the great debate: Is responsible, controlled, "successful" opiate use EVER possible?

[Pegasus]

That's the problem, you think you have a hold on it, and your DOC is working better than ever, so you think it is OK to use friday night, saturday, and a little on sunday morning...BUT OH NOS, you wake up on Monday in WDs...now you have to use to go to work. Now you are stuck using until Friday. You know how it goes.

Yeah, this is key right here. What you could once get away with becomes problematic, and you'll likely find yourself dosing to stave off w/d on days where you thought you would feel fine.

 

[Soccertrendy]

having recently came onto this forum i am amazed at how many people experience the excact same as me!

i agree with the above statement, if you need to ask and get reassurance then you already know

 

[burn out]

for me the problem with using say, once a week, is that it just isn't enough to satisfy me. i'd spend the whole week wishing it was my using day. the least often i could use and still feel satisfied was every third day. that worked great for a while but i eventually started developing mild withdrawal symptoms on my non using days. it was nothing terrible but it was annoying enough to make me want to use to get rid of it and so i fell into daily use.

when i get clean, if i go back to using at all i will have to limit to once a month. i think anything more than that, will be me just lying to myself. if i try to use weekly, it will turn into daily. once a month is far enough apart that i could probably handle but then the question for me is if i am goign to use that infrequently, why even bother at all? Why go through the trouble of exercising will power to control my use to once a month, for just one high? i know its possible, but is it worth the effort?

basically, my belief about addiction is not that its impossible to control one's use. i believe it is very possible. the question is, is it worth it? i believe this is the reason so many people fail at using every weekend. not because that's not possible to do but because the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. the pain of being away from your DOC the whole week, outweighs the pleasure you get from it on the weekend. so if you want to use, you might as well use as much as you want. otherwise, why bother?

 

[bampot]

This is the crux of the matter I suppose - you have to weigh up the pleasure of being able to indulge in your DOC with the fact that you will be looking forward to that experience, even craving that experience for the rest of the time, possibly to the detraction of the other things in your life. So here's another question (directed at those who have either decided to keep using self-control and keep using occasionally, and also at those who have given up as it is just not worth it for them):

Is it better to have something to greatly look forward to, but that you must constantly inhibit yourself from doing, or to go through the painful realization (and hopefully, eventually gladful acceptance) that you will never do it again? In my opinion (and I should say that I am vaguely Buddhist), the expectation is at least 90% of the experience. How difficult must it be to forego the expectation, let alone the experience itself (which is never as good as the expectation leads one to believe it will be)?

 

[suessmayr]

I don't think you need to make a decision right now to forego the expectation as well as the experience. The trick is to just put as much clean time as possible on the calendar, and to try to have some faith that enough sobriety will make you not want to get wasted.

I got into opiates (oxycodone and morphine) through codeine and benzos. Then I was on buprenorphine or methadone for about 3 years. I'm now nearly 6 months clean. I clearly don't feel great, but I feel better than I did a month or even a week ago. In my case the opiates were destructive - they eventually made me hateful, introverted and lazy. I suppose that if they had made me a better or happier person it would have been harder to get clean.

I think that if a person finds himself online asking about opiate use he is almost certainly at risk of addiction. Probably, he even knows this on some level. To the OP - even if it were possible to use opiates once or twice a week without developing a full on physical dependency, you would absolutely become mentally addicted. And you would be living a constantly sub-standard life - you would feel great once or twice a week and anxious, depressed, tired and apathetic the rest of the time. So my answer is this: that although you probably will be able to use opiates again, you need to forget about them for now. It needs to be truly incidental use in the sense that there is zero planning and it takes up zero of your energy and thinking. Of course, even that is dangerous but I'm trying to be realistic.

 

[Tommyboy]

OD --> DC and merged into similar existing thread.

 

[Alex000]

Opiates are not the devil, and while they are extremely addictive, they can be used responsibly, of course.

 

[Aether]

Kratom is supposedly very easy to use responsibly.

I've found kratom to be quite easy to handle. I think this is a combination of it being difficult to dose (compared to other opiates) and having a sweet spot where more will just make you feel worse.

 

[verso]

No. It's impossible to use opiates responsibly; addiction occurs 100% of the time and in 100% of users regardless of age, sex, genetic makeup, education, environment, self-control, route of administration, any other and all factors entirely. It only takes one dose, just one dose, that very first dose, and you're hooked, hopelessly addicted, living out of your car and performing sexual favors for drugs.

