omg girlfriend said something that upset me a lot!! :(

[$ublimaze]

Hey SLR,


I was totally upset today from something that my girlfriend said. Its really silly that I should care so much, but its just such a dear part of my values that it hurts to think she feels so different.

Basically we were talking about shares and I said that I would want nothing to do with corporations shares and she was like trying to convince me it was a good idea to invest in some banking share stuff. I'm saying I don't care how much money I get back, I want nothing to do with taking advantage of people and making profit off of people by owning a part of a corporation. She says that its all the same anyway, look your wearing nikes right now! I say well theres a fundamental difference between things that I can control and can't control.

Currently I can't buy any shoes that are not owned by some corporation. If I could buy some hand made canadian home grown boots, I fucking would!! I just don't have the money or the time right now. So I can't control buying "nikes" right now. However, if I had a large sum of money, I have all the control over my decisions on it. I can choose to invest it into some greedy evil extortion corporation, or I can decide to invest it in some other sort of structure. She says well its all the same, you buy nikes, so thats the same as me buying shares. I am like wtf, no! Its similar, but totally different. In one instance I am getting reamed up the ass by a system that forces me to work at mcdonalds and then leaves no other option for footwear than nike or w/e other cheap shoe. In the other instance, the person is in a complete position of choice on what they can do with their money, and if they choose to invest it into some sort of machine that basically rapes and piliges 3rd world countries, I think that is just totally fucked up.

There is a complete difference!~! She says well what if you make 3 million and then go build wells and schools. I.e u use the money that u made from stocks(extorted and used people to get) and then go in build fucking schools in their country after?? lol. So you make em live in terrible conditions and fuck em over, and then go and be all healing and benevolent? bullshit.

I know for a fact that peopel who really care about being honest and not using people, are not capable of owning the types of businesses that make millions because it requires them to do shifty untruthful shit. They simply don't want to take advantage of people ever. They cant justify taking advantage of people just so they can help other people. The funny thing is, She is the type of person who wouldnt take advantage of people. She just cant see what shes doing. She would never open up a Mcdonalds. She would never get involved in any of that gross fucking sales/slime ball company robbery stuff.

Its just because shares seem so far removed from directly taking advantage and using people, so she thinks its different. Its completely the same. Its kind of like the person who eats meat, but wouldn't do it if they had to kill the animal them selves.

What really struck me is how heated she was on the topic. It was like I was questioning her religion or something. She kept bringing me and her into the discussion. Saying that I am self righteous. Maybe I am, I dunno, I am just stating what I see and believe strongly in it and can clearly see that she doesn't know wtf shes talking about because it doesn't make any sense. I can tell when shes not getting what I am saying, not as in shes not agreeing with me, just as in she plainly is missing the logic. We are kind of going through school together(I help her a lot with medical school stuff). So I know her brain well. I know how she figures stuff out, and I just felt like she had made up her mind already and wasn't ready to listen.

It fucking bums me out so much. This is the girl that I sleep with. This is my sexy baby. I don't want her to have any single tiny eeny weeny trace of using people on her. It grosses me out. I know she doesn't have bad intentions. I know she doesn't want to hurt people, but its the not questioning her own beliefs that is a turn off.

I mean, we just had the discussion, so maybe in a week or a month or something she will come around. I certainly believe that if she had the wide range of influences and availability of differing opinions that I have had, she would see her gap in logic.

I remember being exactly where she is. Honestly, I was just as fucking thick and head strong as she was. It took a lot of bashing around before I got the idea of choice. How its different to be someone in a position of choice in regards to putting a spin on corporations and being a person who just has to use a corporation to live reasonably.

What I mean is that if you are poor and you have to buy eggs and the cheapest ones are from some evil thing, you just gota do it! You aint got the choice! But when you have a fucking shit ton of money, you have a choice. You can choose to invest it in the cheaper evil eggs or the nice local ones. You can choose to invest your money in corporations that extort people, or you can choose not to. The logic of "its just the way the world is, if you don't do it someone els will anyway, and I am going to use the system to make millions so I can help other people with all the money" is flawed. Period.

So this really upset me. I don't know what it means. Its not like a deal breaker or anything stupid like that. Shes still the same person. Its just a really gross conservative attitude in my eyes, and I really want it whiped clean from her beautiful mind asap lol.

I don't want like her to just believe me, I want her to actually understand.

