Kratom Addiction/ Need Help After Withdrawals Are Over

Hey pods, i'm really sorry to hear about your situation with your girlfriend. She sounds like she's dealing with her own stuff and doesn't open up enough to get it off her chest so that she has the emotional energy for others... Either way though, I hope you can sit down with her and maybe try to tell her that you need her through this, and see how she reacts? Relationships are so tough.

Nancy congrats on doing so well with the interview! You're doing great and I bet you're going to start feeling so much greatness soon too. It's really motivating that you've been able to ditch kratom and alcohol, for me at least.

I was doing really well there, I did 3 days of not using any kratom or alcohol or other substances, just caffeine. 2 of those days, it was actually really hard not to have a drink... I guess I realize I do have a problem if it becomes difficult to do 3 freaking days without anything. I was out meeting a friend somewhere around my house and while waiting, I started to walk back to my house for a drink, but turned myself around halfway and went back. I was so proud of that. But then yesterday I drank a lot... I was just so depressed and didn't feel like I could cope, and that could be kratom withdrawal rearing its ugly head again since I picked it up again 3 days ago. Either way I am suffering from a nasty hangover as a result. I'm just waiting until my energy returns from the continued kratom usage so that I can start exercising again, and feeling good and sane AS I AM.... without these crutches.

Hey Asiam,

You should be proud of yourself. When I quit Kratom and drinking, it hit me like a ton of bricks that I was using them to 1) avoid thinking about something I didn't want to think about 2) PROCRASTINATE/RELIEVE BOREDOM AND 3) avoid doing something that was not the most fun thing to do in the world. Like PODS has said to me, EVERYTHING shifts. All those little triggers are now having to be dealt with in a different way - and I'm learning. So congratulations, you walked back there to avoid something and then your ass turned back around and said - no! I can do (fill in the blank) it without drinking.

Just being honest with yourself and willing will carry you through. Quit beating yourself up. We all have our own paths to quitting - something just clicks that's some kind of individual alchemy. Be nice to yourself. You need to be kind to yourself. A cliche, I know, but true.

Keep in touch!

Peace and love,
N

Sorry for repeated posts. I keep remembering stuff that might help re: kratom

I took Kratom every single day for three years, sometimes up to five times a day FOR ENERGY AND OPTIMISM!


I'm not lying - I now have more energy - every consistent single day and more optimism - every day than I did with Kratom. I don't know exactly why, but I do. Kratom now seems like a cheap, second rate way to get that high.

Thanks,
N

How did you get through the quit? Were you able to work and function or did you have to take some time off? How long did it last? What did you do to help yourself through. I want to be out on the otherside like you are. Any/all advice is so much more than welcome.

Peace,
pnm

nancylynnsmith said:

Sorry for repeated posts. I keep remembering stuff that might help re: kratom

I took Kratom every single day for three years, sometimes up to five times a day FOR ENERGY AND OPTIMISM!


I'm not lying - I now have more energy - every consistent single day and more optimism - every day than I did with Kratom. I don't know exactly why, but I do. Kratom now seems like a cheap, second rate way to get that high.

Thanks,
N

Click to expand...

Hey Pods,

That 'N' was me, Nancy. I wrote you a long private msg, but it wouldn't send because one of us was at max storage. I deleted some of my messages so I could receive. What was the last private msg you got from me?

Nancy

The last one I got was about your husband and friend and included this sentence. THIS IS WHERE YOU NEED TO BE AND HERE'S HOW TO GET THERE FROM MY PERSPECTIVE

Since you have fewer than 50 posts you have a tiny mailbox and can only send a message every 36 or 72 hours r something silly like that.

So if you sent one answering the questions I just asked about kicking the kratom, I didn't get it.

And Nancy, I knew it was you

pods

Sorry Pods,

That pvt one was not the last one I sent, I'll try to recover it somehow, or if I can't, I'll reconstruct it. So, going CT, the withdrawals were, I'm sure, physical, but mostly psychological - i.e.: learning how to do something healthy when I normally would've used for a) avoidance b)boredom c) procrastination d) energy/good mood.

