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Serotonin Syndrome aftermath

I took 5HTP before rolling and got SS. Took one pill and vomited when it kicked in, felt like total shit until the MDMA wore off and got some sleep. The comedown was bad but here I am 4 years later. I'm aight.

Not sure how long it lasted but the best thing you can do is occupy your mind and quit trying to analyze whether or not you feel normal. If you don't think about it, you won't go crazy wondering. If you have to take a chill pill like xanax, k-pin, or valium. ..
 
First Bad Comedown said:
I got your message.

From your initial description, it doesn't sound like 'severe' serotonin syndrome - although I will admit that ANY serotonin syndrome can feel VERY severe to the person going through it.
Tachycardia is the first symptom in most cases and the chest pain can be so severe it resembles a heart-attack.
Since you didn't mention an immediate fear of death....I am going to assume the chest pain was moderate.
Mine scared the SHIT out of me. I literally thought my heart stopped then started again, racing faster than sprinting a mile could cause!

In addition to initial tachycardia, 'severe' SS normally involves STRONG stomach and intestinal cramps.
For me the pain began just below my stomach and the swelling was externally visible. I literally thought my liver was going to EXPLODE.
I WISH I had gotten diarrhea - instead my intestines filled with fluid yet remained paralyzed.
To this day, they seem to be recovering muscle tone and rhythm.

Then there is the greatest sign of all - FEVER.
Anything above 101.4 is considered serious.
At 104 brain cells begin dying, and serotonin toxicity is greatly potentiated.
At 108 most humans expire no matter what.

A mild fever, say 99 degrees F, is still a sign of SS.
But we are talking a matter of degree.

If your tachycardia was not absolutely shocking and your body temp didn't go over 100 degrees...
And you managed to shit your guts out...

You are probably going to be MUCH better off than myself.

The fact that you got to the hospital might have prevented more serious complications such as hyponatremia, stroke, renal and liver toxicity...
That is good news for you, but the question remains - what have you done to your brain?

I would begin by asking you how you FEEL?

The first few days after MDMA toxicity, whether it is SS or not, are very surreal.
Many people describe feeling disconnected from their bodies at least at some point.
They feel dizzy, disoriented, and FULL of anxiety.

The tone of your thread seems to lack this anxiety factor.
The panic is so strong in the people I have met that they plead with the BL community for help and visit multiple doctors in a short period of time.

How is your vision?
How is your appetite?
Are you sleeping?

For myself and many others, lack of sleep is the most OBVIOUS symptom.
The first week after my SS, my head was ringing like a tuning fork!
Sleep disturbances are seen in research and have been shown to be a universal symptom of MDMA toxicity in humans.
Loss of sleep also worsens cognitive ability and increases anxiety substantially.

I was able to feel an appetite, but eating produced EXTREME suffering and anxiety for the entire first month or recovery.
And this became obvious the very first day!
BL and Erowid contain many examples of people drastically altering their diet.
We are talking about fast-food eating stoners going VEGAN.
Quite a change.

And then there is the anxiety and obsession.
They will spend HOURS searching the internet for an answer about what kind of 'brain damage' has occurred to them.
And they will be shocked and disappointed at doctors who know nothing about serotonin!

Where do you fit into this equation?
How do you FEEL?

SS can cause severe and crippling anxiety, changes in vision, appetite, sleep, and the ability to socialize.
As the serotonin network is rewired, the brain maintains a high level of the stress hormone cortisol.
Prolactin may also be elevated, which can be linked to anhedonia - including the ability to experience ANY pleasure during orgasm.
Or feel libido in the first place...

Along with these hormonal symptoms, dopamine imbalance may also occur.
The higher brain is deprived of it, and the limbic system receives an abundance!
This type of imbalance is seen in psychotic disorders like schizophrenia.
Serotonin inhibits dopamine and damage to the network causes improper serotonin transmission, and therefore dopamine suppression.

Dopamine imbalance, combined with elevated cortisol and prolactin...
It is a horrific combination - a soul destroying recipe.
Ironically, this same combination of events occurs during MDMA use!
Just to a lesser degree and in the right sequence.

Recovery from MDMA can feel strangely like MDMA does - but only the worst parts.

