Dog hit by car after being fed LSD by naked couple

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you don't know what effect pot smoke or acid has on a dog so you're basically making assumptions and using your own shoehorned conclusions to rationalise that what you're doing is acceptable but what they're doing is not.

alasdair

Yes I do know, as far as what I've researched about what effects different drugs have on animals and humans. Your'e the one assuming I'm just some dumb stoner. :\ As far as giving an animal pot over acid, I don't have to take a poll and I'm sure you agree the latter is perverse. Smoking out your animals may be taboo, but justifying it by comparing isn't rationalizing my moral.

L2R, you think people smoking out their pets are fucktards, whereas i see it as a favor they might enjoy.
 
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"I wonder why it's so pervasive. "

i never make that mistakes. EVER. but i've started making the your vs. you're mistakes. WTF? [and I just made "mistake" PLURAL when I shouldn't have! WHATS HAPPENING TO ME?]

I think its some kind of chemical they're putting in our water is making us spell worse, personally. it's nothing to do with globalism, people of different languages mixing, the internet and media replacing books and magazines. :D

glad they might be charged with animal cruelty. stupid hippy fuckheads :D
 
As far as giving an animal pot over acid, I don't have to take a poll and I'm sure you agree the latter is perverse.
i believe giving an animal any drug is perverse.
...whereas i see it as a favor they might enjoy.
Weed has absolutely no positive effects for our animal friends
two statements which completely contradict each other. are you two related? i think we should be told...

alasdair
 
i believe giving an animal any drug is perverse.

two statements which completely contradict each other. are you two related? i think we should be told...

alasdair

How do these contradict each other exactly? Because it has no positive effects means they Won't enjoy the favor? Again, difference of opinions, but I'm getting the feeling that you just like to be right.
 
^ That's because he IS right. Don't give your dog drugs, dude. That's fuckheadedness of the highest order.
 
How do these contradict each other exactly? Because it has no positive effects means they Won't enjoy the favor?
enjoying something is a positive effect. :\

i believe responsible, loving pet owners don't give their pets drugs. you disagree. let's agree to disagree.

alasdair
 
^I think by "effect" he might have meant long term effect, not short term perceptive effect. As in, giving a dog drugs won't increase its overall quality of life, even though the dog might have a nice day.

"i have a problem with their drug use just not my drug use"? it's funny that you would draw the line in a place that makes you a good pet owner and those guys abusive pet owners. i agree with tripman - giving animals drugs is irresponsible.

aside, why on earth would you think that "pet's" needs an apostrophe? it's just "pets". i'm sure you don't want to reinforce the stereotype that stoners are stupid? :)

alasdair

Giving an animal marijuana is clearly a different and less serious thing then giving an animal LSD.

For one, marijuana is mostly a mood lifter with few psychedelic effects, especially at a low dose. Marijuana has less of a propensity to make one act crazy then LSD and generally reduces energy levels instead of raising them.

This dog was given LSD and became psychotic. It bit people that it knew and ran around crazily. If it had been stoned and not on LSD I strongly doubt any of those things would have happened.

It's not a case of "i have a problem with their drug use just not my drug use", it's a case of "some drugs make one less crazy then other drugs, and some drugs are easier to enjoy then others" i.e. it's much easier to have a bad LSD experience that involves psychotic behavior then it is to have a bad cannabis experience that involves psychotic behavior.

Not to advocate giving either drug to dogs, but just saying that there is a very obvious difference and one is clearly safer then the other.

These stories infuriate me, I hate people who treat their animals badly, few things piss me off as much as animal cruelty and I can't imagine the suffering this dog went through between being on LSD and no doubt having a bad trip, being injured by a car and being forcefully restrained and locked into a cage by animal protection.
 
i believe giving an animal any drug is perverse.

Really? This is very surprising to me. It seems to be an extremist position.
When my cat was severely injured, the vet recommended giving him pain killers.
While I try to avoid such drugs, in that case, I thought it was definitely the best choice.
When he was drugged up, he could sleep, and (I believe) make progress toward healing.
When the drugs wore off, he was in pain, and couldn't sleep (therefore, I believe, making it harder to heal).

