Morninggloryseed
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Makes as much sense as anything, your mileage (or kilometers for my non-american friends) can and will vary.
Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Eticyclidone / 2‘-Oxo-PCE Thread
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Asante
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I have been going all over the web looking at the very few Tiletamine reports there were. Almost all of them, including many who said they had the real thing, were Telazol (Tell Us All) type mixtures of half Tel, half Zolazepam, intended to have a benzo blackout overshadow the dissociative experience to prevent animals freaking out. This obviously causes excess zombification, memory holes, enhanced addictiveness and compulsiveness, diminished entheogenic effects.
I got a big observation I saw mentioned nowhere online, here it is:
Tiletamine is the thienyl version of O-PCE. It is O-TCE.
Likewise, O-PCE is the phenyl version of Tiletamine.
Tiletamine is to O-PCE what TCP is to PCP
O-PCE is big, now that MXE is out of the picture.
Tiletamine is likely similar to O-PCE, a tad more potent and a bit shorter acting (thiophene metabolizes faster than benzene) that O-PCE and likely a tad more stimulant.
Tiletamine = O-TCE
Its probaly not nearly as fun as MXE and definitely "not for everyone" but I think that people appreciating O-PCE might appreciate O-TCE if it came without the ubiquitous benzodiazepine wallop.
I don't want to be in a benzo blackout, but if I have to be, then certainly not on a strong dissociative. This is why we keep benzo doses very low on dissociatives, to avoid going off the rails.
Interestingly O-PCE is rapidly soluble in water, so Tiletamine will likely be also.
I got a big observation I saw mentioned nowhere online, here it is:
Tiletamine is the thienyl version of O-PCE. It is O-TCE.
Likewise, O-PCE is the phenyl version of Tiletamine.
Tiletamine is to O-PCE what TCP is to PCP
O-PCE is big, now that MXE is out of the picture.
Tiletamine is likely similar to O-PCE, a tad more potent and a bit shorter acting (thiophene metabolizes faster than benzene) that O-PCE and likely a tad more stimulant.
Tiletamine = O-TCE
Its probaly not nearly as fun as MXE and definitely "not for everyone" but I think that people appreciating O-PCE might appreciate O-TCE if it came without the ubiquitous benzodiazepine wallop.
I don't want to be in a benzo blackout, but if I have to be, then certainly not on a strong dissociative. This is why we keep benzo doses very low on dissociatives, to avoid going off the rails.
Interestingly O-PCE is rapidly soluble in water, so Tiletamine will likely be also.
crOOk
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One of it's biggest strong points imho.
You sure made tiletamine sound like it could be worth a try after all. It shouldn't be that hard to separate the time travel essence from the truth serum, right?
Kaleida
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Tiletamine is indeed an arylcyclohexylamine; the only difference between tiletamine and 2'-Oxo-PCE is that the aryl is a thienyl instead of a phenyl.
Interestingly, there is also this very recent scientific paper showing that tiletamine has anxiolytic properties that ketamine does not in rodents. I would certainly be very interested to hear what people think of it....
Interestingly, there is also this very recent scientific paper showing that tiletamine has anxiolytic properties that ketamine does not in rodents. I would certainly be very interested to hear what people think of it....
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Edit -
Sorry if this does not belong here-- at the time I wrote it, it just flowed from my fingertips. Wonders that she, the great Arylcyclohecylamine goddess keeps showing at me. I try to be more careful....
------------------
Fresh from the works:
I see it - namely, I see how it is possible that a molecule can flip around the page and reveal the cosmic machinery, which is sort of a parlour trick. But the very act of trying to enunciate it conceals it. And that is exactly the trick.
In fact, the very act of trying to grasp it, conceals it. Paradoxically, the revelation of multitudiousness of life that emerges from static stillness is identical with the discovery of the stillness, the emptiness.
It is inbuilt in this thing that we call existence. It has been there always, it will always be, there is no escape from it, neither is there any entry into it. It is static, self-sustaining, reposing on itself, never ending conundrum that is pure bliss and yet terror too.
Each and everything is just a variation of the other, and if you look closer, the variation is kind of optical illusion. I am a kaleidoscope that is somehow peeking inside itself.
There is a tinge of fear when you open up to the possibility of total solipsism, that everything is a simulation brought forward by yourself starting from some immemorial epoch and which goes on forever with no possibility of ending - because by definition nothing can exist outside the simulation of itself. But you are always overwhelmed by the next successive realization that you are just a small atom in the immense game of self-concealment and self-revelation, and there is no other way how things could possibly be. It's like that. You are everything that is, and yet, you are a but a mote of dust eternally travelling down the corridors of eternal existence.
Indeed, the possibility of anything existing seems impossible. And the probability of that occurring is equal to the impossibility of making anything possible. Yet this thing goes on and on and on. Or so it seems..