The withdrawal lasted about a month - I think. The reason I don't know is the following symptoms could've been something else:
1. tremor rushes
2. insomnia
3. coma-like lethargy


This was during the month that I was in my home in NC, and I didn't have to do shit, and I was out of my normal environment. To tell you the truth, I needed that change of setting to instigate it. So I really did need a 'shift.' A weekend at the beach here in TX would probably have been an equally good, but shorter. I needed some kind of starting line, and going to NC for a month did it. I prepared for it mentally, as in, "Heeeerrrrreeee we go!"


My whole mindset about the withdrawals was 'suck it up.' Years ago, I had weaned myself off methadone that a migraine doctor prescribed, so I knew what realllllly hard withdrawal was like. The tremor rushes at that time were really bad. Thus the four months. I COULD NOT HAVE GONE CT WITH METHADONE, so I understand some people need to taper. But with Kratom I just sucked it up, and moderating my alcohol was a ridiculous idea since I have NEVER been able to stop drinking once I started.

You'll have to decide which one you want to do. CT was just cleaner and easier for me to keep track of.

Love ya,
N

Wow Nance, a month?! I'm not looking forward to that. Makes it seem like something I want to put off. Then again, I used to always put off quitting drinking. I'd always think about quitting tomorrow, and but every time I woke up it was always today. Every day I drank was always today. I never drank on a tomorrow. Make sense? I'm crazy.

When I wake up in the morning my eyes are watery, which was an early WD sign when I was using pods. I read that kratom withdrawals are way less than real opiates, but I'm just being a sissy about it. Plus, I've got plenty of kratom right now, so I don't have that added urgency of the pods becoming more scarce and more expensive.

Sigh. I often wish I was some rich celebrity so I could just take a nice 60 day vacation at some sort of spa and recovery place. That's probably just me wanting to run away from shit too though. And things are still touchy as hell with my gf. Seems she's made about zero progress as far as dealing with her anger since I told her about pods over 3 weeks ago, I think. Maybe 4.

My sponsor says I just need to deal with it today. I suppose I can.

feeling a bit defeated,
pods

OK, so I've meditated and I've decided it's never a perfect time to quit. So I'm going for it now.

Here's my plan/where I'm at. I'll keep this updated as I go through it. I had forgotten about DXM and how many have found it a godsend during WD and PAWS. So, after two moderate doses already today, I was feeling some mild WDs. I took about 100mg of DXM and poof. I feel much better. My past experience with it, using it for WD from poppy pods was mixed. I took a couple of large doses, around 400mg during the worst of it, and it lessened them, but I didn't know much and wasn't using loperamide or anything else.

For today, no more kratom. I'll take loperamide when/if I get shits or other tummy woes from WD. Tomorrow morning, I'll take some loperamide preemptively and 60 or 90 mg DXM, which is 2-3 times the recommended dose for a cough, but still nowhere near the dose that would cause a trip. My goal is to get through the worst of the WD time-window while still functioning, however uncomfortable and weird I may feel. I'll take a low dose of kratom when/if I get to the point of not being able to function.

This is a bold experiment and I've got a lot going on the next few days, but at least I have the rest of today to see how I do with the moderate dose of DXM at the point of kratom cessation. I had been taking kratom doses of about8-10g 4-6 times a day. So, later today will give me some idea of the days ahead.

I know, I know, I'm treating one drug with another, but dxm is not fun for me at the high-end "recreational" dose, and I'm using it to make the cessation of kratom tolerable since I don't have the luxury of time off to do so. So, for now, that's my plan.

You guys probably think I'm a nutcase. You may be right.

I love you all anyway,
pod and kratom nomo

Dear PNM,

I had started an email telling you to cheer up because I had no doubt that when you were ready, you would do it. Doing a bunch of stuff I didn't ordinarily do - everything from joining a dance class, getting my bike out, crocheting, reading stuff I wouldn't normally help me deal with the absence of abusing drugs/drink/food.

You can do it. You can do it. You will be SO FUCKING PROUD OF YOURSELF!!! You will feel like there isn't anything you can't conquer once you start to deal with, and get over, all the issues and just plain LIFE that we avoid by using shit. Just like with booze, when you quit, it's like, "Oh, okay, I can deal with this, I can deal with that, and this, and that and this and that! There are probably people in this world who have actually dealt with life in a healthy way. Maravillosa!!!

