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Serotonin Syndrome aftermath

I feel you man, I was .9 g or 5 HTP for two weeks, while I was on SSRI's, then rolled one night and sniffed some coke.

It was a weird experince, I deperosnalized big time, never got any euphoria though.

I slept fine that night and didn't seem tense, or hyperventilating or anything. So I might have suffered SS as well but ii'm not sure.

By the way, it doesn't matter how much 5 HTP you take. Regardless your body can only take so much. 5-Hydroxytryptophan is decarboxylated to serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine or 5-HT) by the enzyme aromatic-L-amino-acid decarboxylase, which is limited because it's a rate determining enyzme, meaning that it can only process/convert a certian amount of 5 HTP at a time, rendering the rest useless, as 5-Hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) has to be converted to 5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin) before it can cross the BBB (blood brain barrier) to be used by your CNS.

A good idea... But I see some flaws. Even if it was only Processed at a certain rate. . . I believe that is still a lot. What about in large cases where it is processing a certain portion X when 5X was available. Would 5x be fully bypassed and sent out as waste before the enzyme was ready to process another portion of x? Possibly not. It is no doubt course these values exist, the frequency as to which they exist in our 5 htpusers.. Who knows?

At any rate, even if they can turn on and off I don't think they are meant to be on every time possible. Also... Why the hell were you taking .9g of It daily?
 
Well yea, your body's equipt for survival over years of evolution, and referring to our proposed theory of humans evolving from primates, who's main diet was bananas, which is one of the richest tryptophan foods available, they clearly evolutionized a way to keep a baseline serotonin level, or else they'd all die from serotonin syndrome. It's like over filling your gas tank, after it's full the rest goes to waste, plus the higher serotonin levels present in your boxy when you roll, te less neurotoxicity due to more competition with dopamine in being absorbed by SERT.

And for the .9g a day, it was a scientifically proven program called neuroreplete that you can only do under doctors supervision, you can't just buy it. I followed their regimen, and clearly believe it was safe because it's I'm doctors clinics all over the states.
 
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Somedud, I cannot ever recall hearing you say that you did all THREE in one night.
I thought you started the SSRI months after rolling and I may check my old emails later.
But you most certainly did not experience SS as the primary symptoms did not occur - the opposite in fact.
 
Well I was on SSRI's for about 70 days, started reducing my dose about a week before my roll, and never took my ssri for like 2 days before my roll, and during that time I was take .9 g of 5HTP from that neuroreplete program, and they said it was safe to take wit SSRI's because she contacted the resaerch headquaters for nuroreplete. Theres alot of practitioners in the states using it. They were also mixed with various other amino acids, a proprietary blend to stablize sufficent NT's.
 
A lot of people will blame any neurological condition on SS, just because its the most well known.

There are many many many other conditions and syndromes out there though, I would be willing to bet that most suspected cases of it around here are something completely different
 
I found this thread stumbling around the internet for answers post-SS. I just had my bout of SS last week from mixing tramadol with alcohol, and I still feel the throbbing in the back of my head and the constant feeling of pins and needles coursing through my brain and down my spine. Aside from going to bed every night wondering if it's going to be the last time I get to savor the sweet world we're gifted with, I really believe this was the kick in the nuts I needed to get my life back on track. I've stopped smoking the herb, I've stopped drinking booze, I've stopped taking painkillers, and I've even stopped smoking cigarettes! 2 days after my bout with SS was the first time I've taken my dog running in 3 months, and I've been running him every day since. I just ordered a mountain bike on Amazon and when it arrives I'll be trail-riding in the desert hills of Nevada that are so close, yet were so far away before.

when my brain chemistry gets back into order and the crippling anxiety and constant fear of death goes away, I hope to be the healthiest and strongest that I've ever been in my life. I look forward to the day when I'll be able to toke it up again for old times sake, but perhaps by that point I'll be an entirely new me without a desire to.

thanks to all who contributed to this thread, it really provided a lot of info that the doctor was unable to.
 
kr1nge - I'm glad you found this thread in your time of need.
I must say that tramadol + alcohol does not typically cause SS unless the tramadol is pushed into higher doses, like 400mg.
In elderly people this is known to occur in lower doses, but for most people tramadol must be mixed with another serotonin agent for serotonin syndrome to occur.

