Ending a 5 year relationship with opiates.

hi all. i've been a heavy user since 2006 of all kinds of painkillers. finally in august of 08 i decided to get on suboxone. well i tapered down to about .15mg and yesterday was the first day i didn't take anything. i saw my doctor for the last time and he gave me some meds to aid with the withdrawal. i actually got pretty decent sleep last night too except a little tossing and turning.

surprisingly i dont feel too bad right now. in fact i dont feel bad at all for the most part and im wondering if the suboxone is still in my system and im not withdrawaling yet. last night i was getting some symptoms and my last few doses were far apart. tuesday at 4am i woke up kicking like crazy so i took .1mg and before that monday around 6am i did the same so i figure i must be in it now and its just not that bad.

i actually went to bed at 10 30 last night and woke up at 7 am today. normally ill go to bed at 4-6 am and wake up between 12 and 2pm.

sorry, nobody is posting anything in the bupe thread and i have nobody for support except my girlfriend but she doesn't understand. i just wanted to ramble because im up so early and dont know how im gonna spend the entire day without crawling the walls.

My suboxene taper wasn't nearly as bad either, but my situation was a little different. After a heroin/suboxene habit that lasted a year and a half, I got arrested and was in jail for 24 hours sick. When I got out, all I had was half of an 8 mg suboxene, so I tried to make that last a while. I made 4 mg last a week somehow, and my withdrawals were honestly not that bad. It helped that I was withdrawing off of subs and not coming right off of heroin. The worst for me was feeling sooo tired and achy. If you don't have to work, you are lucky, because I don't think anyone escapes the pain in your muscles.

I think if you are tapering with a very small amount, and you are not feeling strong or full blown withdrawals, then they will stay maneageable and your taper wont be as bad as you expected. Have your girlfriend nearby and make her distract you or give you a massage or something; having someone else who you love around really helps you stop thinking about how crappy you feel. If you feel freezing when you wake up (or you are covered in cold sweat) then take a hot shower and bath and you will feel sooo much better. If you have restless legs, just go for a run and pound the pavement until you are exhausted. Or whatever exercise you prefer. If you feel like no one gets you, maybe listen to music about the same thing you are going through? That helped me. Pool Shark by Sublime is a good one. If I think of anything else I'll tell you.

im starting to feel chills and slight aches but honestly its not bad. im worried today will be okay but tomorrow when i start my work week ill be in for a shitstorm.

i usually wake up at 1 in the afternoon and watch tv. today i woke up so early and watching tv while kinda sick and anxious is pretty damn terrible. i think im just gonna pop 4 valium, smoke some weed and pass out at the beach.

i think im at the 30 hour mark with nothing. i figure the half life has it sill in my system even on such a tiny amount and thats why im not too sick. heres hoping i tapered low enough that it wont be bad at all.

you're lucky you live somewhere where its still warm enough to go to the beach! cold weather makes the chills so much worse. I found that when I was withdrawing, taking a steaming hot shower right when I woke up helped keep me feeling warmer the whole day. If I didn't take a shower that day, I just felt chillier and crappier. The aches will probably bother you for a while, especially if you have to go into work. Advil helped me with that, but be careful of taking too much (liver damage and whatnot). Chugging coffee/espresso lattes helps for when you are tired but need to be awake. Actually, I feel like I traded a dope addiction for a coffee addiction now, so maybe that's not the best advice, but you cant get a felony for possession of coffee.
I think if you are already at 30 hours, you wont face much worse withdrawals. It sounds like the rest of your taper will be uncomfortable but not terrifying. I know how it feels!

PendulumAM said:

you're lucky you live somewhere where its still warm enough to go to the beach! cold weather makes the chills so much worse. I found that when I was withdrawing, taking a steaming hot shower right when I woke up helped keep me feeling warmer the whole day. If I didn't take a shower that day, I just felt chillier and crappier. The aches will probably bother you for a while, especially if you have to go into work. Advil helped me with that, but be careful of taking too much (liver damage and whatnot). Chugging coffee/espresso lattes helps for when you are tired but need to be awake. Actually, I feel like I traded a dope addiction for a coffee addiction now, so maybe that's not the best advice, but you cant get a felony for possession of coffee.
I think if you are already at 30 hours, you wont face much worse withdrawals. It sounds like the rest of your taper will be uncomfortable but not terrifying. I know how it feels!