Additionally, I gave him the antibiotics that were prescribed.

I also gave him catnip several times, though I recognized the fact that it is also a drug.
He seemed to enjoy it thoroughly :)
 
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can you substantiate your claim ? if the difference is as clear as you say it is, you should have no trouble providing a handful of sources. thanks.

alasdair

Maybe you have no / little experience with LSD and cannabis, but those of us with experience likely all agree with psychomimetic.
While cannabis could be "stronger than LSD" in extreme cases, depending on the dose and ROA.
Generally speaking, LSD is far more likely to lead to psychotic episodes, breakdowns, etc.
It depends on the dose, of course, but taken in doses that are considered common by Erowid, the effects are quite strong.
Cannabis, particularly when smoked, is much gentler. It can also lead to breakdowns, but at a much lower rate, judging both on personal experience (including observation of those around me) and based on the proportion of good/bad experiences listed in Erowid's experience vaults.

Additionally, I have known people who gave their dogs both drugs.
(I do not agree with giving animals LSD or cannabis, I should mention, to make my position on the issue clear.)
I tried to avoid such people/situations, but when I observed stoned dogs, they looked relaxed and mellow.
The one time I saw a dog that had been given LSD, it was clearly very upset.

The difference is clear to those of us who have experience.
But a clear difference doesn't always correlate with the existence of a handful of scientific studies.

(Just to harp on the point, while I would never give my pets either LSD or cannabis, if I were forced to choose to either give my dog a tab of acid or blow a few bong hits in his face, I would certainly choose the bong hits. How about you, alasdair?)
 
I don't see how tripping on LSD would make a person give LSD to a dog. I hate news stories like this, it's not the drug that's at fault, it is the idiots who took it.
 
can you substantiate your claim ? if the difference is as clear as you say it is, you should have no trouble providing a handful of sources. thanks.

alasdair

What SlimVictor said.

My sources are experience and common sense. LSD is a much more forceful drug that is much more psychedelic then marijuana. Bad trips on LSD are more likely to involve psychotic behavior, and LSD is more likely to cause an unpleasant experience then marijuana in almost all healthy beings.

I've never seen an animal on LSD, but I've seen cats and dogs on marijuana and 90% of the time they've seemed to be enjoying it. I've seen cats that someone had given marijuana have a bad time, but they still weren't acting psychotic, just confused and scared. I can't imagine an animal having a good LSD trip.

It just seems obvious to me what the difference is, and I think that absolutely anyone who has experience with the two drugs will agree with me that LSD is much more likely to cause a psychotic/bad experience.

Drugging animals still isn't right because you never can predict what will happen to them. But giving them certain drugs is worse then giving them others.

An interesting ethical question arises when we look at the psychoactives commonly prescribed to animals- dogs can be prescribed xanax and zoloft for instance. Is it wrong to give your dog 2 mg of xanax if it's freaking out during a thunderstorm? I know of more then one person who has had their vet direct them to do exactly that. What about giving an animal a daily anti-depressant? Just an interesting thing to think about imo.


And what of catnip? I know someone who once made an extract of catnip and fed his cat a ball of it equivalent to most of a bag of catnip. The cat got crazy and ran around the house at top speed, eventually running directly into a wall. It then acted crazy (but happy) for a while longer. Giving cats catnip is accepted as normal, many people with cats do, and it definitely gets them high.

I know someone else who has a cat that drinks tea and seems to get psychoactive effects from it.

I think blanket statements about drugs such as "giving an animal any drug is perverse" are rarely accurate because drugs vary so much in their effects.
 
This, & for the record, I don't condone drugging animals (yes i know pot is a drug). Simply, would you let your kid start drinking? Never, but you might give em a taste early on.

that's not the same at all.

are you going to give your dog "a taste" of chocolate? clearly people like it, so it can't possibly be very harmful for a dog..... right?

stupid, irresponsible fuck.
 