Keep us up to date. YOU CAN DO IT. Dont' be so scared of WD. It's what it is, and then you're over it. You're just going to have to suck it up for a little while!!!

PROUD OF YOU!
N

I love people, and you're a good people Nancy! That was just what I needed. Don't be so scared of WDs! Of course, one gets the total opposite by reading online.

It is what it is. I'll let you know how tomorrow goes. Right now I'm feeling the WDs coming. I'm going to eat, even though I don't feel like eating, which may be something I have to do for a little while.

I just have to get through this one, and that'll be my last substance. Well, I think I'll hang on to coffee and cigarettes for the near term.

Thanks for the encouragement and honesty Nancy. I can do it, and I just have to suck it up for a while.

I've done tougher things. Here I go!

warmest regards,
pnm

Fuck almighty. It's 7:30 a.m., the loperamide isn't doing much yet, and I'm looking at my busy day scared as hell. I might have to go for a taper here. Instead of my normal dose whenever the hell I want it, which is often, I'm going to do about 60% of my normal dose 3 times instead of 100% of my dose 5 or 6 times for today. Maybe I'll be ready for CT road by the weekend or next. Chills, sweats, shits, runny nose, watery eyes... I can't function like this. Dammit.

Alright. Did what I said. 60% of my normal dose and I'm still feeling some very mild withdrawals, which means this is a good dose for tapering for the next day or two. Then about two thirds of that dose for a couple of days. Then drop one dosage, but keep amount the same, so still a daily drop of a third, Then drop the twice daily down by a third until I get to about 2 or 3g twice a day. Then drop by half grams each dose every two or three days, until I can jump and be able to function. Damn, I got all revved up about quitting and being free, but this is going to take some doing. Shit.

Even when the reality of WD hits, nothing changes. Don't panic. It is still what it is, and so don't freak out. If you have to taper, do a miniscule amount, don't plan your percentages. Just wait as long as you can and take the teeniest amount you can to take the edge off. I think planning your tapering is one way you keep yourself from freaking out, and the reality is that if you don't do the exact PLAN you created, then you think you've 'failed' so go ahead and start over on another plan. I know I'm doing the 'bossy' thing, and I trust that you will only chew on what I've said and decide if it's applicable or not. Everyone has to do it the way it works for them.

Having said that, if you had a less rigid taper plan, then you wouldn't be able to 'fail.' If, on the other hand, you go as long as you can, and then did the smallest amount you can to take the edge off, eventually, you'll see the time and dose getting smaller and smaller.
N

Ohhhh pooooooddddddsssss

OK, so today I didn't take any DXM as it made me feel damn creepy, and I didn't go back to my old doses of kratom, but I didn't scrimp through either. I was thinking I just needed to take 4-6mg of loperamide to dent the withdrawals, but I'm reading about people taking 20-40mg at a pop up to three times a day. The reports seem good since it's an opiate that doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier. That's why it doesn't make you high. But it plugs into the opiate receptors in the gut, which stops the shits and for many, pretty much ALL of the physical withdrawals. If this works for me, I may have finally find a workable way out of this kratom habit without having to take several days off, which I am loathe to do. I just can't do my work and drive around to my different responsibilities and be able to do the kind of very people-focused, high intensity work I do with the shits, chills, sweats, severe anxiety, rage and whatever else that comes. And I know it comes. All my WDs so far have started just the way my pods WDs did. And kratom is a different animal than opium pods. The opium pods were predictable because I blended them up into a homogeneous mixture. But even though the kratom is blended up and seemingly homogeneous, I find that it sometimes makes me feel great, sometimes makes me feel nauseous, sometimes makes me feel tired, sometimes makes me feel energetic, and sometimes does a combination of these things between doses, with no apparent pattern. So, a taper seems like a bad idea, and I agree with you Nance about the idea of only taking the least I could need, but today was just too long, and I was too much of a wimp to go try to go through it miserable.