The funny thing is, all the great minds know this. All one has to do is watch a talk of TED, Ghandi, Martin Luthar King, Naom Chomski, whoever... Its not like I don't have a fucking army of brilliant amazing thinkers backing me up.

And its not like the converse argument doesnt have a an army of greedy non questioning subjective cut throat close minded folk on their end. lol.

Seriously who is going to support the idea of using companies like Nike or even better a weapons manufacturer so that they can make lots of money and then help people after lol. People with invested interests...

Pwease help lol. I feel an urgent need to fix this. We have been talking about forms of birth control lately, but I am thinking all she has to do is keep this attitude up and remind me of it now and then.

Don't get me wrong. My GF is fucking so sexy. She is so attractive to me mentally too. Its just this one little view.

I think a part of it is that she comes from big money and she has like some insane amount of money coming to her soon. She just seemed so invested in it.

She even said to me I thought about it and I made up my mind and nobody is going to change it lol.

I thought ok well, I believe in my argument well, but I def don't feel that confident in myself!!

PLZ!!! Tell me about your views on the subject and how you would feel if u were in my situation. Would you care? What do you think I should do?

Any ideas on how to get her to learn how her ideas would be a disaster? I am going to look for some lectures/articles out there. You guys know any?

Thank you so much

You guys are the best!!

 

[Pander Bear]

your excuse that you can't make ethical purchases until you're wealthy enough is bullshit. You could have gone to a thrift store and bought used shoes. You both have total control over how your money is spent. Moreover, shareholders of public companies are able to vote for the leadership of those companies, so purchasing stock could be a more ethical choice than purchasing products, even if it was from the same "evil" company.

Saying that I am self righteous.

you are, but worse, you're not being very smart. You don't think you can invest in a company that shares your values and beliefs? I doubt it. As for the general idea of things you "need" and are "forced to buy" because you are poor, like eggs... you are always confronted with choices. You can choose to spend more of your time growing your own food. You can choose to forgo things like nikes so you can buy organic eggs. You can choose to look for a better job with your free time.

The idea that you are powerless until you're a millionaire is horseshit, and if that's the message you're getting from TEDsters, MLK, Ghandi, and Chomsky, you're missing the point.

As for advice for you in your relationship-- let it go. You're making yourself sound like a whiny crybaby. If the world is exploiting you, with go out and exploit it back, or do well by doing good. Either way, show some more spine, and stop acting like you have no agency. You speak english and have access to a computer with the internet, so you're already a winner.

 

[eon_blue]

^ What he said.

Self-righteous is one word I'd use, naive being another. I can think of a few more but they're not quite so kind.

Seriously, there are countless ways to practice what you're preaching. Instead, you're choosing not to and worse yet you're attempting to make her out to be the bad guy for not abiding to your code of ethics when you're not even doing it yourself.

I can't think of a better example of someone being self-righteous.

 

[junglejuice]

Well...you wanted other people's input. Frankly I think they make good points. I think the situation and this thread show what happens when people tell you what you don't want to hear.

 

[SKL]

tl;dr

Get over it. This is not something get in a big drama with your s.o. over FFS.

 

[$ublimaze]

^ get over what? That I don't want my GF to be involved in using people? Excuse me I have had enough takers in my life for a lifetime ok? I don't want the person I share my body and spirit with to be using people and its important to me.

This is not just something I should get over. She is going to be in a serious position of power and it would break my heart if she went down the path of maximizing profit at all cost.

You don't seem to understand how important this is to her specifically. If it was just some pie in the sky who cares we will never have to face that later on in the road thing, then ok... fine...


______________________________________________
Quote:

Originally Posted by eon_blue
^ What he said. Self-righteous is one word I'd use, naive being another. I can think of a few more but they're not quite so kind.

Seriously, there are countless ways to practice what you're preaching. Instead, you're choosing not to and worse yet you're attempting to make her out to be the bad guy for not abiding to your code of ethics when you're not even doing it yourself.

I can't think of a better example of someone being self-righteous.

You also don't seem to get the idea of choice in this matter. I abide by my values to the degree in which I can and live a normal life.

What she is suggesting is profiting off of other peoples suffering. You know, oil companies, weapon manufacturers, sugar slave workers, diabetee enriched shit food for high prices, all that kinda jaz. She is saying that she agrees with it and that she is willing to invest in it.