Drugs you cannot use:
Anything that agonizes or releases serotonin.
All psychedelics are out - mushrooms, LSD, MDMA, RCs, etc.
Tramadol, DXM, high dose benedryl...
You need to be checking ALL drugs for serotonin activity prior to taking.
Of course, tryptophan and 5-HTP are OUT.

So is weed.
Smoking cannabis causes serotonin activity in the brain - NOT what you want.
Some of the worst panic attacks and episodes of depersonalization/derealization occurred after smoking just a few hits of weed.
It took me over six months to be able to smoke, and even then it was TWO HITS max.
Since I had no tolerance it was plenty...
And even at 14 months now I have lost interest in the stuff.
When my recovery is fully complete, I may revisit pot - but not like I ever smoked before.

Long-term use of cannabis is associated with increased psychological problems among MDMA users.
While the extent of MDMA use predicts the cognitive deficit, it is the extent of cannabis use that predicts the psychological deficit.
This could be due to the fact that cannabis alters the shape and size of the prefrontal cortex, the highest brain region and the ultimate dopamine target of MDMA.
Loss of serotonin in this region is a long-term feature of MDMA toxicity.

Eventually some recovery of serotonin DOES occur, even in the distant PFC.
But it is the last region to recover in the network.

That is the good news from research - there is hope for all.
Even among heavy, long-term users 'clinical' recovery occurs between 12-18 months.
In some cases it goes to 2 years, but this is unusual.
Clinical recovery is defined as a cessation of anxiety and depression and a restoration of normal activity.
There are still lingering cognitive alterations....and changes in endocrine function.
Some BL members concede that the effects can linger for many years....but most will state that around the ONE year mark, things improved significantly.

I agree with that statement - between months 11-13 I noticed a big improvement in sleep.
And the ability to walk away from research and posting for days/weeks in a row.

Drugs you can take:
Alcohol in limited amounts.
It kills nerve growth factors in the brain, but it acts upon the GABA receptors which are safe for you.
Continued or heavy drinking will only halt your recovery, so I recommend strict limitations - like 3 beers, 4 tops.

Benzos also act upon GABA and are quite safe.
They are administered during acute MDMA reactions to shut down toxic glutamate activity.
Note - continued use of benzos will result in higher levels of glutamate!
More than a few days use is enough to cause aggression in most people.
And long-term use causes people to feel like they are having heart-attacks when they stop taking it.

There is only one more option for you - opiates.
In higher doses, many of them have modest effects on serotonin.
So I recommend taking very small doses, but hydrocodone and oxy seem to be acceptable options.
Again, moderation is the key...
Your dopamine system might not respond much to them, and heavy or continued use is only going to make you feel much worse.
Tramadol is not an opiate, it is an opioid with strong serotonin and noradrenaline releasing properties.
Stay away from that one!

Those are the three drugs you can use now alcohol, benzos, and opiates.
Ketamine is a possibility, but MICRO doses are the only recommendation I will offer.
Higher doses do have a marked anti-depressant effect, but they also cause schizophrenic symptoms and dissociation from the body.
The 're-emergence phenomena' is not pleasant at all.
But some BL members claim that regular low dose IM ketamine regrows brain cells...

Your best bet is to EXERCISE.
I guarantee this will make you feel better.
You have to do it.

Exercise releases a serotonin growth factor, BDNF.
It resprouts axons and increases the plasticity of existing ones!
Twenty minutes per day, five days in a row.
I PROMISE results.

It is time to start taking care of yourself - eating right, sleeping right, exercise, sunlight, socializing.
And the harder these things are to do, the MORE important they are to your brain function.
If you have to FORCE it, good.
It will benefit you in ways you cannot imagine.

I'm done for now, be sure to let me know if you have any other questions.
You know where to find me.