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well just got back from the beach and i got the skin burning thing going on pretty bad now. energy went down a ton and while i was laying out i kept nodding out but then RLS would kick me awake. i hope it doesn't get much worse though because this is manageable. the problem with today is im alone and have nothing to do so sitting around sick where every minute feels like an hour is brutal.

uugghhhh.....being sick just sucks and every minute does feel like an hour ...look up the stuff on here about dealing with WD's on here..alot of good tips..

Best of luck. I have been in your position far too many times. In three days I will have a year substance free (except for Suboxone). For years, I struggled with a relapse cycle. Be cautious of this. A few months off, 2 weeks of using, taper off, a few months off, 2 weeks on, taper off, repeat repeat repeat. It took Sub+Therapy to get me to realize that I A. Had to take some time completely off of everything (which I am still doing). B. Cannot control opiate and hard drugs.

I am not oppossed to maybe seeing if I can have a beer here and there. But now is not the time. Stick with it. If I can do it you can too.

If you want my honest opinion no you are not going to get wds that will make you much incapable of doing anything.

I had stopped at a higher dose (.25mg) and did not get much of anything in the way of physical wds. A few hotflashes here and there, some minor diarehea and that was really it. However I was very much decieved coming off sub by the PAWs phase of withdrawal. I was fine and dandy and even happy and excited till day 7 came around. I swear to god I had stopped my sub, and actually felt pretty good for the most part. But that day 7 turn around was very very rough.

And I'm talking about the depression and apathy that came storming in pretty hardcore. Just remember there was NO HINT of it till day 7 for me.

At that point my body felt like it weighed 500lbs, I could not leave my house, I was severely anxious and depressed. And although I was not having classic physical wds, I simply could NOT function the way my brain had become at the time. No way I could work in that condition even coming off such a small dose.

What I would do is hang out off the sub for a week. It will all work its way out of your system at that point. You will also believe like I did that it worked its way out sooner. And no I can't absolutely guarantee it will be the same way for you, but I still think you will get the PAWS because almost everyone who comes off sub seems to report a longer and more intense PAWs phase. That is the trade off I believe you get with sub. It dissociates from the receptor site sooo slowwwllyy, that you don't really physically wd, but you do get PAWs, and I remember reading a study saying the PAWs from sub were way worse than drugs like heroin.

So let me be straight with you. I relapsed at day 23 and relapsed hard. But ONLY because I told myself "I'm done with this shit". I suggest you dont fall into the same trap I did. If you need to go back on .15mg GO BACK ON. And then continue to taper. Use scissors and cut that shit up or do what I'm doing and do a liquid taper. I plan on tapering my sub for past .15mg because my experience at .25mg made me mentally incapable of going to work. I have a job I must work 6 days a week now and before I didn't so like I said I will be tapering my sub likely till I am under .01mg. When I jump off that shit the dose won't even be one that I can actually see anymore. Its going to be in liquid solution and extremely dilute.

Sub is just an insane antidepressant and you do not realize it till you come off small doses and are slammed by the worse depression you can imagine. I am focused on nothing but that depression. Fuck physical wds. They can not harm you in the same way that psychological wds can imo. The depression doesn't really start during physical wds and thats why most people can make it through them. It starts far afterwards when the very last bit of sub has left your receptors and its very decieving like I said.

Do not hesitate to go back on if you need by day 7. You can try fighting it like I did but man I really had no idea how depressed I had become till I found myself trying to drive my car off the highway and I kept fantasizing about hitting telephone poles. This would happen literally EVERYTIME I was in my car. That shit fucks with your head big time. And your dr can give you meds but chances are they won't be strong enough because they're not opiates.

Like I said don't be afraid to go back on if need be.

take care of yourself and keep us updated.

