[NBOMe Subthread] Long-term Side-effects & Addiction

[sean107]

25I-NBOMe addiction/health problems.

Welcome to the Long-term Side-effects subthread for NBOMe compounds and other N-benzyl PEAs

Possible chronic tolerance (subthread here) to NBOMe compounds and other psychedelics may develop as an effect of unmoderated use of these compounds, also addiction could be an issue. We are not really sure yet because these developments are new to us. If you have information on symptoms that you developed from using NBOMe-type compounds a lot, please share them here. Also if there are other threads about such matters we would like to know about it so that we can gather it here. It is best for us to share these things here and learn about them, so that everyone can make an informed decision to use these drugs or abstain from them.

[original post:]

Bear with me as I try and type this out, as sensible as possible. In the past 2 months or so I have been consuming vast amounts of 25i-nbome. They come on blotters with an unknown dosage per unit, but I've probably consumed close to 30 or so tabs. I'm finding them very hard to quit and am experiencing drug-induced psychosis, depression, extreme social anxiety etc. I previously was addicted to amphetamines for 2 years, after trying 25i I quit and have only done 25i, I find it very addictive. I also cannot think clearly what so ever, just very blank minded in general. So I was wondering if anyone has any experience with stuff like this, and how to quit and get better? I also experience withdraws.

 

[Solipsis]

Man, sorry to hear that

These kinds of compounds (NBOMe's) are not known to cause physical dependence, are you sure that the withdrawal you experienced was not still from the amphetamines, when the 25I-NBOMe couldn't cover it up anymore, or that they were side-effects of the experience instead of a discontinuation syndrome?

What were the symptoms of what you refer to as withdrawals?

Also considering tolerance builds up quickly and can last for 1-2 weeks with NBOMe compounds, how often did you try to trip, you increased the dose to combat tolerance I assume?

What is it about 25I-NBOMe that compells you most to engage in compulsive abuse of the drug?

 

[sean107]

The withdrawal symptoms are burning hit itchy skin/rashes, vommiting, body aches etc. I was pretty much tripping everyday for a week or so, started using it bucally, then nasal, then pugging it. I'd say my attraction to it was the erotic feel it has.

 

[bloodshed344]

You're not having physical dependence. 25I with massive tolerance (if you did as much as you say your psychedelic tolerance is fucked and you need to stay away from all psychedelics and especially NBOME for 3+ months. Quit today. 25I with tolerance feels like really nice amphetamine that's barely trippy, it's a really fun thing to eyeball and snort! (when your tolerance is so massive tht this isn't dangerous, which it is dangerous so dont do this)

Whether its powder or blotters you can rack up massive tolerance by using 25I or any other NBOME like amphetamine, which it feels ALOT like when you have tolerance. Stop going for that rush, buy you a safe non-psychedelic stimulant off the internet and LET YOUR SEROTONIN RECEPTORS HEAL.

You have no addiction besides a want for speed, don't fool yourself. 25I is a psychedelic, and it only feels like speed once you've started abusing the fuck out of your receptors. If you don't lighten up, and stay away from the NBOME for at least a few months (and even once you go back onlly do it at MOST once permonth) you're fucked.

If you don't have the willpower for all of this, then hooray for being another idiot with a psychedelic that is much too powerful for them to understand, handlee, or consume properly. Don't take offense to this, if you don't follow my exact advice anad other intelligent people you WILL fuck yourself over and hate yourself for it, like what is already happening.

Cheers, take that break like I said, and then get back to happy tripping. If you keep abusing your receptors, psychedelics might not ever work the same AGAIN and your brain will be fucked like you said.

Just remember there's no addiction, it's all in you and NBOMEs dont cause any form of physical addiction. Merely mentioning NBOMEs causing physical dependency makes you (and me) sound stupid, but I guess you are misinformed.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[rollies]

You cant be addicted to 25i.

If you are as worried as you say you are... you would have experienced it in a psychedelic trip. I believe bloodshed344 has pinned this down perfectly.

You aren't even describing it as if it was a psychedelic. If you were feeling psychedelic effects from it, you would have a LOT more to say about the situation because your trips would be somewhat relevant. :/

 

[justinsayno]

Stop going for that rush, buy you a safe non-psychedelic stimulant off the internet and LET YOUR SEROTONIN RECEPTORS HEAL.

dear op

i can't comment on nbomes as i havent tried them, but just thought i'd chime in to point out that IMO there are no 'safe' stims on the internet, all the UK legal ones are jittery, tend to have nasty come downs, anxiety and leave the heart feeling over worked. The internet is good MDMA type things and psychs but as far as i know there isnt anything that could replace or compete with amphetamine.

