☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy DOC Thread - Third opinion

[InterestingFACT]

I don't think DOC causes full agonism though either, or does it? I thought the reason that NBOMes were developed for (actual, legitimate) research purposes was because of their full agonism properties, which are not typically found. Or is it just because they're super selective?

At least according to the paper I linked earlier, DOC (and most phenethylamines) is a full agonist at the inositol triphosphate pathway but a partial agonist at the arachidonic acid pathway of 5ht2a. What this means, exactly, is anyone's guess. David Nichols had a theory that the difference in activation of these two pathways explained the disparity between psychedelic and non-psychedelic 5ht2a agonists, but that theory has been largely discredited.

I believe nbomes are full agonists at both pathways, and I believe that it's the arachidonic acid pathway which is most likely to lead to dangerous physiological effects. So it makes sense that DOC has a better safety profile. That being said, DOC is, to my knowledge, a higher affinity partial agonist at the arachidonic acid pathway than LSD or psilocin.

As for the nbomes. I think Nichols created them in an attempt to explore the SAR of the 5ht2a receptor pharmacophor. I'm not sure they really had a "purpose," per say. But I very well might be wrong about all that.

 

[Bigsk15]

I finally found the right thread! I got a few blotters of DOC but I don't know the dosage. I've only tripped once before, but it was with 25b. How much more preparation do you think I'd need for this?

 

[JBrandon]

DOC is a relatively stable and functional experience, IME it doesn't have the same potential to suddenly go sideways that things like psilocin do.

The real risk with DOC is taking too large of a dose because then you're in for a long ride that may be quite rocky.

If you don't know the dose of your blotter, you probably also can't be sure that it's actually DOC. So I say cut a blotter in half and take that, see how it goes. Then on a different date you can take a full one without the anxiety of wondering what you're in for.

 

[SWIMS cousin]

Found myself in a really good mindset today just dosed a 5mg blotter. Buccal for half an hour then i swallowed that b****!? first time taking DOC. Wish me luck lol

 

[yepyepwoah]

That lasted for maybe a half hour before settling down. Then I furiously masturbated for a few hours.

Lol, it happens to the best of us every now and again...

come to think of it, I had a tab of "acid" in 2005 (or 2006, I forget), that almost certainly wasn't acid. I remember taking it at 6am after drinking all night, watching a movie, passing out. I woke up and smoked, and went to work at proably 3 or 4pm tripping like a m-f. Perhaps I have had DOC after all...

 

[Xorkoth]

Found myself in a really good mindset today just dosed a 5mg blotter. Buccal for half an hour then i swallowed that b****!�� first time taking DOC. Wish me luck lol

How did that go? 5mg is a pretty hefty dose, I've actually never taken that much. Of course blotter dosages can be inaccurate... I've come across DOC blotters that were much weaker than the 2mg advertised.

DOC is a relatively stable and functional experience, IME it doesn't have the same potential to suddenly go sideways that things like psilocin do.

Yeah, DOC is one of the least anxiogenic psychedelics I've ever done, though the come-up can be weird sometimes if you don't channel the energy. My social skills are intact with DOC too. It really doesn't throw me off balance much at all, nor does it interfere with my ability to think quickly or rationally.

Maybe at 5mg it would though

 

[Delsyd]

Can 5mg fit on blotter. The most common DOC blotters I've come across are 1.5-2mg

 

[SWIMS cousin]

The experience was actually very underwhelming..i didnt test it so im guessing it wasn't doc. I did take 25i a week before so maybe a little cross tolerance? And the blotter was alot bigger than the blotters of L i have.. But again underwhelming.. maybe it was a lower dose than i was told or not doc at all..it sure didnt taste or feel like anything ive had before. it was a very mellow and pretty enjoyable experience, i actually fell asleep around the 8hour mark..im going to try a different vendor and maybe buy a test

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

im going to try a different vendor

Show caution with the clear-net. The American and Chinese governments frequently cooperate in research chemical investigations. Lots of seizing and busting for mail order stuff in recent years. They both want to fight wars on drugs. Sadly the vulnerable and naive often become the victim of these government agencies.

