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Opioids I've tapered, now what?

J

John Smith 11

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
17
Hello all -

I have been a semi-frequent visitor to this board for the past few months. This is my first time posting. I have completed my taper schedule, now I need help/advice making the final jump. Here are the cliff notes:

Addicted for about 18 months
snorting 90mg at the height of addiction
Started taper 4 months ago and gradually weaned off
Stuck at 7.5-10mg per day...having trouble going lower.

Now first, I understand that some of you have monstrous addictions and that mine pales in comparison. I do not mean to upset or offend anyone by asking advice for what amounts to a rounding error compared to most problems. That said, I was not always at this point...this is worked down from a habit 10x as bad. Although I am doing considerably less, I still can't get through a day, or much less a few hours without having the urge to sniff a pill. I have tried various things to help taper:

Kratom
Benzo's
codeine
hydro 5mgs orally
LOTS of weed

Now here's what makes it complicated:

No one knows (family and friends included)
Obtaining the pills illegally at this point
I work 100 hours a week in a high paced financial job (cant take time off to detox)
Training for a shot at a pro sport
Studying for graduated admission tests
I have political ambitions - cant see a doctor for fear of tarnishing my medical record

Point is, I need to (or at least try) to do this alone. I understand how difficult that is but I am not in a position where I can solicit hep without ruining my life and reputation.

Is there anyone who has had similar difficulties?
How long do you think w/d will take from a habit as small as mine?
Is there ANY way to legally obtain Bup without it appearing on medical records?
At this point i'm also addicted to snorting - any advice? I'm trying to maintain an oral dose but keep slipping...

I'm at the point where I am losing the drive to fully w/d. Life gets so busy and I almost want to maintain the 7-10mg per day habit until I have time to deal with this issue. I know thats not the right thing to do (spare me the rhetoric) but I cant help but think its better than the alternative at this point - especially considering how much I have on my plate right now.

Thanks for reading. Any shared experiences or advice/encouragement would be VERY much appreciated.
 
If you stop it's going to suck for 5-8 days. Then it's still all you're going to think about for a long while. Just wanting a little bit and trying to convince yourself it's okay. I didn't want to get clean, and I kept convincing myself I didn't need to. I just bit the bullet and jumped off after a long taper. Staying clean is hard, but if that's what you need then just do it. It's going to be miserable. But what's really the alternative? I'd take hating my life for a week over ruining the rest of it. Good luck, I wish you the best.
 
That's on you and your mental state. If you're staying busy and focused and don't relapse, maybe 2 weeks of craving it at every turn. That's really subjective though. When I got off heroin, I thought it about everyday for 2 months. Less and less over time until I finally just stopped caring and was happy to be off it. When I got off vicodin, it's wasn't as severe. If you stay busy and positive and believe that what you're doing is making you into what/who you want, then it's easier. What helped me the most was staying away from the temptation until I was strong enough to look a bottle of pills and not take one. Because I knew what that would bring back around. That all too easy slip back into addiction.

I hope I'm helping, I feel like I'm being a little long winded.
 
Wd sucks ... no matter what no matter the taper the fact is I find that EVERY wd is the worst WD no matter how bad it really is. I mean I have WD from it all and I have had some BAD BAD WD in the hosptial unable to move almost dead WD. Just bite the bullet you did the drugs now its time to pay up.
Except it. Except you will feel bad, then worse. Your not that bad off. A week of WD maybe and a couple months before you kick back to feeling normal I say. I have had Hardcore WD for months and its been 7months im still in the dumps. Do it now man your not bad off trust me you'll be ok.
 
xxsicknessxx said:
Wd sucks ... no matter what no matter the taper the fact is I find that EVERY wd is the worst WD no matter how bad it really is. I mean I have WD from it all and I have had some BAD BAD WD in the hosptial unable to move almost dead WD. Just bite the bullet you did the drugs now its time to pay up.
Except it. Except you will feel bad, then worse. Your not that bad off. A week of WD maybe and a couple months before you kick back to feeling normal I say. I have had Hardcore WD for months and its been 7months im still in the dumps. Do it now man your not bad off trust me you'll be ok.
Click to expand...

You have been having opiate withdrawals for months? I find that hard to believe......
 