Even if a good stim was available would it help you at this point ? seeing as you clearly like them more than you should ;-]

Ive had problems with speed myself, if you've been hard at it for 2 years it might take months to get over it....
I hit it hard for nearly 3 years, when a few key busts left my area dry i slept for 18 hours a day for weeks, it then took months for my energy levels and concentration to recover

even 6 months of 'sensible', functional [ab]use has left me with cravings that made me feel hopless, and a little weepy...

the physical symptoms you've mentioned dont sound like amphet withdrawl, but [ i think someone has already said this ] maybe the nbome was just masking the cravings and depression caused by all the speed and now you've done too much and gone and fucked yaself up =-]

i think you've realised you're not helping yourself, and as others have already stated the only thing you can do at this point is stop =-]

good luck....hope you get well soon

ps - some people are built for speed, it fits thier minds like a glove.
these are the people that should never take it....maybe you're one of them....

 

[Cface]

Quit consuming 25i.

Go get some valium or something and chill out.

 

[Transform]

Please stop saying it's not possible to be addicted to 25I - clearly it is and pretending it's not is not useful even if true.

It is entirely possible that the extreme downregulation due to 25I use could result in physical withdrawal symptoms - there is no precedent to the contrary.

 

[bloodshed344]

Please stop saying it's not possible to be addicted to 25I - clearly it is and pretending it's not is not useful even if true.

It is entirely possible that the extreme downregulation due to 25I use could result in physical withdrawal symptoms - there is no precedent to the contrary.

I covered this topic quite well in my post and there would be no physical addiction greater than that of amphetamine... which doesn't count.

 

[RobotRipping]

no physical dependence maybe (and i think that's arguable as well) but there's always the possibility for addiction. In the sense it is typically used, addiction is using a drug/doing something despite it having a negative affect(s) on your life. You can be addicted to eating cheeseburgers or whatever.

however in OP's case, yeah all PEA psychs give you that hint of a speed buzz with usually plenty of psychedelia. After 2-3 days, you'll only feel the stimulants effects, in essence i think you've traded speed for 25i. And in some people's cases the withdrawals for both are going to be a loss of interest in life, doing things, being tired all the time and things like that. Also there's a possibility of drug induced psychosis. For most people these things don't happen because they stop using the drug after the psychedelic effects are gone due to tolerance. But if used as a stim, 25i can create similar issues IMO as 'dependence' on stimulants, the notable withdrawals usually consisting of feeling overly tired, fatigued, hungry; the opposite effects of the drug itself.

In terms of withdrawals vs. opiates/benzos, it's nothing physically but mentally, there's a whole lot of shit going on. I can't imagine crashing after using 25i for a week. I did 3 days of it once and felt like i was dying afterwards.

My advice is the same as one of the poster's above, stop chasing that rush. You'll fiend for it hard the first few days but it goes away and you'll start to feel normal after a few days or weeks depending on your usage.

as far as health problems go, i have no idea, there's no info out there so you're taking a huge gamble, could be benign like many psychs or could be worse than amphetamine, i don't know but after a few days of tripping i feel pretty awful, so i imagine it's not healthy psychologically at least and that's probably the most important thing to watch out for.

 

[cyberius]

Quit consuming 25i.

Go get some valium or something and chill out.

That is not a good idea at all, he clearly has an addictive personality and this can easily bring him back to addiction.

Stop taking it, you're destroying your brain. NBOMe's have horrible reports about them and many people have died from overdose, they are in no way safe.

I recommend flushing your supply, not getting anymore, and tough it out. The longer you wait before stopping the more damage your going to be causing to your brain, and some of it may become irreversible.

 

[Sippin_LSD]

Stop taking it, you're destroying your brain. NBOMe's have horrible reports about them and many people have died from overdose, they are in no way safe.

They're just as unsafe as any other drug. I've had great experiences with nbome chemicals, and I doubt he's destroying his brain..

Seriously though just chill dude. No need to take a chemical everyday that hasn't even really been researched. Not really the smart thing to do. I don't know how you even find it addictive..

 

[Anon0631]

For fuck sake people, stop giving harmful advice.

Firstly don't trade one substance for another. Particularly not benzos or legal stims. Go seek help. Phone a drug charity or speak to your doctor.

Secondly I doubt any of the people who are assuring you that 25i-NBOMe is not addictive can point to a place where this statement has been made in the peer reviewed literature. It's just a guess. The true answer is that we just don't know how addictive or not it is.

 

[bloodshed344]

It's not physically addictive. If it is then it doesn't happen to everyone with even VERY large amounts. This wouldn't match-up with the characteristics of any other physically addictive drugs I can think of.

Also the only drug you should ever trade one for another is weed, because it is the most minor addiction harm/benefit wise. But the benefit is not enough for many...

 

[bloodshed344]

They're just as unsafe as any other drug. I've had great experiences with nbome chemicals, and I doubt he's destroying his brain..

Seriously though just chill dude. No need to take a chemical everyday that hasn't even really been researched. Not really the smart thing to do. I don't know how you even find it addictive..

