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Stimulants VYVANSE MEGATHREAD ⬅ your Vyvanse thread has been merged here

I think the anti-depressant effect is lasting; people have a hard time distinguishing a high from an antidepressant effect. There's no reason to believe the dopaminergic system is an anomaly relative to the other monoamines in this sense, or even in regards to peptides/amino acids.

Well, the antidepressant effect of a drug should be present when it isn't acutely making you high -- see, e.g., tianeptine, that produces both a mild acute euphoria (by indirectly facilitating dopamine transmission) and a long term anti-depressant effect (by spurring neurogenesis in the hippocampus). Amphetamine used to be used as an antidepressant; in 1937 the American Medical Association recommended Benzedrine (amphetamine) for "certain depressive psychopathic conditions" A slew of studies in the late 30s examined this effect, and the results were equivocal. Some studies showed that benzedrine helped in cases of mild depression but exacerbated more serious forms. Of course, there was no such thing as a randomized controlled trial back then, and many of these doctors were taking it themselves.

In any event, methylphenidate was invented as a replacement antidepressant for amphetamine because the later was provoking too many negative reactions and seemed to eventually give up its antidepressant efficacy after enough time passed for a significant percentage of the patients. Methylphenidate didn't do very well in clinical tests, and later controlled trials showed it worse than placebo for depression.

None of this is to say it will have any given effect on some person -- just that in general, I wouldn't count on amphetamine alone to provide a sustained antidepressant response, and even more to the point, if I noticed it was no longer working in that department, I would be very reticent to increase the dose in order to restore its efficacy with respect to mood.
 
Vyvanse is currently in phase three trials as an adjunct to major depression treatment, if that isn't evidence enough I don't know what is.

And they had more advanced scientific techniques back then for studies than is popularly thought.

Can you source that its loses its AD effect? Remember, we're talking about treatment for depression, not a high.

What makes it so different from bupropion?
 
Vyvanse is currently in phase three trials as an adjunct to major depression treatment, if that isn't evidence enough I don't know what is.

And they had more advanced scientific techniques back then for studies than is popularly thought.

Can you source that its loses its AD effect? Remember, we're talking about treatment for depression, not a high.

What makes it so different from bupropion?

Being in a phase 3 trial = proof of long term antidepressant efficacy? After learning a bit about the industry and the research process, I'm generally skeptical (until I see more evidence) of efficacy claims of drugs that get approved, let alone ones that are still in trials. Many approved antidepressants are known sometimes to lose efficacy in the long term.

Vyvanse certainly has a short antidepressant effects, and also I suspect has a clinical role as an adjunctive to an AD, and I'm sure in certain treatment resistant cases it could be the thing that makes the difference. But there is a reason that stimulants went from the first line treatment for depression to rarely if ever used for that indication. Leslie Iversen's excellent 2006 book Speed, Ecstasy, Ritalin: The science of amphetamines includes a discussion of the history of their use in depression and cites some of the turning point studies. A 2009 review of 24 randomized controlled trials of psychostimulants for depression found that "There is some evidence that in the short-term, PS reduce symptoms of depression. Whilst this reduction is statistically significant, the clinical significance is less clear." A 2007 review article argued that stimulants have a role, albeit limited to certain situations, in the treatment of depression, although the evidence it cites is also short term.

Looking through some of the older studies, there are a lot of reasons to question the long term utility of amph as an antidepressant. For example, in Ann Intern Med. 1 April 1971;74(4):605-610, "Amphetamine was found to be less effective than placebo in the treatment of depressed outpatients by British general practitioners... In still another British study, amphetamine also proved less effective than phenelzine, and no better than placebo, in the treatment of depresion. In a Veterans Administration study, dextroamphetamine was no more effective than placebo in treating hospitalized depressed patients." (p. 606).

Joseph Schildkraut, the guy that came up with and popularized the catecholamine hypothesis of affective disorders, similarly took a negative view:

"The psychomotor stimulants (for example, amphetamine, methamphetamine and methylphenidate) cause mood elevation, increased alertness and enhanced performance in normal subjects.42.43 These drugs may alleviate some of the symptoms of depression in certain depressed patients, but such beneficial effects are often transient and may be accompanied by a number of unwanted side effects. A review of the clinical pharmacology of these compounds may he found elsewhere.2.42 It is fairly generally agreed that the psychomotor stimulants have relatively little to offer in the treatment of the major depressive disorders. 1·2.5·7 These drugs, however, may prove to be of some value experimentally, in separating the various types of depressive disorders. For example, in one study, after the acute administration of methamphetamine, patients with the diagnosis of "neurotic depression"* were found to have a euphoric response, whereas patients with "psychotic depressions"* experienced dysphoria.44 Recent preliminary findings suggest also that the response to d-amphetamine may be useful in predicting the clinical response to imipramine in depressed patients." (pp. 198-199)
(Schildkraut, J. J. (1969). Neuropsychopharmacology and the affective disorders. (First of three parts). The New England Journal Of Medicine, 281(4), 197-201.)