Of course enough alcohol would cause a pretty poor reaction when mixed with just about ANY drug other than cannabis.
I just don't understand why so many people online think drinking goes with drugs - gross.

You might consider yourself a candidate for having a sensitive serotonin system.
During my long recovery from MDMA and benedryl induced SS, I found that reasonable doses of tramadol (50-75mg) would cause SS symptoms.
These included severe anxiety, sweating, increase in body temperature, cold chills, brain zaps...
The worst part lasted at least half an hour and the whole experience would take almost two hours to pass!

And I used to enjoy 100mg of tramadol on a regular basis.
Now it is a fairly risky substance for me, and I have encountered other former MDMA users with similar stories.
Even smoking weed can be very difficult, but I expect this will improve soon.

The funny thing is that during the first month post SS, I smoked and took tramadol several times without a bad reaction.
It was only after the first three months that it became obvious - my brain is being rewired so that any serotonin releasing drugs will induce different results. It is the passage of time that is causing the changes, probably permanently.

So it is a good thing you are taking this so seriously, because it is possible to NEVER enjoy taking drugs again.
Sucks, doesn't it?

Keep exercising and wait.
A long time.
 
Thanks for sharing your personal experience FBC, It's much appreciated! I'm absolutely terrified of trams now. The junkie in me held them in my hand the other day (without intent to take,) and I was overwhelmed with anxiety just thinking about those little white pills in my hand.

Today I experienced a weird feeling residual from SS. I was at work and one of my female coworkers started rubbing my neck because she said I looked stressed, and I began to feel the BAD brain tickle. the back of my thighs started to feel ticklish and weak and I started to get anxious and politely moved away and said "thank you," and I felt the discomfort for another 10 minutes or so. Have you experienced anything like that FBC?

I think the first week of recovery was especially bad because I was going through nicotine withdrawals at the same time as feeling the SS after effects. The last couple nights It's only taken me about an hour to fall asleep once my head hit the pillow, which is a GREAT improvement over the first week. I've discovered that I can't sleep in my usual position anymore, which was on my stomach without a pillow. When I try, I get that "too much serotonin" feeling until I raise my head higher. I've found now that the best sleeping position for me is on my back with one pillow under my upper back and one folded under my head to raise it up. Know any quality of life tips like this one to make everyday living a little easier?

Would you, FBC, or anyone else know the proper term to describe the anxious brain-tickly "too much serotonin" feeling in the back of your brain? I think that feeling has replaced the normal cigarette craving feeling I used to get around a smoking trigger which is pissing me off! lol, gotta stay clean though, can't go this far into a ciggy quit just to turn around :)
 
Quick reply this morning, gotta run.
But the name you are looking for, in my opinion, is altered rCBV.

Regional cerebral blood volume changes are common among MDMA users, with decreases being seen for weeks/months post use.
But INCREASES are less common and are associated with head-pressure, brain zaps, anxiety....all signs of neurotoxicity and rewiring.
In some people they take over a year to recede - but they DO stop.

Good news, early onset seems to be a sign of quick recovery too.
Some BL members describe brain zaps that last a few days after a heavy use.
Lucky them. My head-pressure lasted more than a year!
Mild remnants still occur, but they don't bother me.

Best thing for it?
Exercise!

Get the blood pumping and you will sprout more capillaries.
And serotonin axons.
Seriously.
 
2 bowls of whole grain cereal + milk + banana is much better than 5HTP and othr supplements IMO. You get other essential proteins like phenylalanine and plenty of tryptophan with complex nutritious carbohydrates to aid in the synthesis into dopamine/norepenephrine and serotonin... naturally with food.

Besides, proteins like 5HTP don't synth well into serotonin and other body chemicals without any carbohydrates and B vitamins.