Dont try to compare some cheap plastic shoes out of necessity with being a fucking millionaire shareholder who supports extorting people. tis just so wack...

_____________________________________________________
lol clearly u are clueless.

Of course u cant make perfect ethical choices even if u are wealthy.

Quote:
You could have gone to a thrift store and bought used shoes.

Oh I do not support companies by going to a thrift store?? WRONG!! Thrift stores often get their clothes from corporations and half of them are corporations. I agree it is the less harmful choice in most circumstances though.

Quote:
Moreover, shareholders of public companies are able to vote for the leadership of those companies, so purchasing stock could be a more ethical choice than purchasing products, even if it was from the same "evil" company.

You don't think you can invest in a company that shares your values and beliefs? I doubt it.
Clearly u don't know shit about corporations. It doesn't matter who the leadership is. They are bound to maximize profit at all costs. They are psychopathic in nature. There are some nice modern corporations out there like google for instance, and I totally agree with investing money in things like that if u believe in it.

I would say its a great idea to invest money for shares in unions or something that you believe in. Thats not what we were talking about though. We were talking about a special bank share that goes to a bunch of tiny companies, and we don't know which ones they are. I was specifically talking about Nike with her ok??

Quote:
The idea that you are powerless until you're a millionaire is horseshit

Hmm thats funny I don't remember saying anything about being powerless until your a millionaire. I said that if you have enough money you can choose which sort of things you wish to buy. Until then, one may be stuck buying items which are cheap, necessary, and come from places one doesnt agree with.

And Finally. DONT give me this you can just go live in the forest bullshit. It doesn't work that way. I am talking about practical living bro. Sure instead of buying shoes from payless for 20 dollars, I could wear paper bags on my feet. Or wait, I could go be a hermit!! Not, I would probably die from not being able to survive out there. I can't grow my own vegetables bro. I don't even have a lawn.

Your talking shit and it seems like there was more emotion than reason in your post. I have agency, and you have no fucking clue the condition of my "spine"

 

[SKL]

Seek therapy.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Until then, one may be stuck buying items which are cheap, necessary, and come from places one doesnt agree with.

I don't have a lot of money and I am conscious in every choice I make regarding purchases.... I just choose to be that way, about things I care about. For me, if I couldn't afford cage free eggs *legitimate ones, as that label in itself doesn't mean much* that came from well treated chickens, I WOULDN'T eat eggs at all... I don't think you are ever "stuck" buying anything. People went without 99% of the shit we have now for thousands of years.... it's amazing what you CAN go without if you want to take a stand.

Thrift stores often get their clothes from corporations and half of them are corporations. I agree it is the less harmful choice in most circumstances though.

An even better option is to find companies you DO want to support. Companies that do good things. They are out there, and I guarantee you can buy things from them for the same price as a pair of Nikes *since when are Nikes "cheap" shoes btw? I grew up never being able to afford shoes like that*

And Finally. DONT give me this you can just go live in the forest bullshit. It doesn't work that way. I am talking about practical living bro.

I hadn't got to this part yet. I was going to say, you can live in the forest if you want to, lol. People actually do that around here. Go camp out in the forest and live off the grid, come into town once in awhile for supplies... it's a crazy life, no doubt. And apparently one you would find impractical, I guess. But it can be done. For me, if I was as passionate about my beliefs as you seem to be, I certainly wouldn't be so closed minded to possibilities which would actually allow you to escape the system you seem so against (and living off the grid in a forest is just one of them).

I would probably die from not being able to survive out there. I can't grow my own vegetables bro. I don't even have a lawn.

Well... if you're passionate about creating a world you respect, then you have to make changes yourself. Unable to live the lifestyle you want where you currently live? Change something. Feel you would be unable to survive "out there"? Change something. No excuses. Everyone can make excuses til the day they die; there are plenty of reasons. But it's a useless thing to do, especially if you want to inspire changes in other people such as your girl. It's the people who don't accept excuses and really stand up and live the life they believe in who inspire change in the world.

You also don't seem to get the idea of choice in this matter. I abide by my values to the degree in which I can and live a normal life.

The desire of people to live what you are describing as a "normal life" is what allows these huge corporations to thrive and abuse the shit out of the earth. If you want to take a stand for something, you may have to sacrifice some of your "normal life" stuff. As I said, people went without most of these things you would probably consider "normal" for life for thousands of years.