Bojangles were you on poppy pods? i seem to recall your name in one of the mega threads. thats what i was addicted to for the last phase until i went to methadone/suboxone.

today i was actually very busy. i didn't have work and normally would sit on my ass all day but i was actually very active and had a good amount of energy. basically from 11 am to 9pm i was out and about busy busy busy which is very good because laying around i would shoot myself.

you got me very nervous with the PAWS warning though. im not really feeling bad physical at all. in fact i think ill be able to work fine tomorrow and was doing quite a bit of physical stuff today. the worst part about today was laying at the beach for an hour, even on 20mg valium and weed i still twitched and tossed like a motherfucker, and from 9:30 to 11 i was laying in bed CONSTANTLY moving around turning over 2 pillows to get the cold side. i need the clonodine for sleep but other than that the physical is not bad at all and i dont really have bad depression.

i think im around the 40-44 hour mark with no painkiller. i am taking low dose loperamide, like 2 mg every 5-10 hours, but i dont think that counts.

Larson, I wish you all the luck in the world. I hope you continue to do well and can get completely clean, but if you feel you need some suboxone, don't feel ashamed or embarrassed. Do what you need to do for your physical, mental and emotional health.

i actually tried to go back to bed but kept kicking so i took another valium and clonidine so now im just smoking a cig. i really dont feel like im in withdrawal at all except when i lay down and kick. prior withdrawals were absolute hell this is nothing really. i planned to give away my last suboxone as to just get it over with once and for all

Sub withdrawal doesnt even start till like 3 or 4 days off it... The physical withdrawals can last up to a few weeks... the PAWS last months/yrs?!!! .... Ive quit sub twice... one time 15 months sober the other time 11 months.. It is fucking hard as shit to quit long term...

I'm back on it.....

fuck sub is some riduclously hard shit to quit; I am scared even thinking about it;; Bojangles is right thoug... THe pyschological torture is way worse then the physcial withdrawals.. They both suck though....

Sub really is some horrendously addicting stuff; I really believe in 14 day detox only.... Maintence if your a serious drug addict and have tried all other methods and still failed...


God just when you think its over ;

Way harder to quit than oxy or H.. cause of how long it lasts

you guys are startin to scare me. i took quite a bit of my valium and built a tolerance quickly. is this is gonna suck tomorrow or friday then fuck i dont know what im gonna do.

my doctor says he tells his patients 5-7 days but usually they are through it in 3-4. fuck.

Larson0 said:

hi all. i've been a heavy user since 2006 of all kinds of painkillers. finally in august of 08 i decided to get on suboxone. well i tapered down to about .15mg and yesterday was the first day i didn't take anything. i saw my doctor for the last time and he gave me some meds to aid with the withdrawal. i actually got pretty decent sleep last night too except a little tossing and turning.

surprisingly i dont feel too bad right now. in fact i dont feel bad at all for the most part and im wondering if the suboxone is still in my system and im not withdrawaling yet. last night i was getting some symptoms and my last few doses were far apart. tuesday at 4am i woke up kicking like crazy so i took .1mg and before that monday around 6am i did the same so i figure i must be in it now and its just not that bad.

i actually went to bed at 10 30 last night and woke up at 7 am today. normally ill go to bed at 4-6 am and wake up between 12 and 2pm.

sorry, nobody is posting anything in the bupe thread and i have nobody for support except my girlfriend but she doesn't understand. i just wanted to ramble because im up so early and dont know how im gonna spend the entire day without crawling the walls.

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Awesome job man! Tapering down on sub isn't easy, but you're doing great so far and are on your way!

When getting near the point you're at I've always felt like it was weird to go from taking something everyday (even if it was a low dose) to suddenly not taking anything at all. I've been abusing opiates for 6 years now and at one point I did a long slow taper off of suboxone. I had been on sub for 12 months, and then spent another 2 months on it doing a slow taper from 2mg down to about .1 - .2mg, basically the point you're at now.