In fact, I once knew a bright young girl from a well-known, upstanding family... a young girl whose future looked promising, that is, until I witnessed her at a party taking percocet without a doctor's prescription. It was her first time taking an opiate, I later learned, and, well, when I ran back into her later that night just two hours later... it was in the hallway to my apartment building servicing not one, not two, but twenty-six gentleman all at the same time. She had a cock in her kisser, two in her ears, and tears streaming down her face. I asked her, "Sweetheart, what are you doing? What has happened to you?" And she unfeelingly replied, "I should have never taken that percocet..."

Addiction 100% of the time. No exceptions.

 

[kaywholed]

The problem I see with people who have controlled, responsible use... is that your one fuck up/binge/badweek/etc from sliding down the slippery slope to uncontrolled addiction.

 

[verso]

The problem I see with people who have controlled, responsible use... is that your one fuck up/binge/badweek/etc from sliding down the slippery slope to uncontrolled addiction.

And those who drink alcohol responsibly too? Are those people always one fuck up/binge/bad week/etc away from sliding down the slippery slope to alcoholism?

I'm not sure why we like to imagine opiates as being completely unique, almost supernatural, extraordinary substances not only capable and likely to cause addiction but guaranteeing it. Like alcohol, opiates trip the reward system and induce all those good feelings. These substances are so much more alike than we think.

 

[Folley]

No. It's impossible to use opiates responsibly; addiction occurs 100% of the time and in 100% of users regardless of age, sex, genetic makeup, education, environment, self-control, route of administration, any other and all factors entirely. It only takes one dose, just one dose, that very first dose, and you're hooked, hopelessly addicted, living out of your car and performing sexual favors for drugs.

In fact, I once knew a bright young girl from a well-known, upstanding family... a young girl whose future looked promising, that is, until I witnessed her at a party taking percocet without a doctor's prescription. It was her first time taking an opiate, I later learned, and, well, when I ran back into her later that night just two hours later... it was in the hallway to my apartment building servicing not one, not two, but twenty-six gentleman all at the same time. She had a cock in her kisser, two in her ears, and tears streaming down her face. I asked her, "Sweetheart, what are you doing? What has happened to you?" And she unfeelingly replied, "I should have never taken that percocet..."

Addiction 100% of the time. No exceptions.

Sounds like she got lucky!!!


I used to do opiates and benzos all the time, I got them free. I never got addicted to them. Dont even want to do them anymore, I dont want to be tired and not be able to do shit all day.

but Ive had pretty heavy psychological dependence on other drugs that most people would say are not addictive at all, it depends on the person

 

[Tommyboy]

No. It's impossible to use opiates responsibly; addiction occurs 100% of the time and in 100% of users regardless of age, sex, genetic makeup, education, environment, self-control, route of administration, any other and all factors entirely. It only takes one dose, just one dose, that very first dose, and you're hooked, hopelessly addicted, living out of your car and performing sexual favors for drugs.

In fact, I once knew a bright young girl from a well-known, upstanding family... a young girl whose future looked promising, that is, until I witnessed her at a party taking percocet without a doctor's prescription. It was her first time taking an opiate, I later learned, and, well, when I ran back into her later that night just two hours later... it was in the hallway to my apartment building servicing not one, not two, but twenty-six gentleman all at the same time. She had a cock in her kisser, two in her ears, and tears streaming down her face. I asked her, "Sweetheart, what are you doing? What has happened to you?" And she unfeelingly replied, "I should have never taken that percocet..."

Addiction 100% of the time. No exceptions.

Haha. This is great. You should sell this story to D.A.R.E.

 

[redsweater]

i reckon the most important factor allowing people to chip is having a limited supply
i would probably use oxy everyday but can only get it occasionally hence my use is rare and ive been in the "romantic" period for over a year

 

[footscrazy]

I've been using heroin for about 3 years now, about 30 or so times in all, I never felt any pull towards it but that's because I don't particularly like it.

However in the last few months I have begun using codeine, which I do like, and since then I've started becoming more fond of other opiates, including smack, and my usage has been increasing.