Anyway -- this, and my personal experience, has lead me to believe that the antidepressant effect of amphetamines is not lasting. I think part of the problem is that it can have a tendency to destabilize mood. I'm not talking about at recreational doses-- just normal doses, I feel better than normal when it is kicked in, and mildly irritable when it wears off. Perhaps I'm wrong -- I certainly wouldn't tell anyone who experienced lasting anti-depressant efficacy from amphetamine that their experience is wrong. I just think it would be uncommon.

As for bupropion, I don't understand your question. Are you asking why it works? Are you suggesting that if it works, then amphetamine has to work because they are similar? Anyone who has taken bupropion and amphetamine I think knows that the subjective experience is not really similar. Bupropion's antidepressant effect, unlike that produced by amphetamine, takes a week or more to show up generally, and the mechanisms are poorly understood (as is the case with all antidepressants) but I think there is good evidence that the final common pathway is neurogenesis in the hippocampus, as every effective antidepressant regardless of pharmocological mechanism induces this effect via downstream changes. There are some people who don't totally accept the hypothesis and there is some evidence that is difficult to explain, but I'll leave it to the neuroscientists. Bupropion induces this neurogenesis, amphetamine doesn't (though unlike bupropion, amphetamine does induce neurogenesis in the ventral tegmental area and the substantia nigra pars compacta). If you are asking why they work differently, that's a complicated question but in short they don't have the same mechanism of action.
 
I've been having some fun with IV Meth for a few days last week. Today i ran into some adderall and vyvanse from a friend. i popped 40mg adderall IR(2 20mgs) sublingually, which i think gives a better high than just swallowing it, and 60mg vyvanse. It's an interesting combo if you're into uppers. I'm also mixing it with xanax, soma and IV dilaudid. I think i like adderall better though for coming closer to that meth feeling. Vyvanse is more of a smooth upper feeling high that lasts a long time(which is something i like). I popped the 60mg about 4hrs ago, So i'm going to take 1 30mg pill so the buzz keeps going. I actually wasn't where i wanted to be even after the vyvanse started working. But hopefully with this extra one, it'll get me to where I want to be. :)
 
Yesterday at around 3 in the afternoon, I popped a vyvanse that I stole from my cousins! I loved it, lasted so long, I've come down now and it feels like I've gotten a good nights sleep even thought it's been 24.5 hrs since I last sleep and 21 hrs since I've eaten anything because this drug can suppress your appetite.
 
I used to be prescribed 85mg of Vyvanse once every 8 hours in Senior year of High School. Boarding school sure went by quick.
 
Okay guys since I didn't see much more than speculation on the first five pages of this thread I would like to report that I was prescribed 60mg Vyvanse capsules and I took my first one this morning and it is FUCKING amazing. The perfect amount of focus without the uncomfortable side of dex or adderall. If you're taking this for school work I highly recommend it. There is, however, very little to no rush.

Good for sitting down and coding a website though. I should note that it is aggravating my tinnitus something fierce, but hey side effects. What can you do?
 
well my m.d. switched me from 40mg a day of methylphenidate IR to 40mg a day of vyvanse. the first dose of vyvanse i took made me sleepy and i passed out for about 5 hours. after that, though, it gives me a decent level of energy but not much help in terms of focus/concentration like IR amphetamines. And also the vyvanse lasts 7-8 hours MAX. my dr. wrote me an Rx for 10mg adderall IR to take at 5pm when the vyvanse wears off but 10mg of adderall didn't do anything, had to take 20mg to get any effect from it.

also, i asked my dr. what is the highest dose of vyvanse he prescribes to his patients and he said he had one guy on 70mg of vyvanse QID (280mg / day). he said that it varies for everybody (metabolism, liver/kidney function, etc)
 
Ive only had this on 3-4 occasions and never more than 60mg, back aches seem to be a constant side effect that I cannot get rid of the type requiring pain meds.
 
Hey guys. Quick question. I have been getting the 40 mg vyvanse capsules. I want to shoot them up. Everbody says, dont shoot pills up. I understand it is killing me slowly. But does it get you high? Everybody said dont shoot addys, dont shoot subs, dont shoot this dont shoot that. Well everybody who likes to actually get high, shoots these drugs anyway, despite the risk. So can you break vyvanse down in an acid like lemon juice or vinegar with a positive result. ie a good rush when you shoot it? Or does this pro-drug actually prevent this by any means? WHo has shot vyvanse, what were the results? thanks guys.
 
Injected vyvanase is still a prodrug, don't expect it to work like IV amphetamine. Obviously it will "work" in the same way that taking it orally will if you IV anyway, but don't expect a rush.

It still has to be broken apart by peptidases and that happens only slowly outside the body.
 
Injected vyvanase is still a prodrug, don't expect it to work like IV amphetamine. Obviously it will "work" in the same way that taking it orally will if you IV anyway, but don't expect a rush.