FBC
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for posting this. I have been researching this information for a while. About 7 months since the incident. I had a very nasty bout of hallucinations, delusions, a complete freak out. It is honestly very hard and troubling for me to describe what I experienced but here goes. I had been sick with a cold and was practically chugging cough syrup and Dayquil pills all day to feel better while with friends and ended up feeling a bit high. I then went to a friend's very late after all of the medicine, and took one hit from his bong. (Never been a big smoker but I would do it seldom on occasion). After this hit, I was quite cloudy with everything in my system, and decided it would be a great time to take my Effexor.
Soon after this, I started feeling my heart race and felt kind of hot and things started to become distorted. They quickly became completely distorted to the point that I did not think I could see what was in front of me. Every movement I or someone else made seemed very repeated and I began to think that I could not see anything in front of me and that I was in the scene of a movie in a television and would never escape the repetition of it. I had begun to thrash around trying to escape it and screaming NO and HELP ME over and over and crying. At one point, I tried to break my friends fingers with my own hands. I saw some strange colors and visions like an acid trip (which I have never had but can only assume it would be similar). I was trapped in my own head and thought that I was dying or had brain damage and would be stuck inside my head forever. I even saw some of my life events pass before my eyes in a distorted way. Moments of me trying to escape would yell a lot and I got my friend to put me in a cold shower which might have helped a bit. I yelled for an ambulance and they tried to take me outside but I collapsed on the porch as soon as I was, hysterically sobbing and screaming. I think I recall having diarrhea and/or puking. Somehow I eventually calmed down enough to try and lay down but then was violent towards a friend and freaking out when they tried to touch me. By the time I settled down, he said that I was freaking out in my sleep and grinding my teeth all night.
Since then sleeping and functioning has been hard. I spent a LOT of time not being able to sleep for 24 hours at a time and being afraid to sleep. It had gotten a little bit easier most recently, probably because of a slightly better diet, and no substances. I did smoke another two hits a couple months after the incident and had extreme paranoia and some feelings a bit similar to my disoriented state. I recently drank more than I had in a while and blacked out, being extremely violent and crude to others, which is the opposite of my personality. Not sure if my described animal-like behavior relates to SS aftermath at all.
I have definitely still felt the anxiety, unfocused, and unmotivated aspect since the incident. I feel like a different person than I was before and the panic attacks concerning worrying about my death and the presence of an afterlife have not been pleasant. I REALLY thought I was going insane for a few months until I read a little and saw that panic disorders and things can be normal and fixed. Things are slowly decreasing but I just wish I could be that person before but I'm also afraid to take any medicine to try to help my anxiety and agitations. I REALLY wish I could focus like before.
 
Hey gooballs. Was wondering if you have any updates on how you're doing. Would be great to hear. Either way hope all is going well and that you're getting better.
 
First Bad Comedown said:
Your thread is devoid of detail for a person who experienced the most harmful endocrine experience possible...
When I see threads like these I often feel like someone is trolling, trying to get me to write.
As if I could be somehow distracted or even exhausted.

Either you are a troll or you did not experience 'severe' SS.
Share a few details about what happened - not just the cause, but the symptoms.
If you sound sincere, I may be willing to share my experience on what SS is and why you CANNOT smoke weed for a very long time.
As well as what drugs you CAN use...
Click to expand...

Jus wondering if you ever rolled again after ur incident?
 
^ You're probably not gonna get a response from him. He doesn't post much any more. But I think it's safe to say the answer to your question is 'no'.
 
xxxyakinikuxxx said:
^ You're probably not gonna get a response from him. He doesn't post much any more. But I think it's safe to say the answer to your question is 'no'.
Click to expand...

Yea was curious.same stuff happened to me.but i never
Saw out as serotonin syndrome.i happened to o.d.
Worst shit ever.2 years 2 months and still recovering.
Just wanted to hear from some one else I'f mdma
Was ever possible to enjoy again.
 
gio89 said:
Yea was curious.same stuff happened to me.but i never
Saw out as serotonin syndrome.i happened to o.d.
Worst shit ever.2 years 2 months and still recovering.
Just wanted to hear from some one else I'f mdma
Was ever possible to enjoy again.
Click to expand...

If you are still recovering, trying MDMA would be a pretty crazy idea. Even if you've come to the end of your recovery, it is a definite risk as you'll be far more susceptible to the same problems you've had to deal with for over 2 years!! IMO this is not a worthy risk, but if you are going to do it anyway, start on a very low dose, don't redose and wait at least 3 months before doing it again.
 