Quasi-legal entrapment is often used. The victims manipulated by the government usually are young or haven't mastered adult life skills yet. Older more experienced people often (though not indefinitely) avoid these issues.

http://www.imperialvalleynews.com/i...ier-pleads-guilty-in-synthetic-drug-case.html

 

[Xorkoth]

A remind not to discuss sources, even vaguely, or other matters related to sourcing.

 

[psykedenlitenment]

Hey all. This Saturday I'm planning on going for a DOC combo. I need a little help deciding how the timing will go in. I would like to be peaking around 4 in the afternoon. I've been exploring the more middle sized doses with DOC, currently at around 3mgs +/- a couple points. Maybe I'll go down to 2 mgs for the experience as I know it has less chance of being excessive with an additive.

Now to the combo. I am trying to decide between al-lad and 4-x-met/4-ho-mipt at around 17-20 mgs. I'm thinking that would put the dosing of DOC around 10 am and the 4-sub-x at around one or two o'clock? Thanks for your input

 

[Xorkoth]

I can see either of those being nice with DOC, but something tells me the 4-sub-Ts would distinguish themselves more against the DOC trip. I'd take the tryptamine probably 4 hours in, so your timing of 10 for DOC and 2 for the tryptamine sounds good. I've actually never tried combining DOC with a tryptamine, so let us know how it goes. I combined 2C-B with DOC once and I felt the 2C-B didn't change it much, but they're both phenethylamines and DOC is a stronger phenethylamine than 2C-B.

 

[RUSHDAFUNK]

I can see either of those being nice with DOC, but something tells me the 4-sub-Ts would distinguish themselves more against the DOC trip. I'd take the tryptamine probably 4 hours in, so your timing of 10 for DOC and 2 for the tryptamine sounds good. I've actually never tried combining DOC with a tryptamine, so let us know how it goes. I combined 2C-B with DOC once and I felt the 2C-B didn't change it much, but they're both phenethylamines and DOC is a stronger phenethylamine than 2C-B.

I have done this combo and the tryptamine's don't really go well with a DOC trip. The length difference being just one problem. Instead of combining it seems just to take over the DOC for a short period. On the other hand I have taken a Trypt at the tail end of a DOC trips and it helps smooth out and relax the comedown. Actually helps me fall to sleep for some reason.

 

[psykedenlitenment]

I just read a TR on erowid by karcinogenious with DOI and 4-@-dmt. Towards the end of the report, he eludes that every combohe'sdone with DOx and 4-sub-Ts, he gets to the majickal, mythical, mystical ++++. This report and RUSHDAFUNKs account are the only two reliable accounts for effects that I can find. Karcinogenious' doses were 1.5 mgs DOI and 25 mgs 4-aco-dmt, seemingly spaced around 1.5-2 hours. Maybe I'll end up with al-lad at two tabs (would be my highest lysergamine (-amide??) dosing, only two experiences at one tab each with Lucy and a single one tab al-lad experience), and test cross tolerance with DOC on Sunday. Shelving this idea for possibly a bit longer as RDF hit on my main concern, being the massive chasm of time that exists between durations. Either way, the whole weekend is mine and I will follow up with results.

 

[psykedenlitenment]

So I dosed 2 +/- mgs DOC at 10:30 in the AM. Around 2 o'clock I was getting antsy and hit up 14 mgs 4-aco-met because I wanted a little more visually without becoming physically heavy. I had a nice campfire rolling and when the wind would gust the heat over me, it felt shamazing. I had quite a bit of insights and every revelation manifested itself in my minds eye as a sunflower or that number sequence for perfect spirals. It was really sublime. I'm thinking there's greater potential in combos than single substances. I would do it again, definitely, but I would go with more DOC.