What she is suggesting is profiting off of other peoples suffering. You know, oil companies, weapon manufacturers, sugar slave workers, diabetee enriched shit food for high prices, all that kinda jaz. She is saying that she agrees with it and that she is willing to invest in it.

Well, I wouldn't like that either. But you say your differing world views are not a deal breaker, so I guess you should just let it go. And start making more changes yourself, that will help people not to respond to you like this:

Seriously, there are countless ways to practice what you're preaching. Instead, you're choosing not to and worse yet you're attempting to make her out to be the bad guy for not abiding to your code of ethics when you're not even doing it yourself.

I'm not judging you at all. It's fine if you don't want to make any changes and continue living your normal life. But you are feeding into the same system as your girl... and people will probably continue to respond to you in the way they have in this thread if you don't start being a little more careful about practicing what you preach....

 

[$ublimaze]

I love how people are so quick to judge me, but none have you have really offered any evidence for me to feel any differently. None of you have come up with a clear point stating that its not taking advantage of people to get involved with those things. Thats because you cant.

So basically your saying, oh just don't care if it is taking advantage. No. I do care.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Then change something!

You can't change what she does but you can change what YOU do, and hope it inspires her. It just is coming across like you aren't changing anything.

I do think it is taking advantage of people to be involved in those things. My point is, you are involved in those things as well. We all are to some degree, there is a huge gray area between living in some rich ass condo, with your ten big screen tv's and every appliance imaginable, investing all your money in huge corporations and doing all your shopping at wal mart OR living in the forest hunting your own food and sewing your own clothes out of animal skins....

You just have to find where you feel comfortable with your place in society. At the place you are at now, some might think you hypocritical for your preaching... you can't preach about all of this stuff and then demand a "normal" lifestyle... gotta make sacrifices if you want to take a stand and be heard.

 

[Pander Bear]

Then leave your girlfriend, genius.

 

[$ublimaze]

mynameisnotdeja: thank you. Nice post. I know I am contributing to it lol. I am even a smoker! I guess it sounds like some puritin shit, but its really not!

Its just like this. You know a car sales man? U want to fucking date a car sales man? No? Me neither. Why? Cuz they use people all fucking day and trick them at every chance they get! Not all, obviously, but lots of them do that.

Well sales is in the same books as actively seeking out and then buying a chunk of a corporation to me. Its actually 100x worse. It totally grosses me out.

I am like the furthest thing from a hippy lol. I just fucking draw the line at profiting off of extorting people ON PURPOSE!!!

 

[$ublimaze]

Then change something!

You can't change what she does but you can change what YOU do, and hope it inspires her. It just is coming across like you aren't changing anything.

I do think it is taking advantage of people to be involved in those things. My point is, you are involved in those things as well. We all are to some degree, there is a huge gray area between living in some rich ass condo, with your ten big screen tv's and every appliance imaginable, investing all your money in huge corporations and doing all your shopping at wal mart OR living in the forest hunting your own food and sewing your own clothes out of animal skins....

You just have to find where you feel comfortable with your place in society. At the place you are at now, some might think you hypocritical for your preaching... you can't preach about all of this stuff and then demand a "normal" lifestyle... gotta make sacrifices if you want to take a stand and be heard.

Theres nothing to be changed silly. I don't have any shares sitting in the bank and I go to a credit union. I don't extort people or use them on purpose and thats all I want from her.

Why u acting like I am not living up to what I expect of her? I am. We both hate sales and the sales lifestyle. She was a telemarketer for a while and she cant stand what the people there become. She simply doesn't see that shareholding and stockbrokering is the same fucking game as telemarketing sales.

I really think that the lack of being right here with me now having a discussion with me is making it difficult for u guys to see where I am coming from. The whole chat thing takes a big part of expression away.


and wtf are u talking about. The only thing I was preaching about is not to be a fucking banker! lol that was my only demand. I didnt say dont buy smokes, I didnt even say dont buy nikes! I simply said that I don't want her to be own shares because its exploitive.

I totally know the attitude that you guys are mistaking me for having. Its this fucking self righteous teeny bopper attitude of complaining about for instance someone eating meat, or using unhealthy dish soap, but then they go and get on an airplane which uses tons of fuel and ruins the sky.