Yea was curious.same stuff happened to me.but i never
Saw out as serotonin syndrome.i happened to o.d.
Worst shit ever.2 years 2 months and still recovering.
Just wanted to hear from some one else I'f mdma
Was ever possible to enjoy again.
Click to expand...

Definitely dont take mdma if you are recovering. I did and there was zero buzz just made everything 100x worse.

Been there done it got the t shirt and it aint pretty.
 
gio89 said:
Yea was curious.same stuff happened to me.but i never
Saw out as serotonin syndrome.i happened to o.d.
Worst shit ever.2 years 2 months and still recovering.
Just wanted to hear from some one else I'f mdma
Was ever possible to enjoy again.
Click to expand...
That sucks man. I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately seems like I'm in the same boat. Can I ask what have your long term symptoms been?
I would definitely steer clear of mdma. It seems like most people end up in a much worse position if they roll after having one of these comedowns. Other drugs may only affect you psychologically but mdma damages you physically. You're not gonna help yourself out at all by rolling again.
 
Sorry u guys.i should of been more clear
What i Kent top say is I'm still recovering
From my anxiety and fear,i guess you can say.
All the other symptoms are gone.
Chronic fatigue, hazy vision, brain zaps, depression, panic attacks
Etc..i got over that.took me bout a year, after many doctors
Visits.rushes to the e.r.and visits to my psychologist.i was able to cope
With the after math.accepted that all it was, was severe
Anxiety making me feel like i was dying every day.got on preschool
For bout a year.started exercising daily.eating healthy
Staying active.n positive.went from being 183lbs to 138
Healthiest I've been.to opening up my own business :)
Any ways.just to clarify to those going through the same
It gets better.reallydoes.what really helped me.was staying
Active, busy.i picked up on allot of hobbies
Helped me forget about every thing.that i started noticing
That the only times I'd have these awful symptoms
Was when i was just doing nothing and thinking to much
But what i Jenny to say is I'm still recovering from anxiety
And it only happens when i trigger it my self such as when
I take stimulants.such as caffeine, our drink heavy the next day
My hang over is hell.ni was never like that before my incident
So I'm curious to know of anyone who's has recovered but had anxiety
Have they been able to enjoy mdma again.I'm attending edc
This year ni wish i could relive the great times I've had
Of course testing my pills.n only dosing at low amount again.Dori for
Not being clear
 
I hope it is alright to revive this thread for my question... I have tried to get answers in other sections and found none and the sheer amount of information and support in this thread is really motivating... figured it wouldn't hurt to get more eyes on this. A few questions...

1. I had a reaction after a weekend involving 300mg tramadol (once a day for three days), 350 mg SOMA, 50mg Demerol (taken only on friday, 1st day), and a lot of marijuana... after the third day i took the 300mg trams and a 350 SOMA that were fine the first two days and everything went to hell. Got an intense electric feeling, dilated eyes, insane pressure behind the eyes, lsd like sensations and visual disturbances, shaking, confusion, numbness, basically blacked out (though the benzos i took to try and neuroprotect the craziness in my head may have been more responsible for the blackout). Came to later that night and went to the ER. What's weird is that I felt very 'off and awful' for a few days after, but it wasn't until the fourth day that my nightly weed bowl caused a recurrence of symptoms. insane heart rate, fully dilated eyes, sensory disturbances, confusion, thought i was going to die.
Since then i cut out almost all drugs, and after a 5 or so weeks I felt mostly recovered and decided to take amoxicillin for a recurring sore throat i was having (in retrospect likely was due to weed withdrawal) and had an insane recurrence of symptoms. Seemed to have severely delayed my recovery. I am now two months in and feel maybe 60-70% recovered. Crippling anxiety, hallucinations, regular episodes of reccuring symptoms... most of this is gone and all that is left is insane drug sensitivity and a nagging buzz in my head (sometimes accompanied by fatigue or restlessness). I mean crazy drug sensitivty, one hit of low potency weed pushes me to the threshold of having an 'episode', and one stool softener dilated my eyes and drove me to take a benzo 8 hours later to fight off confusion, panic, and other symptoms. I have had severe sensitivty to everything but benzos (even ambien, claritin, stool softener, alcohol, caffeine). Does this sound like the long SS recoveries in this thread or something else?