My sources are experience and common sense. LSD is a much more forceful drug that is much more psychedelic then marijuana. Bad trips on LSD are more likely to involve psychotic behavior, and LSD is more likely to cause an unpleasant experience then marijuana in almost all healthy beings.
everything you're saying seems to be based on the assumption that the human drugs experience maps directly onto the drug experience of animals. what makes you think that animals respond to different drugs exactly the same way that humans react to drugs? it seems to me you're just assuming this is the case and then building your position on that foundation.

do you think it's possible - just possible - that animals might react differently to drugs that humans take, to the way humans react to the same drugs?

let's assume, for the sake of making your argument, that dogs react to pot and lsd in similar ways to humans. i have a friend who's taken lsd many times without negative incident. two of the most psychologically terrifying episodes he had were caused by marijuana. how do you know that the dog to which you (plural) are giving marijuana isn't going to have an adverse reaction? do you accept that individual humans react to different drugs differently? doesn't it then hold that individual animals will react to different drugs differently? would you dose a human without their consent? if not, why would you dose an animal without its consent?
I've never seen an animal on LSD, but I've seen cats and dogs on marijuana and 90% of the time they've seemed to be enjoying it.
your case is so vague it's troubling. your case is, you say, built on experience yet you've never experienced an animal on lsd and you throw out an arbitrary number and say that 90% of the time these animals seemed to be enjoying pot. even the wording you chose confirms that you don't know that they're enjoying themselves - they just seemed to be enjoying themselves. you have no way of knowing whether this is this case. it's this guessing, in large part, that i have trouble with.
I can't imagine an animal having a good LSD trip.
i can and can't imagine a lot of things but i don't assume that because i can or can't imagine something, that's how it is in the real world...
It just seems obvious to me what the difference is...
it seems to me that's your entire case. if i seem to be on your case a little it's because i've been around bluelight a long time and i've put a lot of hard work into this site and i truly believe that, when discussing issues, we have to set the bar higher than "it's obvious!"
But giving them certain drugs is worse then (sic.) giving them others.
i invited you to substantiate this claim with some third-party corroboration. for now, you can't or won't do that. if it's truly as clear as you say it is, you should have absolutely no trouble at all providing a couple of sources which back up your claim. is it really too much to ask somebody who makes a claim to back it up with something more convincing than "come on - it's obvious!".
I think blanket statements about drugs such as "giving an animal any drug is perverse" are rarely accurate because drugs vary so much in their effects.
your post is littered with blanket statements. i invite you to practice what you preach.

alasdair
 
everything you're saying seems to be based on the assumption that the human drugs experience maps directly onto the drug experience of animals. what makes you think that animals respond to different drugs exactly the same way that humans react to drugs? it seems to me you're just assuming this is the case and then building your position on that foundation.

do you think it's possible - just possible - that animals might react differently to drugs that humans take, to the way humans react to the same drugs?

let's assume, for the sake of making your argument, that dogs react to pot and lsd in similar ways to humans. i have a friend who's taken lsd many times without negative incident. two of the most psychologically terrifying episodes he had were caused by marijuana. how do you know that the dog to which you (plural) are giving marijuana isn't going to have an adverse reaction? do you accept that individual humans react to different drugs differently? doesn't it then hold that individual animals will react to different drugs differently? would you dose a human without their consent? if not, why would you dose an animal without its consent?
your case is so vague it's troubling. your case is, you say, built on experience yet you've never experienced an animal on lsd and you throw out an arbitrary number and say that 90% of the time these animals seemed to be enjoying pot. even the wording you chose confirms that you don't know that they're enjoying themselves - they just seemed to be enjoying themselves. you have no way of knowing whether this is this case. it's this guessing, in large part, that i have trouble with.
i can and can't imagine a lot of things but i don't assume that because i can or can't imagine something, that's how it is in the real world...
it seems to me that's your entire case. if i seem to be on your case a little it's because i've been around bluelight a long time and i've put a lot of hard work into this site and i truly believe that, when discussing issues, we have to set the bar higher than "it's obvious!"
i invited you to substantiate this claim with some third-party corroboration. for now, you can't or won't do that. if it's truly as clear as you say it is, you should have absolutely no trouble at all providing a couple of sources which back up your claim. is it really too much to ask somebody who makes a claim to back it up with something more convincing than "come on - it's obvious!".
your post is littered with blanket statements. i invite you to practice what you preach.

alasdair


First off, I never said that I gave drugs to my dog. I don't. I said I've seen dogs who had been given drugs by other people.