I just want to be encouraging b/c that can be hard to come by as a closet user.

similar difficulties? Yeah. I think my underlying issues are the issue and until I fix them up I am going to play the on again off again game. I have kicked plenty of times but never for very long, mostly because otherwise I can't get juggle all the shit I need to juggle (80-90 hour work weeks here and no end in sight for the next 8+ months depending on how a few factors play out, I do not have the income to match the hours and am usually just getting by, and while I do have insurance i cannot use it for this). So the will to kick for good is just... lacking I guess. I have done a good job of getting my habit down to a more manageable level but am still struggling with the whole "living unmedicated" thing. I guess I'm not any good at it.

post-w/d misery is as mentioned subjective. you have a lot to look forward to though, and plans for the future, and are busy so that should be in your favor unless the habit developed as a means to cope with all the stuff on your plate in which case I don't know what to say, man. But what obscure said is imo solid advice.

I wrote a reply earlier today in another thread about how I've tapered before, and switching away from my DOC is usu. key for me - it's not for everybody but maybe worth a look if you're in research mode. The whole bite the bullet/you play you pay is true to an extent, but there really are ways to alleviate some of the misery, and it sounds like you have done some research on that and already know that the mental/urge thing is the biggest hurdle sometimes. I feel a lot better right now than I did at 2:30 but waking up sick was a big bucket of cold water when i had convinced myself i was doing better and had a good plan going. and that of course brought a nice big dose of shame with it :/ and the sort of "why do i even bother when i always go back" sort of thinking. that internal self-defeating thing blows.

Don't beat yourself up too bad- tapering down to where you are was a big deal and that final jump is real hard. I have found it was always easier to jump off when I could have a change of scene/pace, get out of town for a while, maybe stay somewhere where somebody else would take out the garbage and cook a meal every once in a while, if I had vacation time coming. Problem for me is staying low - I stink at it, and if I don't jump off, my dose will just go back up and all that work to get low is out the window.

But you sure as hell aren't alone anyway! good luck.
 
I wish I had advice....I'm tapering not by choice but due to lack of source for my DOC, things I can't get, etc....and it blows. It's barely keeping me going and I pretty much think about getting another fix all day long. I am not ready to quit again yet....if you are, quit man, and be rid of it. I agree w/ the month or so before you're not thinking of it all day long. Good luck.
 
bliz62 said:
I wish I had advice....I'm tapering not by choice but due to lack of source for my DOC, things I can't get, etc....and it blows. It's barely keeping me going and I pretty much think about getting another fix all day long. I am not ready to quit again yet....if you are, quit man, and be rid of it. I agree w/ the month or so before you're not thinking of it all day long. Good luck.
Click to expand...

i am in the same boat...again. found my self empty handed at work today which does suck.

you tapered to a really small dose. its not gonna b long until you are good. the longer you ride this out the longer its gonna suck.
 
opiate WD is never more than a couple of weeks... but then what about PAWS.. that can last forever (and its what kept me from staying clean)
 
Have you tried Gabapentin, that's been used off label for opiate withdrawal, quite effective according to a number of people.

You could try Ibogaine, suppose that's less viable if you live in the US cos the idiots scheduled it. Are you based in the US?

Antidepressntas may help things mentally.

Alternatively if your not ready to quit, you could switch to Poppy tea- its cheaper, has longer halflife (less rattling) and is easy and non time consuming to aquire (at least it is in the UK). I hold down a decent job and I've been addicted for approx 2 years.
 
Hey I tried poppy tea, googled extensively.. as I do everything. I don't know if it's because I'm female (we're crap at rattling) but ANYTHING I have tried like this to get my habit down just doesn't touch the sides. I found the right heads and made a tank load of the manky shite.. all it did was make me gag and stink out my kitchen :(
 
If you have as much to look forward to as you say, that should help your state of mind. Keep focused on it. Let it drive you. Make it your drug! What chemical is it that you're coming off anyways? Oxy? Roxis? It's been my experience that vicodin does help a little with Oxycodone WD, but still will get the chills, uneasiness. That's my experience though and everyone's body is different.

Think positive as much as you can. I know that can nearly be impossible at a time like this. A few years ago, I stopped Roxi 30s 8X/day, took Subs for 5 days, and eventhough I didn't feel good, I pushed myself and exercised 3x a day. Within a month had a six pack again and felt healthy.

I can only speak of my own experiences. I hope you're doing well today.

You might want to try Imodium for a while. Take 4-6 of them and see how you feel in an hour or so. If it helps, do that for a few days and taper off of that. If this is your first time coming off, your WDs might not be so bad since you're not taking so much anymore. Imodium will constipate you, but it has helped me before. Your mental state will be a big deciding factor in this. Keep the faith.
 
Thanks for all the advice. This has been very helpful. When I do eventually go cold turkey, should I avoid taking Codeine or Kratom (anything with opiod properties)?

I have some Clonidine - has anyone used that before?
 