IMO tryptophan supplements are better than 5HTP and should be taken with some pasta or whole grains. But milk has plenty of tryptophan
 
Well I've been sticking with my exercise regimen thus far. My boss switched me against my will from day shift (10-6) to swing shift (4-12) which has really upped my anxiety and insomnia. I've discovered that my last love and passion in this world, caffeine, has also been causing me serotonin headaches, so she too must go the way of the Dodo.
In lighter news, I've taken this opportunity to fill out my FAFSA. I've decided to go back to school this summer and make something of myself. I have been exactly one math class away from an AA degree for 2 years, and I'm sick of feeling like a failure. All this medical research makes me want to take more science classes and become a doctor. haha.

I also have some kirkland multivitamin packs from Costco; should I be taking these right now or just get all my nutrition from food and drinks?
 
I also have some kirkland multivitamin packs from Costco; should I be taking these right now or just get all my nutrition from food and drinks?
Multivitamins are hardly absorbed and do little more than unnecessarily strain your kidneys.

Instead you could just stick to good healthy nutritious food..

Food is better IMO.
 
I got your message.

CONTENT!

I'm done for now, be sure to let me know if you have any other questions.
You know where to find me.

FBC

This is one of the better posts from you bud, curious, can cocaine use cause SS? I know that it mainly effects dopamine production and release. Also, in tachycardia you're right, fear of death is quite prevalent. I used to have extreme panic attacks after i hit a brick wall from cocaine use (incredibly quickly mind you, i used HEAVILY for like 2 weeks then was devastated mentally and ended up in the hospital a few times thinking my heart was going to explode for days after use, even weeks the second time)

I used coke once a few YEARS after and had the worst panic attack and tachycardia ever, my heart was thumping like a dirty dubstep track at a Drum n bass bpm, i was POSITIVE i was going to die and i almost passed out.

regardless, you're right, exercise and healthy diet/sleep is the most powerful recovery agent available to us, just as any necessary healing (mental, physical, spiritual) is greatly slowed via unhealthy habits. Cigarette smokers have a recovery time almost 2 fold of those who have healthier habits, of course all things dependent on the situation.

AT ANY RATE, for me, cannabis use would recreate and greatly increase the problem. I want to research SS, as i can related to a lot of the experiences you had, although the odd part is the depression, anxiety, and other side effects were closely related to cocaine and cannabis use.

Also, FBC is so right, anything that plays on GABA receptors will actually be quite pleasant

if you can find some L-theanine on amazon, take it, Sun thenaine is a great brand. It will have a positive impact i can guarantee, and it works on your GABA system similar to benzos (its actually a health nut's replacement to benzo meds)
 
kr1nge, it sounds like your doing mostly everything you can to recover, all you can do is continue on that path and you'll feel better everyday. Its been a while since I've checked this thread but I've been following the advice FBC laid down and like you were thinking you would I'm beginning to feel like a new me entirely. Its been over a month and my desire to smoke is almost completely gone, which may me due to me trying to smoke a couple days ago and having a horrible reaction which felt like a relapse of SS mixed in with depression and weird out-of-body feelings. I think its probably best to just not try at all... there's no point the longer you go without it the easier it gets and the better you'll feel. It's good that you can sleep so easily, like i said its been a month and when i lay in bed my eyes just dont want to close and i feel jolts of energy that make me want to just get up and walk around. It usually takes me a few hours before I can really fall asleep. All i can really say its just keep working out(lifting weights too me provide the best relief), eat healthy, and stay away from pretty much all drugs, the occasional benzo really seems to have no negative reactions and ive also done some roxys with only positive effects but the recovery would most likely only be quicker without them.
 
gooballs man I'm so sorry that you're having such bad sleeping issues. It's a coin toss with me depending on how good I've been that day. With a before-bed run and no caffeine all day I'll usually get to sleep within an hour. perhaps you can give that a shot? Do you get a serotonin headache when you lay down or is it more Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from thinking about when you had the original SS?
 