2. Has anyone posting here (or anyone else that has had strange drug reactions of this sort) seen a full recovery? How long did it take you and what was your use history like before the episode?

3. To those in recovery... were you ever able to enjoy weed the way you used to (ie not worrying about intake causing symptoms). I am finding that weed was truly a medicine for me. Even as withdrawals pass and my normal self returns I am realizing how helpful it was for my add and anxiety. I would hate to think that i'll have to be completely straight-edge for the rest of my life.

Many thanks for your replies... I realize I am newbie on here but I am so worried about this stuff. From what i can tell Blers may know more about this than my doc, who insists that i just have an anxiety disorder (i have had anxiety all my life... this is chemical/biological and im sure of it).
 
hadini said:
I hope it is alright to revive this thread for my question... I have tried to get answers in other sections and found none and the sheer amount of information and support in this thread is really motivating... figured it wouldn't hurt to get more eyes on this. A few questions...

1. I had a reaction after a weekend involving 300mg tramadol (once a day for three days), 350 mg SOMA, 50mg Demerol (taken only on friday, 1st day), and a lot of marijuana... after the third day i took the 300mg trams and a 350 SOMA that were fine the first two days and everything went to hell. Got an intense electric feeling, dilated eyes, insane pressure behind the eyes, lsd like sensations and visual disturbances, shaking, confusion, numbness, basically blacked out (though the benzos i took to try and neuroprotect the craziness in my head may have been more responsible for the blackout). Came to later that night and went to the ER. What's weird is that I felt very 'off and awful' for a few days after, but it wasn't until the fourth day that my nightly weed bowl caused a recurrence of symptoms. insane heart rate, fully dilated eyes, sensory disturbances, confusion, thought i was going to die.
Since then i cut out almost all drugs, and after a 5 or so weeks I felt mostly recovered and decided to take amoxicillin for a recurring sore throat i was having (in retrospect likely was due to weed withdrawal) and had an insane recurrence of symptoms. Seemed to have severely delayed my recovery. I am now two months in and feel maybe 60-70% recovered. Crippling anxiety, hallucinations, regular episodes of reccuring symptoms... most of this is gone and all that is left is insane drug sensitivity and a nagging buzz in my head (sometimes accompanied by fatigue or restlessness). I mean crazy drug sensitivty, one hit of low potency weed pushes me to the threshold of having an 'episode', and one stool softener dilated my eyes and drove me to take a benzo 8 hours later to fight off confusion, panic, and other symptoms. I have had severe sensitivty to everything but benzos (even ambien, claritin, stool softener, alcohol, caffeine). Does this sound like the long SS recoveries in this thread or something else?

2. Has anyone posting here (or anyone else that has had strange drug reactions of this sort) seen a full recovery? How long did it take you and what was your use history like before the episode?

3. To those in recovery... were you ever able to enjoy weed the way you used to (ie not worrying about intake causing symptoms). I am finding that weed was truly a medicine for me. Even as withdrawals pass and my normal self returns I am realizing how helpful it was for my add and anxiety. I would hate to think that i'll have to be completely straight-edge for the rest of my life.

Many thanks for your replies... I realize I am newbie on here but I am so worried about this stuff. From what i can tell Blers may know more about this than my doc, who insists that i just have an anxiety disorder (i have had anxiety all my life... this is chemical/biological and im sure of it).
Click to expand...

What happened after you took yourself to ER?
 
After i took myself to the ER the first time they did scans and found nothing and then sent me home. I felt normal enough to call a cab and go home... But noticed severe drug sensitivity shortly after. I went to the ER a month later because my heart rateseemed irregular, i was faint, my vision was tripping out. Went again a month later because an antibiotic caused an intense return of symptoms. All times they found nothing in ct scans, ekg, or eeg.

At 2.5 months it seems less intense and as long as no chemicals go in my body (even aspartame... Zicam cold remedy caused mild symptoms, even)... Is this permanent. It seems better but as far as drug sensitity goes im not sure if its that much better
 
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