I highly recommend focusing on spending more time between doses. For example, if you've been taking .15mg every 24 hours, try not to dose until you've gone 30-36 hours. Then on your next dose try to go even longer between dosing, or at least match the previous amount of time. So maybe you were taking .15mg every 24 hours, then you go to 36 hours between doses, then 48 hours between doses, etc. This might feel like it's just delaying finally stopping, but suboxone builds up in your system and takes over a week to fully clear out. This helps to get it out of your system, but in a more gradual way. It also makes it easier to deal with the idea of not taking anything. By doing this you're not just one day suddenly stopping. You're going from taking it every 1.5 days, to taking it every other day, to taking it once every 3 days, and before you know it you just won't need to take it at all! :D :D YAY!


YOU"RE ALMOST THERE! Stay strong! If you haven't been already, you should really start doing some exercise. It's going to be a great way to help with anxiety, problems sleeping, lingering depression, etc. Just keep at it man! Don't even worry about PAWS at this point, it's just going to make you feel anxious and take away the focus you have on your taper. Try to maintain a positive outlook on this. You've done great so far, focus on that!

Thats actually brilliant advice that Carl gave nevermind what I said if its only going to make you more anxious lol. I did not have clonidine and valium at the time so you are already much better off. I would not be in a rush to stop completely thats jmo. And dosing exponentially is a really a great idea.

Larson,

I take my hat off to you for ending the opiate relationship.... in fact, I think it sullies the word relationship: certainly in my case - which is on-going - it's something of an abusive relationship although I couldn't say for sure which way the abuse is going (the analogy becomes too complicated at this point).

Anyway, it sounds like you're doing just grand but as someone else wrote: don't be ashamed to go back on the subs for a little bit if things get TOO unpleasant..... still WAYYY better than relapsing onto other stuff.... but I reckon you'll be fine without.

Hang in there mate and keep on smoking, popping the odd valium and going to the beach to keep your mind off the opiates and their WDs...

All the best!

That is good advice carl, but im done tapering. i went from 8mg down to 2mg in a month and just prolonged my tapering for a year. im at hour 52 or something like that now with nothing and today is worse than yesterday but not too bad.
more worried that i have to go work in a hot kitchen standing for 8 hours doing fast physical work today.

i might hold on to 2mg of sub but really i think the temptation to use it will be high and i'd rather not have it. i dont have access to any opiates so im not too worried about a relapse.

i just wish i had stronger valium lol

Bojangles69 said:

Sub is just an insane antidepressant and you do not realize it till you come off small doses and are slammed by the worse depression you can imagine. I am focused on nothing but that depression. Fuck physical wds. They can not harm you in the same way that psychological wds can imo. The depression doesn't really start during physical wds and thats why most people can make it through them. It starts far afterwards when the very last bit of sub has left your receptors and its very decieving like I said.

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this is so true. when you are on opiates, you think of suboxene as a much lesser drug that just works to stop withdrawals, since you are comparing suboxene to something much stronger like heroin. but when you are in bad withdrawals and take a nice big dose of suboxene, you notice how much happier it makes you feel. but Larson, think of the days before addiction, when you could wake up and not have to worry about being sick or running out of opiates or medication. eventually that will be you again, and it will be great. you just have to make it through the hard times right now, and slowly, things will get better and closer to the way they were before.

if you are feeling achy and tired then work might suck tonight, but it will help get you moving which will make it easier for you to sleep tonight.

sleeping is actually not a problem. i tossed last night a bit but im going to bed way earlier than when i was only on suboxone. the clonidine and weed really work.

you guys are really makin me nervous with all this warning talk lol.

Larson0 said:

That is good advice carl, but im done tapering. i went from 8mg down to 2mg in a month and just prolonged my tapering for a year. im at hour 52 or something like that now with nothing and today is worse than yesterday but not too bad.
more worried that i have to go work in a hot kitchen standing for 8 hours doing fast physical work today.

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I work in a kitchen as well at a banquet hall/catering place. I've been to work a number of times when WDing and a few where I was lightly WDing on a taper like yourself. The first 1-2 hours are pretty crappy, but once you've been moving around a bit and get into the flow of things it actually feels better to be working. This way you're out of the house a bit, you're accomplishing something, and it's helping the hours go by.

I find low doses of adderall and/or caffeine to be helpful, but this is very subjective. It can increase stomach issues, but if I take low doses of each they help give me some energy so I can work and function a bit easier.