Funny to see this post of mine from over a year ago. Since then I began using codeine daily, and felt a stronger and stronger pull to heroin, which I began using 3 or 4 days a week for 6 months or so. I've been able to stop any use of stronger opiates like heroin or oxy since then, and reduce my codeine usage, but I can see how even someone who's been able to use opiates sparingly for years can fall into the trap when circumstances change - for me it took quitting my DOC, meth, to see my opiate use increase. I'm in prime position to fall back into heavy usage too - the only thing stopping me at this point is my move across country, which I took in part to get me away from those temptations.

 

[MikeOekiM]

anythings possible but i bet if u use it 2+ years chances are very unlikely imo

 

[Mystril]

Well in the case of my girlfriend & I, I had Oxynorm 20mg's (the name in OZ for the IR release oxy's) prescribed for pain for the first time some 18 months ago.
My girl had some bad backpain 8 months ago, so I popped her one and she was impressed not only by the pain inhibiting qualities, but also by the smooth mellow high - not to mention the huge (and positive) effect it had on her sex-drive with the lessening in inhibitions

We use it, when we choose to take them, recreationally now - I can get it legally through my GP via prescription whenever I need it, but we do not overdo it at all, primarily because we do not need it all the time, but also for the very real consideration that our use is not reflected in continuous and unrealistic requests for more & more through my doc.

Thing is, by recreationally, we might have one each per week, maybe on a Friday or Saturday night, just to add a little bit of unhibited action to take full flow, but we also are quite capable of - and certainly do for the majority part - say no, and just have a great time irrespective.

We don't need to take it - but when we both decide to, it is nice, for sure. The effects, when we choose to pop a 20 mg Oxy IR each, lasts for us both approximately 5 - 6 hours and no point denying it isn't nice, because it is. But we also enjoy at least equal non-Opiate times, and the ratio of taking the Oxys on weekends, as opposed to not, would probably & honestly be 50/50, maybe even tending to 45/55.

It's up to other to judge whether or not this is chipping, addiction or otherwise, but bottom line is we don't need it and could give it up tomorrow if we had to - no drama's or regrets.

 

[Herbal~Jah]

I'm a little confused by the question. Is it asking whether we think a person can live a happy/normal/successful life while being on a opiate/opioid every day? If that's the question then I defiantly think its very plausible to take opiates everyday and be normal, as long as your taking a proper dose and not getting super faded everyday and just nodding on the couch all day doing nothing. So yeah as long as you had an unlimited supply of the opiate you are taking then its totally plausible to live a normal life just as a sober person, the only difference is that you need to eat a opiate pill everyday, just like a vitamin. The problems come when you take the opiate away from the person dependent on them when things start to get worse.

First of all yes, its impossible to use opiates every day and not become dependent upon them. Hypothetically speaking I think if you had an unlimited supply of your opiate and used it responsibly (not getting faded and nodding out all day) then yeah what would be the problem? So what your 'dependent' on it but if you have it everyday you will be fine. Its like Vitamins, you need them to survive, whats so different from needing vitamins and needing a pill each day to feel good and survive, the problem with opiates is that it would be very very hard to realistically acquire enough to last a lifetime. unless you were a doctor which brings me to my next point.



I read on the internet somewhere awhile ago that there was a study conducted that examined two twin brothers, One was a Doctor who had something like a 50+ year time frame of using morphine everyday (in moderate doses) under his belt, basically he had been addicted to morphine for more then half his life. The other brother was a lawyer that never did a single drug. The study wanted to see what the differences were health wise b/w the two brothers. They finished keeping tabs on the brothers when they were 80 some years old. They had concluded that the brother who had been using morphine for the past 50 years (he was a Dr, and this study was done awhile ago, so he was able to never run out of morphine until the day he died) and the brother, who wasn't on opiates his whole life, that there was no visible or health or psychological differences between the two (twin) brothers and were both given a clean bill of health.

So basically I guess you could say this study shows that the use of opiates (in moderate/normal doses) doesn't harm your body, organs or your brain....As long as you have the opiate drug everyday...The problems come when you run out. But if you wanted to then yes you could live on an opiate everyday and be a functioning member of society.

 

[Tommyboy]

^ The question is whether or not people can "chip" on the weekends and such without forming a daily habit.

Opiates are safe drugs when taken in moderate doses. It's complications from IVing the drugs that is the real danger with them. Opiates are prescribed for long-term use, and have been so for a long time. If they were harmful, then this would have been stopped.

 

[charcoal]

I've spent the last 4 or 5 years eating whatever opioid happens to come my way, but not actually going out and seeking them.