Well for the first couple weeks I got headaches everyday and not just when I'd lay down but all the time. They come and go now but your right they seem to happen more at night when I lay down. I'm not sure if thats what keeps me up tho it's kind of hard to tell but it definintely contributes to me staying awake. I'm gunna take your advice and go on a late night run hopefully that'll help. As far as anxiety goes, fearing the original SS, I get that too but working out really helps that stay away. That usually doesnt happen at night, the most anxious I get is when im around my friends while they smoke, it's sorta like the way taste aversion works when you eat something that makes you sick. Weed just freaks me out now its really a bit of a shame but for the best for sure.
 
how did the running before bed work out for you?
I hear ya on the weed. I almost had an anxiety attack just from a friend asking if he wanted me to come over and smoke with him yesterday. For me, it's very PTSD with the weed. I was smoking weed also when I had my SS, so I'm absolutely terrified of it. Most people say weed helps with anxiety, but certainly not for us in SS recovery!
 
Late-night runs definitely seem to relax me enough to help me sleep thanks for that man. After enough physical activity theres this relatively short period of time where I feel incredible and completely immune to all PTSD and SS symptoms. During that little threshold soon after runnin I can fall asleep much easier. Weed used to relax me too... now with its slight serotonin related mechinism of action, which I don't completely understand but is obviously there, it won't do that any longer.
 
Hey everyone.

This is my first post on BL and my reason for doing so is because after years of suffering (yes years, 4 to be exact), I have just recently begun to look into serotonin syndrome. I understand that my case is going to be a bit unusual compared to most of you, given how long I've been dealing with my symptoms as well as what I feel may have caused it, but just bear with me please, because this is honestly the first time in a very long time that I feel like I may have found some answers as to what the nature of my debilitating condition is. The reason I even looked into SS in the first place is because in the last few weeks I had begun looking at my symptoms from a more psychiatric perspective simply because things have taken a turn for the worse and I realized that I have OCD at a level I wasn't accepting or even fully aware of before. Along with this, I also realized that I may have panic disorder, something originally diagnosed years ago but that I rejected due to the nature of all my physical symptoms. Because of this more recent perspective, I was prescribed Prozac as well as a benzo to take while I increase my dose weekly from 10mg a day to 60mg a day. SS was of course one of the warnings in the list of side effects for the Prozac. Long story short, I haven't begun taking the Prozac yet simply because of my most recent perspective (yes, that's a lot of perspective change in such a short period of time) regarding SS and, despite its rarity in the first place, the potential for symptoms to linger on for extended periods of time in a kind of "chronic SS" state, even though I'm sure almost all doctors out there would reject such a notion.

Why do I feel I may be dealing with this? Four years ago I was an ecstasy user, just like the rest of you, as well as involved with cocaine, amphetamine, cannabis, mushroom, opiate, alcohol, and tobacco use. There was also a couple of times I used DXM, but what I'd like to focus on here is mainly the MDMA, amphetamine (Adderall), and cocaine. These are the ONLY drugs that I ever had a severe problem with relative to the others I used. The first bad experience was with Adderall, though I had used MDMA several times prior to this experience with no ill effects besides the common depressed feeling you can get after coming down. To put it briefly, after I had come down from the Adderall, I had a terrifying experience that made me feel like my brain was swelling. There was no intense head pressure, but more like the sensation that my head was expanding on the inside accompanied with disorientation, disequilibrium, shaking, dilated pupils, and an increase in temperature. The panic was unbearable (feeling like I was going to die) and the agitation and excitability was equally so. My father watched over me that night and thankfully I woke up feeling better, although I was still spacy for a couple of days afterward. My next bad experience was with MDMA, though this was the only bad experience I had ever had with it. Everything I just described happened in the same way while I was with friends, except it didn't last as long and I also experienced mild hallucinations as I came down (the walls looking like they were moving). A couple months later, I began getting more into cocaine. I had done it a couple of times in the past, and it always made me feel like shit as I was coming down, but it never did what I'm about to describe. I shared 2 grams among friends (having 0.5 grams for myself) and as the friend that stayed with me and I came down, we smoked half of a dub thinking it would aid me so that I didn't feel as crappy as the coke left my system. All at once I heard this sound in my head as if the TV in the room had turned on (that sudden shift in pitch and presence). I even asked my friend what turned on because it was so loud to me. The experience I described with the Adderall took place only at an insane level. The hallucinations from the second experience were much more prevalent, like noise on a TV screen. Parts of my vision would twitch and shake, walls would move and crawl, colors would be distorted, etc. I felt this incredible sense of tension in my lower body and I cold barely keep my legs from violently twitching, as well as my left arm. I could feel that I was running a fever and my anxiety was through the roof. I thought this was it for sure. I even called the poison control center and told them what I had done. They said to go to the hospital but I had no way of getting there so I had to just try and ride it out on the sofa. The next day I was so relieved to wake up and know that I was alive. I believe that I simply passed out from exhaustion, and I vowed never to touch cocaine again. Over the next few weeks, I felt this overwhelming sense of brain fog, and whenever I smoked weed it was no longer pleasant as it once was before this latest experience. It would make me go into a state of panic and my spacial coordination was all off. I would also experience these twinging, pinching headaches that would come and go. I knew something was very off. Soon enough, I began experiencing "episodes" very similar to the ones I had after taking the amphetamine, MDMA, or cocaine, except this time, I wasn't doing any drugs, they would simply happen. Eventually I realized that my drug life was over for a period of time that I was very unsure of. I stopped everything, even cigarettes because they made me feel like I was going to fall over and they gave me a kind of tunnel vision.