I'm not saying that dogs react exactly the same to these drugs as humans do. I'm saying they react in a very similar way.

I've watched dogs beg for marijuana. I've also seen cats that begged for marijuana- cats that would reliably, every time anyone smoked in the room, come up and rub their heads against the pipe and lighter and beg. One cat I'm thinking of was completely standoffish and wouldn't let a person touch them unless the person had a pipe in their hand.

I can assume that humans and dogs and cats react similarly to cannabis because I've seen them on the drug and the effects are very similar. The animal will usually lay down and relax, eat more then usual and act very pleased in general. Often times it will nod in and out of sleep or sleep for a very long time.

I also never said that people necessarily react better to marijuana then to LSD, just usually. As in, if a randomly selected person takes 3 hits of acid they are more likely to freak out then if they smoke a blunt. There aren't studies I know of testing this, but having seen hundreds of people on each drug I can say that I've never seen someone freak out on cannabis to the same extent I've seen them freak out on LSD, and I've only observed 1 bad cannabis experience vs dozens of bad LSD ones. I know you won't accept this info because I'm not a scientist in a lab, but I don't care because I believe worldly understanding and experience counts for a lot.

On top of that, I think that the significantly longer duration of LSD would make a bad experience more likely for an animal.

I think it's possible that somewhere there is a dog that loves LSD but freaks out on marijuana. But I think that is the exception to the rule.

Basically I think that what you are saying is an example of absolutist Scientism.

Not everything has studies done on it. And not everything needs to. It's very obvious that giving a dog LSD is far more irresponsible then giving a dog cannabis. If you can't understand why without reading a scientific study I suggest you get out more, because humans can learn in many ways other then reading studies online. Including observing our environment and through personal experience.

Scientific studies aren't the end-all be-all of human understanding, and studies aren't necessary to back up every argument made. Just because there aren't studies to prove something doesn't mean that it's not true.

Also it's an interesting double standard that you think giving dogs LSD is wrong but you demand that there be studies in which dogs were given LSD. Wouldn't that be morally abhorrent in the same way as what the people in this article did? Should such studies exist, ethically speaking?

Anyway, I think we can just agree to disagree, but I find Slimvictor's hypothetical situation applies perfectly- if you had to, would you rather give your dog cannabis or LSD?

I'll agree to disagree, we each have our own views, I don't think that studies are necessary (or would be ethical to do) to show that giving a non-human animal LSD is worse then giving one cannabis.

Neither of us can prove our point or disprove the other person's so there's no reason to debate it.
 
On top of that, I think that the significantly longer duration of LSD would make a bad experience more likely for an animal.
this is the point i'm making. lsd has a longer duration than marijuana in humans. how do you know how long the effects of lsd and marijuana last in animals or are you just assuming that, because lsd last longer in humans it will, therefore, last longer in animals?

it's this kind of assumption that i have a problem with. if you can demonstrate, with some substantiation, that you're not basing your conclusions on assumptions, i'm all ears...
It's very obvious that giving a dog LSD is far more irresponsible then giving a dog cannabis.
it's very obvious if you make certain assumptions. if you're happy to set the bar for discussion here at "it's obvious, isn't it?" that's fine.

i think we can and should do a lot better than that.
Just because there aren't studies to prove something doesn't mean that it's not true.
if you make a claim and you're unable or unwilling to back up your claim beyond "it's obvious, isn't it?", then that speaks to the veracity of the claim. you're well within your rights to make claims and refuse to substantiate them. i'm within my rights to point out the problem, as i see it, with that kind of position.
if you had to, would you rather give your dog cannabis or LSD?
that's a false dilemma. i choose option 3 - neither.

alasdair
 
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