I am about to enter withdrawal and need to know if I can take Codeine and/or Kratom...

Codeine and Kratom are opioids, right? So wont that keep me from withdrawing? Will it prolong withdrawal?

In addition to Codeine and Kratom, I have some Benzo's, weed, Kpin, adderall, immodium, Flexeril, clonidine and ambien. Does anyone have suggestions on when to take these meds or possible interactions I should watch out for? I'm not prescribed to any of these meds, i've just accumulated them in preparation for withdrawal. Any advice on how to put these tools to use would be much appreciated.

Thank you.
 
John Smith 11 said:
I am about to enter withdrawal and need to know if I can take Codeine and/or Kratom...

Codeine and Kratom are opioids, right? So wont that keep me from withdrawing? Will it prolong withdrawal?

In addition to Codeine and Kratom, I have some Benzo's, weed, Kpin, adderall, immodium, Flexeril, clonidine and ambien. Does anyone have suggestions on when to take these meds or possible interactions I should watch out for? I'm not prescribed to any of these meds, i've just accumulated them in preparation for withdrawal. Any advice on how to put these tools to use would be much appreciated.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Using codeine like using morphine in a lot of ways. They might prolong withdrawal, as it's just the same thing; mu-opioid agonism. However, you can use codeine to taper down.

Kratom is better for when you forego codeine and above. :)
 
K88ABY, PAWS stands for Post-Acute-Withdrawal Syndrome, and covers a broad spectrum of effects including but not limited to withdrawal-like symptoms like restlessness, craving, sleep disturbances, mood disorders, etc. Wikipedia reckons up to 90% of Opiate users suffer from it to some extent, but the definition is so broad as to make that figure almost meaningless. Just feeling down and unusually sensitive to stress would be enough to put you into the PAWS catch-all according to the definition on there.

John, which variant of Codeine is it, and how strong? Codeine Phosphate, Dihydrocodeine, other variant, how many mgs, is it mixed with anything? Never been on Subutex and had to come off it but I've used low doses of 30mg Codeine Phosphate to detox off a long-term IV Heroin habit. YMMV, but 240mg-300mg max for me at the peak of withdrawal coming off upwards of a gram base Heroin / day, suggest you try for much lower if possible, see how you go. It really helped alleviate the worst symptoms. Still felt dreadful but it was bearable. I took as little as I could comfortably stand so as not to interfere with withdrawal starting with a low dose day 1, increased dose slightly day 2 and day 3, then cut dose hard and fast as things improved over days 4 and 5 aiming to be taking none whatsoever by day 6. It's not strong enough to prolong withdrawal all that much if you dose right over the shortest term possible, or give you something else to rattle off at the end of it. I understand the time-scale may well be very different for Subs, I don't know, but that's the general idea. Course, it will be better and should be a faster detox if you can do it cold without the aid of other Opiates, excepting the Loperamide you've got as I understand it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier.

The Clonidine should help a good bit if you tolerate it well, though sometimes doesn't feel like it's doing much cos you're still rattling, restless and twitchy, and don't know how much worse you'd have been without it. I found it played havoc with my blood pressure and made me really woozy and light-headed, and Lofexidine was better for me. Clonidine might be just fine for you. Again, start low, upping dose slightly up to peak withdrawal using as little as you feel comfortable with, and taper it as you come out the backside of the withdrawal so as not to get rebound hypertension effects from it in its own right.

I don't know anything about Adderall, but I'm not sure stimulants of any kind are a good idea when you're withdrawing. Your Noradrenaline's gonna be rebounding through the roof anyways, though I think to a lesser extent off subs than off Heroin. That's what the Clonidine's there to help with. Not sure you want anything in you that would tend to kick that up or other adrenals anyways. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will come along and expand on that.

I'd hang on to the sleepers for a bit, and maybe try not to use them for the nights when withdrawal's at its peak, cos if you're anything like me you'll not sleep no matter how many you take, and will just feel even groggier and more lethargic with shitloads of downers swimming round your system when your body's already at a low ebb energy wise. Not sure it's a good idea taking Benzos with Clonidine anyways, seems to be risky from the very little I've read, so keep them for the post-acute phase to give yourself a break and help try and re-establish some kind of normal sleeping pattern. It was not sleeping and being desperate for just a few hours out of it that always broke me in the end.

Having said all that, you really should see a doc about this. They have to treat anything you tell them confidentially surely? There's knowledgeable people about can advise in general terms, but they can't advise you on which drugs in what combination might be safe for you not knowing your medical history

Best of luck fella. Hang in there, keep tough, ride it out no matter what. You can beat it.
 
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