Sorry if this does not belong here-- at the time I wrote it, it just flowed from my fingertips. Wonders that she, the great Arylcyclohecylamine goddess keeps showing at me. I try to be more careful....
------------------
Fresh from the works:
I see it - namely, I see how it is possible that a molecule can flip around the page and reveal the cosmic machinery, which is sort of a parlour trick. But the very act of trying to enunciate it conceals it. And that is exactly the trick.
In fact, the very act of trying to grasp it, conceals it. Paradoxically, the revelation of multitudiousness of life that emerges from static stillness is identical with the discovery of the stillness, the emptiness.
It is inbuilt in this thing that we call existence. It has been there always, it will always be, there is no escape from it, neither is there any entry into it. It is static, self-sustaining, reposing on itself, never ending conundrum that is pure bliss and yet terror too.
Each and everything is just a variation of the other, and if you look closer, the variation is kind of optical illusion. I am a kaleidoscope that is somehow peeking inside itself.
There is a tinge of fear when you open up to the possibility of total solipsism, that everything is a simulation brought forward by yourself starting from some immemorial epoch and which goes on forever with no possibility of ending - because by definition nothing can exist outside the simulation of itself. But you are always overwhelmed by the next successive realization that you are just a small atom in the immense game of self-concealment and self-revelation, and there is no other way how things could possibly be. It's like that. You are everything that is, and yet, you are a but a mote of dust eternally travelling down the corridors of eternal existence.
Indeed, the possibility of anything existing seems impossible. And the probability of that occurring is equal to the impossibility of making anything possible. Yet this thing goes on and on and on. Or so it seems..
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vostochnik
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Okay, so, warning/learning time about O-PCE. Although this story has much less to do with O-PCE than with sketchy-ass people.
So, I had one of my acquaintances over. Ten years ago I would have called him a friend. He's been sketched out on shooting up meth for a couple years now, and the social effects are insanely noticeable. He will try to come to your house or apartment, then plant himself until you offer him a bowl or something. When this story takes place, I was not totally aware of this change.
We both did a shot of O-PCE. Different needles, different spoons, of course, etc. We both did about 35mg, which is common for me and extremely strong for him. When he was about to leave, I decided to shoot the moon with O-PCE. I weighed out 58mg on my scale and dumped it in my spoon. The next thing I know, I woke up with water spilled all over my table, my phone missing, my laptop charger missing, 1/4 of my monthly prescribed diazepam missing, the vial of my last 180mg of O-PCE missing, and a lack of memory after that second shot
Yes, he stole my phone. Yes, he stole my laptop charger. Yes, he stole my weekly Valium. He also spilled the water on the table in a grab for the vial of O-PCE. He also accidentally took a video on my phone, about four seconds long, of me sitting in my chair, BREATHING, with my dog in my lap. I just had my eyes closed. He came back later the next day with those items (except for the O-PCE and Valium) and claimed that I begged him to take them. This is after he claimed that I lost consciousness, stopped responding, and stopped breathing. He didn't call emergency services, he just robbed me.
Friends of his say this is a pattern, and they can't tell if he's lost his mind or just wants attention. Whatever it may be, he is completely gone from my life.
I guess the moral of the story is: if you're going to do a heroic dose of O-PCE, do it around someone whom you can trust. And only increase your doses by 5-7mg at a time...
So, I had one of my acquaintances over. Ten years ago I would have called him a friend. He's been sketched out on shooting up meth for a couple years now, and the social effects are insanely noticeable. He will try to come to your house or apartment, then plant himself until you offer him a bowl or something. When this story takes place, I was not totally aware of this change.
We both did a shot of O-PCE. Different needles, different spoons, of course, etc. We both did about 35mg, which is common for me and extremely strong for him. When he was about to leave, I decided to shoot the moon with O-PCE. I weighed out 58mg on my scale and dumped it in my spoon. The next thing I know, I woke up with water spilled all over my table, my phone missing, my laptop charger missing, 1/4 of my monthly prescribed diazepam missing, the vial of my last 180mg of O-PCE missing, and a lack of memory after that second shot
Yes, he stole my phone. Yes, he stole my laptop charger. Yes, he stole my weekly Valium. He also spilled the water on the table in a grab for the vial of O-PCE. He also accidentally took a video on my phone, about four seconds long, of me sitting in my chair, BREATHING, with my dog in my lap. I just had my eyes closed. He came back later the next day with those items (except for the O-PCE and Valium) and claimed that I begged him to take them. This is after he claimed that I lost consciousness, stopped responding, and stopped breathing. He didn't call emergency services, he just robbed me.
Friends of his say this is a pattern, and they can't tell if he's lost his mind or just wants attention. Whatever it may be, he is completely gone from my life.
