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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy DOC Thread - Third opinion

Pontius pilot - I think I've seen somewhere that the solubility of DOC in 95% EtOH has been successfully tested up to 33mg/ml, with the experimenter speculating the ratio could be pushed even further. Again, if I recall correctly.

I'm wondering how much you trust your source, because the only class of substances that I've had the issue you describe of flakey particulate floaters was with the NBOMe class. Not trying to do substance ID or anything, however, I've noticed this phenomena only occurring with the NBOMe class. Maybe reagent/test to confirm what you have before proceeding? Even just sticking to purely oral ingestion of your solution would be a good step, I think, in harm reduction until you can confirm you do indeed have DOC.

Have fun and explore safely!
 
I recently obtained 500 mg Doc and put it all in 750 ml of ethanol(everclear) I've given it to my friends and they say at 3.5ml they don't have any visuals.. which is conspicuous to me so do you guys think they are lying? or the potency isn't right? i got from a trusted vendor...
 
could somebody explain DOCs mechanism of action. you know, how the drug works ect. this could help me make a better decision.
 
DOC is certainly safer than NBOMes, I would say by a lot. DOC does not seem dangerous to me at all at regular dosages. People have died from it but if I recall it was only due to intense overdoses, not anything close to recreational dosages.
 
I know of folks taking up the 10 mg's... I stopped at 4mg.. that is plenty..
 
Yeah 4mg is very strong. I'm probably going to take 2.5 to 3mg tomorrow morning and go hiking all day. :)
 
Definitely gonna get me some DOC soon I think...it's looking more appealing every time I see you fuckers mention it :p
 
4mg is probably the upper limit to what i would take of DOC these days... Things get quite spooky at 5-6mg.. downright scary and dangerously psychotic and if your not able to be in the right setting for 20 hours things can get a bit bad. I know several people who ended up in the hospital freaking out when they took too much.
 
InterestingFACT said:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24142203/

DOC is a selective 5ht2a/b/c agonist with a higher intrinsic activity than the "classic" psychedelics, but a lower intrinsic activity than the nbomes.
Click to expand...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945162/table/T2/

i have been considering my options. my thinking was DOC is safer than NBOMes because of the lower intrinsic activity. then i looked at the paper InterestingFACT linked. DOC does have lower intrinsic activity at 5ht2a than some NBOMe drugs. LSD and DMT both have higher intrinsic activity than NBOMes at multiple receptors. LSD is actually a super agonist at 5HT1a. from this evidence my first thought of full agonist (drugs with high intrinsic activity) being less safe than partial agonist appears wrong.

each of the historically safer drugs (DMT, LSD, and psilocybin) is non-selective and binds strongly with multiple serotonin receptor sub groups. the commonality between all of the NBOMes is that they bind selectively to 5HT2 receptors. i think the danger arises from the hyper selectivity. perhaps the other receptors the classic psychedelics bind with mediate the negative potential of 5HT2 subgroup activation. this is bad news with regard to DOC. i think that DOC has the same potential dangers as NBOMes. this is supported with the multiple confirmed fatalities from DOC. many people consumed NBOMes at high doses without complications. we don't know why certain people have fatal reactions. DOC is much less common than NBOMe drugs and i infer this is the reason fewer journals have reported DOC fatalities.
 
The other night I took 25D nbome it was a good trip but on the come down out of nowhere a fierce sharp pain smacked me in the left area of the chest and a dull ache and bubbling feeling followed for quite awhile which was unsettling. Ive enjoyed the nbomes for quite awhile but after reading awhile i came across somethi g that said they were HERG channel blockers which can lead to qt syndrome and in rare cases sudden death.. Is it true they fall in this catagory? Lol not to turn this into a nbome thread..anyways I also have 1 blotter of DOC and was wondering if it could have the same complications? Im not trying to repeat the other night by putting the same amount of stress onmy body. Im done with the nbome series for sure.
 
Yes the NBOMes are known to cause sudden death sometimes, there have been a lot of deaths from them, far more than from any other psychedelic in such a short time. They're really very dangerous. Someone even died from 2 blotters of 25i (which seems the most dangerous of them).

DOC doesn't have the same risk.

greengummybear said:
each of the historically safer drugs (DMT, LSD, and psilocybin) is non-selective and binds strongly with multiple serotonin receptor sub groups. the commonality between all of the NBOMes is that they bind selectively to 5HT2 receptors. i think the danger arises from the hyper selectivity. perhaps the other receptors the classic psychedelics bind with mediate the negative potential of 5HT2 subgroup activation. this is bad news with regard to DOC. i think that DOC has the same potential dangers as NBOMes. this is supported with the multiple confirmed fatalities from DOC. many people consumed NBOMes at high doses without complications. we don't know why certain people have fatal reactions. DOC is much less common than NBOMe drugs and i infer this is the reason fewer journals have reported DOC fatalities.
Click to expand...

But DOC has been around a lot longer and was commonly sold as LSD before the NBOMes existed. Yes there have been deaths reported but as far as I am aware, not nearly as many as with NBOMes. And as far as I know, there have been no deaths from reasonable recreational doses, unlike NBOMes.

I've taken a lot of DOC, probably more than any other psychedelic, and it's never once felt sketchy to me. Of course I stick to 3-4mg at most.
 