Over a period of a few months and seeking answers from doctors to no avail, my symptoms that i've been dealing with for over 4 years began to manifest. They are as follows: head pressure; pressure behind the eyes; pinching/stabbing pains in my skull and inner ears; visual distortions like increased afterimages, blurriness, cloudiness around lights, visual snow, light sensitivity, trails behind moving objects (especially when there's contrast), and false perception of movement; chronically dry eyes; dizziness, false sense of motion (like rocking on a boat), balance problems, and motion sickness; intermittent low grade fevers (anywhere from 99 to 101); burning nerve sensations in my wrists, left shoulder, and seemingly from within my brain; nausea; occasional hyperactive gastrointestinal noises, especially when laying down; an often intense heat sensation from my stomach/bowel area; general fatigue; cold chills and tingling sensations; occasional tachycardia and heart palpitations (PVCs); chronic clenching or grinding of my teeth, and when trying to cease, getting the feeling of needing to clench my hands together or do something else to relieve tension; a general sense of my brain/CNS being polluted; frightening derealization; terrible depression and anxiety; extreme difficulty going to sleep (usually experiencing an intense dysphoria and horrifying depersonalization, as well as very intense brain zaps that often have me shooting straight up in my bed and having to get oriented for a few minutes); fits of incessant yawning. I've also noticed, as stated in my first paragraph, a drastic increase in mental problems, most notably OCD and what I'm assuming are panic attacks, which thus spurred me to seek psychiatric help in hopes that it could resolve more of my problems than I originally thought.

As I previously said, I haven't started taking the Prozac yet because after reading THIS ARTICLE as well as coming to this forum and reading all of your posts, I have come to the conclusion that I could potentially be suffering from some continuous form of SS and the Prozac could very well fuck me up even more than I already am. I've recently (within the last few days) been experiencing a lot more rigidity and have had a recurring fever that has climbed up to 101 along with moderately dilated pupils and reduction in coordination. I have taken a benzo when my anxiety has gotten really bad (lorazepam) and these really seem to help, but I know I can't get too dependent on them.

I know this was a long post, and I commend and appreciate you for reading through all of it, but as you can see I am in a very desperate situation and have been for a very long time. I'm only 21 years old and my life is severely limited because of all this. I don't drive, I can't live alone, and I don't work because I know for a fact that I couldn't withstand to be placed under someone else's employment criteria and hope to survive for too long, given the severity and prevalence of my symptoms. I have better days than some, but most often I am significantly restricted from doing what I wish I could. What friends I do have come to visit me on occasion... but that is few and far between, and mostly my social life is dismal. Again, any insight would be appreciated, especially from First Bad Comedown, as it seems you really know your stuff.

Thank you, and I hope you're all doing well or better than usual.
 
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