Thats not what I am like lol. I simply don't want to see my girl with blood on her hands. Real blood. U don't fucking understand what shes capable of lol.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Well, you have every right to say "this is where I'm willing to take a stand, and that's it"... if you're doing what you're willing to do, as far as you feel you can do it, then just be happy with that and if people challenge you on it sometimes, so be it. But no one likes to be preached at (edit- I GET that you're only preaching about the investment thing and not the other stuff, but still, she wont like it)and in my experience people will look for ways to find hypocrisy in what you're saying, so just be prepared for that IF you open up the subjects for debate the way you did with your girl.

I know you said it wasn't a deal breaker but you seem pretty upset about it. If your girl doesn't share your worldview it could definitely cause problems in the relationship. You guys will probably just have to agree to disagree, or you will have to change stuff in your own lifestyle for her to stop thinking you hypocritical and possibly even inspire her...

In my experience, if you have already decided something isn't a deal breaker it's best just to let it go and agree to disagree.... but if it disgusts you as much as it seems to, you might want to question whether it IS a deal breaker. I don't think it is out of line if you decide it is, btw... your choice.

 

[Pegasus]

^Dude, you're not even really making sense. Also, you're grasping some abstract, albeit apparently well-intentioned concept of morality and trying to force it on someone else.

What are you accomplishing by arguing this with your girlfriend? You can't expect her to sacrifice her well-being for your ideals. You can rebel and go against society all you want on your own, but to expect her to do the same is not reasonable.

 

[$ublimaze]

Then leave your girlfriend, genius.

can u just please stop responding to my messages? Thanks. I'll do the same for you pal.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

I do get where you're coming from, just so you know. And I'm not even saying that I personally am responding to you that way or calling you a hypocrite. I just know how people work and how these things tend to go, and if people can find anything in your words that they can throw back at you as hypocritical, they WILL...

Honestly all of this stuff is why I don't enjoy debating and don't bother with it 99% of the time. I was lucky enough to find a partner who is on the same wavelength as myself on just about every subject so we rarely have these types of problems. But I have plenty of friends who have very different worldviews than myself and it's easier just to let them have their views and let me have mine. It's too much energy...

 

[$ublimaze]

^Dude, you're not even really making sense. You're grasping some abstract, albeit apparently well-intentioned concept of morality and trying to force it on someone else.

What are you accomplishing by arguing this with your girlfriend? You can't expect her to sacrifice her well-being for your ideals. You can rebel and go against society all you want on your own, but to expect her to do the same is not reasonable.

I hope to accomplish her understanding the well known fact that owning shares is usery(see the act of making money off of money, and how horrible of an impact that has).

I hope for her to realize that shares are not consistant with her values. Which I believe they are not. I hope to be able to kiss her at night without thinking omfg my girl is part of the whole take take take system in a major way!!

We learn and challenge our beliefs all the time. We are constantly showing each-other where we think the other went wrong and how we can improve. I have already been talking to her since I started this thread and I have noticed that she is starting to loosen up and stop being so quick to defend. Like I said, there was a lot of zeal involved for some odd reason.

 

[Pegasus]

mynameisnotdeja: thank you. Nice post. I know I am contributing to it lol. I am even a smoker! I guess it sounds like some puritin shit, but its really not!

Its just like this. You know a car sales man? U want to fucking date a car sales man? No? Me neither. Why? Cuz they use people all fucking day and trick them at every chance they get! Not all, obviously, but lots of them do that.

Well sales is in the same books as actively seeking out and then buying a chunk of a corporation to me. Its actually 100x worse. It totally grosses me out.

I am like the furthest thing from a hippy lol. I just fucking draw the line at profiting off of extorting people ON PURPOSE!!!

Well you are either going to have to change or move to some socialist and self-sufficient country (I don't believe there is one)... You're being way too idealistic. I'm an idealist as well, but you can't just ignore reality.

 

[Damien]

I don't think you're in a position to judge your girl. It seems like you're willing to take advantage of the situation as long as it's at levels below your arbitrary standards. I'd bet that there are plenty of people who could come and audit your lifestyle and say "OMG, you're judging her?!".

Sure you may not be going out of your way to take advantage of the system but you're still doing it. Maybe your girl has an easier time being honest about it with herself.

Has she gone to school for this sort of thing? Maybe for her, like you, it's not convenient or practical to not to take advantage of the system.