I guess the moral of the story is: if you're going to do a heroic dose of O-PCE, do it around someone whom you can trust. And only increase your doses by 5-7mg at a time...
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I've heard stories of people getting into K-holes in raves, then waking up find that everything is gone..
So sad.
And one more thing - concerning "heroic dose", that has no place when it comes to dissociatives.
Terence McKenna coined that term long time ago to distinguish those who were serious about psychedelics and those
who were looking for distraction.. But I think the term has fallen into misuse.
With ACHs, less is more, sparser is longer...
So sad.
And one more thing - concerning "heroic dose", that has no place when it comes to dissociatives.
Terence McKenna coined that term long time ago to distinguish those who were serious about psychedelics and those
who were looking for distraction.. But I think the term has fallen into misuse.
With ACHs, less is more, sparser is longer...
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MSK
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Fuck what kind of raves do you attend? I always end holing on the floor 99% of the times when I go to a rave, but the people that also attend it care about me even without knowing me. Peace, love, unity and respect are still valid values in the raves I attend. I supose it's a totally different thing in mainstream ones.
Snorting 10 mg of this substance resulted in annoying mania bordering on mild psychotic symptoms. The following day there was still a lot of energy left, but not the good kind.
Could this be the roa? Should I give this another try orally or stay away from O-PCE altogether?
For reference; I also experience some mania on MXE, but in a way more limited and positive form. 3-MeO-PCE has some similar properties like O-PCE, but is a bit more mellow.
Could this be the roa? Should I give this another try orally or stay away from O-PCE altogether?
For reference; I also experience some mania on MXE, but in a way more limited and positive form. 3-MeO-PCE has some similar properties like O-PCE, but is a bit more mellow.
Here's my approach, I'm not sure if I can recommend it to anyone, but it is what I do these days.
Decide a smallish dosage, according to tolerance. Aim just for feeling something. Then repeat the dose, say after hour, and continue like this...
Eventually you'll start to experience non-ordinary dimensions, while still capable of functioning in "real" world. At this threshold, I stop and perhaps
smoke a joint, which changes it to a kind of trip which goes very deep, while not being overwhelming. I usually receive "revelations" of a sort, which
are like variations on the theme of non-duality.
Then next day, I take my small dosage again, but I increase the dosing intervals, and decrease a little the dose. I muse on my most recent revelations,
digest them, try to integrate them. When that is done, I revert back to step A, as described above, and get new "revelations".
And so on until I run out of O-PCE (my consumption is about 300mg per week now). Then I spend some time without, just to acclimatize myself to the
"ordinary consensus reality" and do some self-criticism also.. Then, I put an order for more....
Decide a smallish dosage, according to tolerance. Aim just for feeling something. Then repeat the dose, say after hour, and continue like this...
Eventually you'll start to experience non-ordinary dimensions, while still capable of functioning in "real" world. At this threshold, I stop and perhaps
smoke a joint, which changes it to a kind of trip which goes very deep, while not being overwhelming. I usually receive "revelations" of a sort, which
are like variations on the theme of non-duality.
Then next day, I take my small dosage again, but I increase the dosing intervals, and decrease a little the dose. I muse on my most recent revelations,
digest them, try to integrate them. When that is done, I revert back to step A, as described above, and get new "revelations".
And so on until I run out of O-PCE (my consumption is about 300mg per week now). Then I spend some time without, just to acclimatize myself to the
"ordinary consensus reality" and do some self-criticism also.. Then, I put an order for more....
Hexagon Sun
Bluelighter
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I like this approach, even if to my standards 300mgs a week is a bit too much (as I would love to have a full week to devote to that disso experiemtns), I would really like to know if some of this revelations are disclosurable
It really does not eat away that much from my other time. Doing household chores is really neat on ACHs
I have tried to calibrate it so I can function normally at any time. Once . so far only once - I miscalculated. I had to locate a bed and near-holed for some time. The lady of the house wondered a bit about such sudden nap (Oh well, maybe she guessed) On weekend nights I also took some extra doses with MJ and meditated.
I wrote some, I think it's on a previous page.
Also I get a lot of "crazy" stuff. I used to think that was manic junk, but now I think
they have symbolic personal messages..
Axed
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I had a very negative experience on this a few days ago at a festival.
Throughout the day I was already ingesting a variety of substances - about 5 hits of LSD, a little bit of coke, ketamine, DCK, weed of course, and a few hits of opium.
I went off by myself to the second to last show of the night. At this point I came down a lot from the acid and was mostly feeling the DCK. I thought this would be a good time to take the 2-oxo-pce capsule I had been holding on to. This would be my second time taking it - the first time was at home a few months ago. At that time I first tried an oral dose of around 10-12mg, and when I didn't feel much I snorted a bit more (can't remember exactly how much). The effects were not overwhelming at all and were reminiscent of MXE (one of my all time fav substances).