I've taken improperly weighed overdoses of both 25i and DOC and I can certainly say that DOC felt wayyy safer, if that makes you feel any better about trying it.

I think DOC and probably other DOx are totally worthwhile psychedelics to try once in a blue moon while the NBOMes are not worth the risk or side effects.

also DOC is pretty much like 30 times less potent than 25i, which alone makes it way safer. I never felt like I was close to a seizure on DOC. while with 25i I really feel like I almost cheated death when I accidentally took too much.

first time I took DOC I thought the body high was better than MDMA
 
The first time I took DOC, I was smacked in the face with the most extreme euphoria - I remember thinking it was better than MDMA, meth, or blow. That lasted for maybe a half hour before settling down. Then I furiously masturbated for a few hours.
 
Haha. :) For me the DOC euphoria happens throughout usually but the peak contains emotions besides euphoria... then when the plateau hits I am absolutely immersed in a zen-like euphoria that I prefer to MDMA, etc. It's a calm, sober type of euphoria, where everything feels perfect and my mind feels like it's working perfectly. Pretty much the ideal state of mind.

I have actually taken DOC a lot, far more than once in a blue moon. For a couple of years I was taking it very frequently, multiple times a week. I've even taken it 4 days in a row - I'm not proud of this but the only negatives I experienced were increased vasoconstriction as the days went on and fatigue for a few days afterwards. I've never experienced anything alarming from DOC nor has it ever felt unhealthy. I've used it probably more than any other psychedelic, for the past 9 years.
 
Xorkoth said:
Haha. :) For me the DOC euphoria happens throughout usually but the peak contains emotions besides euphoria... then when the plateau hits I am absolutely immersed in a zen-like euphoria that I prefer to MDMA, etc. It's a calm, sober type of euphoria, where everything feels perfect and my mind feels like it's working perfectly. Pretty much the ideal state of mind.

I have actually taken DOC a lot, far more than once in a blue moon. For a couple of years I was taking it very frequently, multiple times a week. I've even taken it 4 days in a row - I'm not proud of this but the only negatives I experienced were increased vasoconstriction as the days went on and fatigue for a few days afterwards. I've never experienced anything alarming from DOC nor has it ever felt unhealthy. I've used it probably more than any other psychedelic, for the past 9 years.
Click to expand...

Comforting words ! :)

I recently had my fourth experience with +/- 2.67mg. Next time will be 3mg. Perfect-feel chemical indeed.
 
greengummybear said:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945162/table/T2/

i have been considering my options. my thinking was DOC is safer than NBOMes because of the lower intrinsic activity. then i looked at the paper InterestingFACT linked. DOC does have lower intrinsic activity at 5ht2a than some NBOMe drugs. LSD and DMT both have higher intrinsic activity than NBOMes at multiple receptors. LSD is actually a super agonist at 5HT1a. from this evidence my first thought of full agonist (drugs with high intrinsic activity) being less safe than partial agonist appears wrong.

each of the historically safer drugs (DMT, LSD, and psilocybin) is non-selective and binds strongly with multiple serotonin receptor sub groups. the commonality between all of the NBOMes is that they bind selectively to 5HT2 receptors. i think the danger arises from the hyper selectivity. perhaps the other receptors the classic psychedelics bind with mediate the negative potential of 5HT2 subgroup activation. this is bad news with regard to DOC. i think that DOC has the same potential dangers as NBOMes. this is supported with the multiple confirmed fatalities from DOC. many people consumed NBOMes at high doses without complications. we don't know why certain people have fatal reactions. DOC is much less common than NBOMe drugs and i infer this is the reason fewer journals have reported DOC fatalities.
Click to expand...
Sorry I didn't see this until now.

Different serotonin receptors have different effects. 5ht2a is largely responsible for the psychedelic effects of hallucinogens, but also is responsible for the head twitch response in rats--it's essentially a pro-convulsant. In fact many muscle relaxants such as cyclobenzaprine are 5ht2a antagonists.

This is probably why 5ht2a agonists cause deep tissue vasoconstriction--probably a big factor in the risk of high potency psychedelics. Coronary artery vasospasm causes your heart to beat faster while decreasing ejection fraction, resulting in decreased oxygen circulation. In addition to all the usual dangers associated with hypoxia, this can cause blood acidification. It just so happens that metabolic acidosis is a mechanism for at least some of the fatalities associated with DOx, NBOMe, etc. of course there's a lot that we really don't know about these compounds, we don't precisely know how they kill or why. But another risk factor in the case of NBOMes is their incredibly variable absorption. it could be that the inconsistency of a "toxic dose" for nbomes has more to do with this than anything else.

Meanwhile 5ht1a receptor activation actually tends to counter the vasoconstrictor effects of 5ht2a agonism, if my memory serves correctly. It's pretty likely that LSDs diverse pharmacological profile actually served to improve its safety for this reason. But I think the biggest factor is likely to be that it doesn't possess full agonism for 5ht2a.
 
I don't think DOC causes full agonism though either, or does it? I thought the reason that NBOMes were developed for (actual, legitimate) research purposes was because of their full agonism properties, which are not typically found. Or is it just because they're super selective?
 
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