finally got clean. the methadone wds where BOTH long and violent, requiring IV fluids and three r
trips to e- room and still couldnt take it, a month later. but just my monkeys experience. all r different, i suppose, but id take a dope kick instead od a done kick ANY day....

^ Assuming extended use of one or the other withdrawal from methadone is always gonna be longer than that from heroin of whatever type given the massive difference in half-life. Intensity is very subjective as there's a psychological component to withdrawal IMO as well as the purely physical, but IME intensity of withdrawal depends on the intensity of the high produced by a given ROA and follows a similar curve, ROAs causing a fast, intense peak with consequently more immediate metabolisation similarly causing a greater peak intensity of the withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawal from IV base H > withdrawal from smoked base H for instance. I think that generally holds true regardless of the type of opiate used. Why, have you found different?