So I took the capsule, which I think had around 15mg in it, and started feeling it about 2/3 of the way through the show. It felt good at first. I was already really vibing to the set, and feeling a little bit heavier and looser only made dancing more fun. When the set ended I felt a bit disoriented, but mostly sad that it ended. I then walked back to my friends who were at the main stage, not at all a far walk. However the walk felt very long and I felt increasingly more heavy. I focused on getting to my friends and to a place to sit.
Once I sat down it felt like I would not be able to get up. I wanted to talk to my friends and tried to participate in conversation, but it seemed that my body wanted me to close my eyes and drift away. I was worried that I was worrying my friends by not acting like my usual self. My vision became blurry and at some point while sitting there I thought to myself, "this is what dying must feel like". I think my vision being affected is what worried me the most. All I could think about was getting back to the campsite and laying down, although the prospect of walking all the way back was daunting.
When I did close my eyes it was basically just blackness, so if this was a hole, it was not a very interesting one. At some point during this last set I felt very nauseous. I managed to get up, walk a distance from my friends and dry heave. I guess I had not been drinking or eating enough all day to actually throw up. This did make me feel a bit better though, and I was able to talk to my friends more easily. However a couple of times I thought I was coming down, just to fall back into the overwhelming effects. It didn't even feel much like dissociation and it did not feel MXE-like at all.
My friend helped me walk back to our campsite and I almost immediately excused myself to my tent. Even though I was finally comfortable, alone, and lying down, the effects were still not particularly fun (as a hole on another dissociative would be). Mercifully I was able to drift off to sleep, which was nice because usually I cannot sleep without benzos if I've taken LSD that day.
The next day I felt fine, although when I smoked later on I felt a hint of the heaviness return. Although maybe that was from getting minimal sleep throughout the course of the weekend
Maybe it interacted negatively with one or more of the other drugs I put in my body that day? I'm normally very good at handling high doses of substances, so the effects really alarmed me at the time. However I do plan on continuing to experiment with this. But maybe I'll save it for fun times at home.
Throughout the day I was already ingesting a variety of substances - about 5 hits of LSD, a little bit of coke, ketamine, DCK, weed of course, and a few hits of opium.
I went off by myself to the second to last show of the night. At this point I came down a lot from the acid and was mostly feeling the DCK. I thought this would be a good time to take the 2-oxo-pce capsule I had been holding on to. This would be my second time taking it - the first time was at home a few months ago. At that time I first tried an oral dose of around 10-12mg, and when I didn't feel much I snorted a bit more (can't remember exactly how much). The effects were not overwhelming at all and were reminiscent of MXE (one of my all time fav substances).
So I took the capsule, which I think had around 15mg in it, and started feeling it about 2/3 of the way through the show. It felt good at first. I was already really vibing to the set, and feeling a little bit heavier and looser only made dancing more fun. When the set ended I felt a bit disoriented, but mostly sad that it ended. I then walked back to my friends who were at the main stage, not at all a far walk. However the walk felt very long and I felt increasingly more heavy. I focused on getting to my friends and to a place to sit.
Once I sat down it felt like I would not be able to get up. I wanted to talk to my friends and tried to participate in conversation, but it seemed that my body wanted me to close my eyes and drift away. I was worried that I was worrying my friends by not acting like my usual self. My vision became blurry and at some point while sitting there I thought to myself, "this is what dying must feel like". I think my vision being affected is what worried me the most. All I could think about was getting back to the campsite and laying down, although the prospect of walking all the way back was daunting.
When I did close my eyes it was basically just blackness, so if this was a hole, it was not a very interesting one. At some point during this last set I felt very nauseous. I managed to get up, walk a distance from my friends and dry heave. I guess I had not been drinking or eating enough all day to actually throw up. This did make me feel a bit better though, and I was able to talk to my friends more easily. However a couple of times I thought I was coming down, just to fall back into the overwhelming effects. It didn't even feel much like dissociation and it did not feel MXE-like at all.
My friend helped me walk back to our campsite and I almost immediately excused myself to my tent. Even though I was finally comfortable, alone, and lying down, the effects were still not particularly fun (as a hole on another dissociative would be). Mercifully I was able to drift off to sleep, which was nice because usually I cannot sleep without benzos if I've taken LSD that day.
The next day I felt fine, although when I smoked later on I felt a hint of the heaviness return. Although maybe that was from getting minimal sleep throughout the course of the weekend
Maybe it interacted negatively with one or more of the other drugs I put in my body that day? I'm normally very good at handling high doses of substances, so the effects really alarmed me at the time. However I do plan on continuing to experiment with this. But maybe I'll save it for fun times at home.