It still has to be broken apart by peptidases and that happens only slowly outside the body.

I've decided to challenge this thought.

EXPLICIT WARNING - I AM AN IDIOT, DO NOT EVEN REMOTELY CONSIDER TRYING THE STUPIDITY I AM ABOUT TO DISCUSS.

My first attempt failed, but I'll continue trying.

40 mg Vyvanse capsule, half capsule of probiotic digestive enzymes, 1 part water, 1 part concentrated lemon juice. Low heat.

There's definitely an initial feeling, but it completely vanishes in seconds. Zero euphoria.

1 ML solution Ivd right antecubital.

I'll continue tweaking and trying. I'll post updates later.

I don't need to hear how dangerous/stupid/impossible/nonsensical this is. I'm doing this out of absolute curiosity. It's similar to hacking a secure site or looking through someones email when you know you shouldn't.

To be continued...
 
It wouldn't be a problem converting it into amphetamine if you had some trypsin around. The easiest way to get trypsin would be from vomit, but I really can't see amphetamine junkies getting into swallowing vomit.

So I am new to the use of amphetamines, I have done about everything else. Are you saying vomit contains natural trypsin meaning if you were to vomit and saving before eating food etc. and taking vyvance for example that it would remove the lis or lis dex? Remember I am not a chemist nor to I dabble in amphetamines. Closest knowledge I have to this is ex-morphine addiction (intravenously.)
 
Personal experience, 50 mgs powder emptied into coca-cola, saw foaming over (sign of chemical reaction), as well as noticable increase in euphoric effects. Is this possibly an accidentally discovered method of releasing the d-amphetamine immediately?


Thoughts and all that, i've been around for awhile but i don't post much.. do you think i'm onto anything? or just placebo?

Any more thoughts on this?
 
it's good for recreational use. haha, that's why the DEA made it schedule II. It was indistinguishable from pure amphetamine in blind tests of "likeability" by abusers. I'd recommend it instead of a coke binge, or methamphetamine or adderall xr. It has about a 7 hour high, so it's useful for an all night rave or party.


The drug is made up of amino acids bound to dexedrine
By putting it in dilute acid, you can hydrolyze the bond to the amino acids and make it into pure dexamphetamine. There should be a thread on this. By doing this (and a few more steps) you can prepare a mix for snorting, plugging, or injection. Very easy, but, the high is just as good orally in my opinion, which, you are correct, is the only way to use the drug without additional steps.

Thread for this plz!
 
Vyvanse is Incredible! Wonderful euphoria, SWIM used massive doses of benzos for swim's anxiety and it was awful. V is a god send but for swim 150, 200mg is the spot. swim got 2mg kpin prn, took swim 18mg of that to sorta feel it. Benzo is so love and hate, but on V there seems to be an powerful anti-anxiety property for swim with GAD. The BEnzo tolerance is ramped up swim hopes for the consistency in a well regulated stimulant to finally taper of the Benzo. Vyvanse is a wonderful drug, and has a lot of potential, I'm worried about what IR remedies I can ask my doc for to keep me at a therapeutic dose? Maybe when I'm not a newby I'll make a thread between philosophical differences between therapeutic and euphoric or are they the same......
 
No need to use SWIM/SWIY. I also get some anxiety relief from Vyvanse. I think a lot of my general anxiety stems from my ADHD syndrome, and because Vyvanse so subtly and effectively relieves my ADHD symptoms, it also relieves my anxiety. I have been prescribed xanax for panic attacks for years, and I have come to resent having to use it. I do not like xanax as a recreational drug, but I do find it effective for nipping a panic attack in the bud (though it generally leaves me feeling a little stiff and cold after it does its job). Vyvanse seems to resolve these issues before they manifest, which is nice, but I do find myself feeling a little stir crazy at the end of the night (a state for which, on occasion, I could see a less intense benzo coming in handy). I know that it has been contested by some people in this thread that Vyvanse could be useful for the resolution of anxiety symptoms, but, in my case, I have found it indispensable.
 
Hi this is my first post but I was wondering about my tolerance to vyvanse. I get my own script every month along with two other fifty mg scripts. So I end up with about 90 50mgs a month. I've only been taking them recreationally for about three weeks. Before that I never touched them. It's now to the point where I'm having to take 3 in the am and three at about 2 o clock to keep my productive and focused feeling going. I'm also starting to have extreme paranoia and anxiety at night at my house. I was just released from prison and living in that environment for as long as I did might have contributed to the view that I have on life and my reactions to things. Like I said you were never very safe in there and now I don't feel safe when it gets night time and sometimes during the day. I have done some bad things to people and maybe it's my conscious but I was wondering if maybe it's the meds everyday and no sleep or what. I do have a naturally high tolerance for any sort or stimulant. Even methamphetamine doesn't affect me as it affects other people, or maybe I'm just asking too much out of these substances. Just want some opinions or advice on the subject and if I put this in the wrong place I'm sorry like I said it's my first time
 
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