First of all, that's not the OP, he didn't even say it was addictive. "I've had great experiences" doesn't really have anything to do with "destroying his brain". Just because you've had those great experiences doesn't mean it doesn't make changes to the brain. Which brings me to my second point, if NBOMEs have the characteristics of all the typical psychedelics, they don't destroy the brain at all, they don't even kill brain cells. They actually build brain cells, in a bad way. Tolerance to psychedelics, especially heavy agonists like the NBOME family, creates more serotonin receptors in your brain. This has many bad effects which I won't list here.

and CYBERIUS,
be careful with you're wording. Although I get what you mean by "destroying your brain", Sippin_LSD doesn't. Just for clarification, receptor downregulation (or is it upregulation? If I got this part, or the part where I said it creates more serotonin receptors in your brain wrong, just correct me. I'm not completely certain I know how the tolerance to serotonin receptors works, or fully what upregulation and downregulation mean in regards to the different types of receptors in the brain) can lead to social problems, dullness in thoughts, depression, anxiety, loss of motivation, general laziness, etc you can see where this is going. I don't know if that last sentence has ever had a study on it, but I can almost assure you this happens, I believe it happens for a similar reason to why MDMA causes these short-term symptoms.

 

[immad]

First of all, that's not the OP, he didn't even say it was addictive. "I've had great experiences" doesn't really have anything to do with "destroying his brain". Just because you've had those great experiences doesn't mean it doesn't make changes to the brain. Which brings me to my second point, if NBOMEs have the characteristics of all the typical psychedelics, they don't destroy the brain at all, they don't even kill brain cells. They actually build brain cells, in a bad way.

Do you have a reference for that?

Tolerance to psychedelics, especially heavy agonists like the NBOME family, creates more serotonin receptors in your brain. This has many bad effects which I won't list here.

It's the other way around, you get desensitization through receptor internalization and maybe also through reduced second messenger activity.

and CYBERIUS,
be careful with you're wording. Although I get what you mean by "destroying your brain", Sippin_LSD doesn't. Just for clarification, receptor downregulation (or is it upregulation? If I got this part, or the part where I said it creates more serotonin receptors in your brain wrong, just correct me. I'm not completely certain I know how the tolerance to serotonin receptors works, or fully what upregulation and downregulation mean in regards to the different types of receptors in the brain) can lead to social problems, dullness in thoughts, depression, anxiety, loss of motivation, general laziness, etc you can see where this is going. I don't know if that last sentence has ever had a study on it, but I can almost assure you this happens, I believe it happens for a similar reason to why MDMA causes these short-term symptoms.

 

[bloodshed344]

Do you have a reference for that?
It's the other way around, you get desensitization through receptor internalization and maybe also through reduced second messenger activity.

Like I said I may have something wrong about that part, instead of asking for a reference to something you know I wasn't sure of, why don't you actually correct my (mostly correct) information. You know I had the information correct for the most part so why don't you correct whatever part is wrong and help me get the point across to help everyone else. So serotonin tolerance isn't caused by increase of serotonin cells? I specifically asked that in my post (in reference to the building brain cells part) so you know I don't have a reference to something I don't even fully know.

I didn't present the information as pure fact anyway, so it's not like I was giving improper HR advice.

Remember the point is only to help, so you need to help me out. Good day.

 

[RobotRipping]

serotonin tolerance isn't the issue here, 25i is not a serotonin releaser and as such is not subject to the same issues as our serotonin releasing friend, MDMA for instance.

tolerance for these substances in particular is not well understood afaik.

 

[bloodshed344]

serotonin tolerance isn't the issue here, 25i is not a serotonin releaser and as such is not subject to the same issues as our serotonin releasing friend, MDMA for instance.

tolerance for these substances in particular is not well understood afaik.

Serotonin tolerance is an issue here. You must not realize that 25I is a full 5ht-2a agonist and 5ht-2a is a subset or serotonin receptors. (5-HO-T aka 5-HT is serotonin)

The problem is not well understood at all but you still need to learn more about the 5-HT receptors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT_receptor

 

[cyberius]

They're just as unsafe as any other drug. I've had great experiences with nbome chemicals, and I doubt he's destroying his brain..

Seriously though just chill dude. No need to take a chemical everyday that hasn't even really been researched. Not really the smart thing to do. I don't know how you even find it addictive..

Any and every drug can be addictive. Also, NBOMe's have gained a notoriety of being dangerous knock-off LSD blotters that can easily be overdosed and deadly. I personally felt really negative effects from 25i, and I've sworn off NBOMe's. I just felt off, like there was something wrong with my brain for 2 weeks after, it is definitely not as safe as LSD or the 2C family.


He seems to have an addictive personality too. If you get addicted to amphetamines, why can't you get addicted to NBOMe too?

serotonin tolerance isn't the issue here, 25i is not a serotonin releaser and as such is not subject to the same issues as our serotonin releasing friend, MDMA for instance.

tolerance for these substances in particular is not well understood afaik.

You'd be surprised on how many drugs utilize serotonin in your brain.