So, I'm going to try the higher doses of loperamide. I'm not going to start out at the really high doses right off, but will take a fairly aggressive dose in the morning and see how it does, and titrate up from there until I can deal. I'll keep a small amount of kratom nearby at first just in case. But I think I should be able to WD with the aid of loperamide and then just taper that as needed. There are so many rports around of this working for people with heavier opiate habits than my kratom addiction, so I'm quite hopeful that this will be the help I need.

The only thing that hasn't changed is my resolve. Well, it has changed; it's gotten stronger. I want freedom from this shit. If it comes down to it, and none of this works, I'll have to take a day or two off, like a Saturday morning and a Monday for three days to get through the worst. I work 6 days a week!

I know what you mean about feeling like you've failed because of messing up a taper plan, but I went through that so many times before I was able to get off the pods that I know that son and dance. All that matters as that I keep at it and don't give up.

Pray for me!

Love,
pods

hey pods, i really believe that you want this and you can definitely get through it, nancy is proof. Just keep chugging at it, and remember every step is a step in the right direction. I'm glad you are finding what works for you! I am praying for you and thinking about you. Nancy you are a really good friend


I just flushed all of my kratom. Well, I flushed about 500g, and then the toilet clogged..... Oops. So I threw out the other 700g and made sure it was mixed with the garbage. I have no kratom except for spilled stuff in the bottom of my drawer. I am DEDICATED, completely, to full recovery from ALL substance abuse, even caffeine.Caffeine might have to wait until after the lethargy of kratom withdrawal I did 2 days sober, and this was my third day. Something about that third day is so oo oooo hard! It is the turning point of decision. Even though, I did drink about 4 glasses of wine and some kratom today, but that was part of the motivation. About an hour after taking that stuff, I missed my sober state and the emotions I was on the verge of feeling, and wished I was back there.

What motivated this change is a combination of things. I went and hung out with a friend that really knows me as my sober, health-driven self, and he builds me up so much. Then I went and hung out with a friend who has been a trigger for a lot of my habits, and I realized exactly how much I don't belong with this person, and because I finally have another friend to talk to, I feel like I can distance myself from this person and it will be worth it. I always knew that this person was my main trigger, but I didn't want to distance myself because I relied on them so deeply for emotional connection. Today, I realized that this person is lost in their own drugs, and is not there and never has been since I've known them except for a few sober times, just like I haven't been.

This other, supportive friend I have, has offered me something really dear to my heart. He knows that I've always wanted to travel and connect with nature, and I opened up to him about my recent and new-found (well, 5 months now) addictions to alcohol and kratom and experiments with harder things. And he told me that he would go with me WWOOFing (volunteering on farms and in communities for accomodation and food coverage) AND also fund whatever I can't afford, which is half of the whole trip.... So I am leaving and going south to work on farms and in other communities for 2 weeks to a month, far away from any substance I can get my hands on and the triggers in my life, and into a spiritual atmosphere where there will be healthy minds and physical activity, fresh air and forests and oceans and all the things that call out the real me that I've been hiding from. I have social anxiety/agorophobia, so this trip is the most daunting thing I've ever done honestly, but if it gets me into real life and away from all the escapes I've created, and takes me away from the same atmosphere that has made me suicidal for enough time for me to get through withdrawal and deal with REAL LIFE again, that's all that matters..

One thing I'm realizig though, is that I have to rely on SOMETHING each evening when the feeling of real emotions and loneliness hits... It's a horrible feeling and I need to start relying on comforting self talk, self love and care, letting myself do childish and comfy things, and this includes overeating for a little while. Yesterday I ate 3000 calories! That's a lot for a little girl like myself, 1500 of it was in the evening when I was craving substances, but that peanut butter and milk and eggs and all the other things I ate for comfort kept me away from kratom and alcohol. Originally I used kratom to both alleviate social anxiety and also to lose weith and for motivation to exercise. So, I am going to have to accept and be willing to gain like 10 pounds to get off of it, despite already being overweight. 10 pounds for my mental health and energy and emotional coping skills back? 10 pounds to grow again spiritually and feel connected to my soul? SOLD!! I am here-by allowed to eat as much as my little child self desires as long as it's not something that will take away from my spirit..