 

[psilocybin-dream]

Man I must really be crazy, my sweet spot with DOC is about 9mg, at which point I'm tripping VERY hard, but still able to maintain control & awareness of my surroundings. At doses of 5mg I'm definitely tripping but it isn't as intense as I want it to be...at 9mg it kicks in about as fast as LSD does for me, buzz within 20 minutes, 40 minutes or even less & I'm fully tripping. 5mg the come-up period is more typical however. The duration isn't too much longer than LSD for me, the peak certainly isn't, but the whole trip lasts like 14-16 hours, definitely has after effects longer than any other psychedelic though (which actually doesn't stop me from sleeping strangely enough, if only because I always smoke a lot of pot on psychedelic comedowns), I always wake up the next morning & still have mild visuals throughout the day, feel more spaced out than I do the day after any other psych as well.

DOC is definitely among my favorite psychedelics, I'd rate it just as highly as the classics even! The headspace is very deep & analytical, has a really special way of tying things together over it's long duration, lots of recurring themes that I don't necessarily see the connections between until I start coming down. Also the most "mind-fucking" phenethylamine I've done, yet as clear-headed as can be at the same time! Really a perfect drug for me, which isn't surprising considering after various psychedelics my favorite drugs are amphetamines.

 

[Xorkoth]

Wow, that's an intense dose, though I have heard of others doing it too. Do you take abnormally high doses of other psychedelics too? And trip often?

I have taken DOC at 4.2mg, early on when 3mg still made me trip hard (it still sometimes does). At that dose there was certainly a good bit of mind fuck. Usually I take DOC for the purpose of hiking/camping/being outside, as I enjoy its feeling the most there, and I usually take 3mg for a hike. It's relatively transparent but is a nice, visual, analytical/mental trip that also gives me a lot of energy. I suppose sometime I should try taking more, like 5mg, but I suspect 5mg, even after a ridiculous total amount of tripping and many, many trips on DOC, would be very, very strong for me.

I also rate it among the classics though, it's a truly great chemical. I also agree with you about its tendency to link together common themes throughout the trip. DOC takes a long time to develop and it often starts out a bit scattered for me but it always ties together perfectly.

 

[psilocybin-dream]

I do tend to dose pretty high with all psychedelics, as well psychedelic stimulants I'm especially hardheaded with...the most frequently I'll trip anymore is every couple weeks (not for long periods of time), but usually nowadays a month, sometimes more, between trips. I was tripping way too much (at least once a week at some periods anytime I wasn't working so 3-5 days or nights a week) from like 2 years ago to 1 year ago, since I stopped I actually got a reverse tolerance though, I can experience all effects off doses that would have just given me a body high & some euphoria when I was first eating psychs. I also love being really fried & am really good at keeping my head together in extreme psychedelic experiences, so that plays a part in my dosages. I agree that DOC is definitely great for being outside! I love spending the first few hours of a DOC out exploring the more forested areas near my house with some music to accompany me (Boards of Canada's full albums fit best), in the future I'd love to go to art museums & do other activities like that while on it.

 

[Xorkoth]

Wow, weird, I went through 2/3 years of tripping 3-5 times a week too, but it was in 2006-2008. I experienced a MASSIVE tolerance that has never gone completely away. Reverse tolerance is the opposite of what I got from that. I still require abnormally large dosages of most things now (with some exceptions, such as DMT where it hits me hard at low dosages), but the tolerance has gone down significantly.

DOC is perfect for doing activities on it because it doesn't inhibit your coordination, functioning, or communication, and doesn't produce social anxiety or anything.

 

[Drew.]

After four of my own personal trials a friend has requested to contribute and take a journey with me to visit the big D.
I'm very excited and after my success with my first dose (2.555mg or 2.7, can't go check my notes) I am posiTive the person will try something in that range.
Then again, If he is sensitive to substances, perhaps he should try 1.75? 2?
Any ideas on what everyone dosed for their first time?