Woooooowwwwwwwwwwwww,

Asiam, I am really glad to hear from you. I wasn't sure that you were still with us. WE KICK ASS!!! I think you are doing an amazing thing, and the theme I detect threading through all our stories is that each one of us - you, me and pnm - has a good life, and for whatever reason, we avoid ANY unpleasantness - big or small - with SOMETHING : drugs, booze, kratom, food, pods. What we have to face may be hard, but I'm finding that when I get a craving, I ask myself, " What am I avoiding at this moment?" And most of the time it is so minor - like boredom or mild anxiety, etc. Sometimes it's big, but even that is not as bad as I thought it would be. When I decided to face my demons, it felt really good - mainly because all my big scary demons weren't impossible to face.

What a great friend you have to take you out of your situation. You sound like you're young (twenties maybe?) and I spent my twenties in a long, continuous drunk and cocaine haze. Looking back, I could have done so much during that time, before I had so many responsibilities. You're going on an adventure! THAT IS WONDERFUL. Getting out of your surroundings will help. It helped me. Even if it's only for a day or two, I think getting away from all your triggers is really helpful. You sound like you know yourself. You have a clear grasp ON WHO YOU REALLY ARE - not the food, kratom, booze you. I hope you'll have an opportunity to keep us up to date on your progress.

Since I'm a step ahead of you guys as far as kratom, I should tell you how it's progressing. I feel so 'myself' now, that I realize what a half-rate high Kratom was. Yes, it felt good - then. But now, knowing how it compares to the energy and optimism that is coming naturally because I'm exploring activities and thought patterns to deal with the cravings, kratom looks pretty lame - as does booze and food. Like you, I used food just like I did Kratom and booze, but much more often. When I started to realize what a diversion I was creating with kratom and booze, I started looking at food. I bought a book that asks dozens and dozens of great questions to help you get to the bottom of any particular addiction, and I've been using it to look at the food one now. It's called Sex, Drugs, Gambling & Chocolate. It has been very helpful as I slowly answer the questions it asks.

PNM, I was worried about you. I was really glad to hear from you. YOU HAVE MADE UP YOUR MIND. THAT is the most important part of this whole process. All I can say about the WD's is that they WILL pass. Do what you need to do to get through them. Even after two months, I still have trouble falling asleep, and so I'm taking 50mg trazodone and melatonin liquid. I don't know if it's from WD, but I'm dealing with it somehow, so I don't mind it, even though insomnia IS THE MOST ANNOYING THING IN THE WORLD.

Well, I'm glad to hear from both of you. So, I have three more weeks until school starts and the shit hits the fan. I KNOW it will be really, really hard, because teaching high school has got to be the most absurd, crazy-ass, stressful, ridiculous job there is, especially in a big city school. I haven't heard about the job I really wanted (really close to home), but I guess I'll hear today. If I don't get it, I'll have my first major disappointment to deal with as far as doing it without a kratom/food/booze crutch. There's no way to avoid that. I'll have to face it head on.

It's so weird to care so much about people whose face I don't know, but you guys are my support group. I have AA, family and friends, but this forum is a chance to get down to details. Anyhoo, if we ever want to put a face to a name, we can. However, maybe the anonymity is what we need right now to be completely honest with one another.

Take care PNM and ASIAM. I do really care how you're doing.

Love, N

ASIAM,

I'm sorry. It sounded like I was saying start dealing with your food thing. No. Not right now. Eat until you feel like a tick!
N

Gee fellas,

I could use you guys back on here. My husband keeps telling me how proud he is that I quit Kratom and booze, but tonight said, "You can have a drink every now and then, unless you're convinced you're an alcoholic." That kind of sucker punched me. He doesn't think I'm an alcoholic. Even after confessing how much I drank. I think he thinks I've talked myself into being labelled an 'alcoholic' and it's not necessarily true. I'm a high functioning drunk. But I'm still a drunk. I almost had a beer 'to see if I'll get out of control." But I didn't! But I almost did. However, I asked my diversion question: what is really going on, and the conclusion was, I didn't want him to feel lonely when he had a beer. Wheww. So close.


I hope ya'll are okay.

Love,
N