Ending a 5 year relationship with opiates.

i actually haven't had any stomach problems at all. previous times i was in there every hour pooping juice lulz but this time its actually much better.


when i was on suboxone i had extreme stomach cramps for the first 2 hours i was awake and always had diarhea at 2 pm on the dot. now the 2 or 3 times i've shit have been healthy logs with no discomfort, lol
 
extremely dissapointed in myself. today i was giving away my last 2mg of sub to a friend for some weed, and i took .5 or so for myself. it got me high too. i feel like i let myself down so much and cant bring myself to tell my girlfriend or anyone else. i have no access to any painkillers at all and wont get any if i could anyway, but i just felt like shit the moment i took it.

everything was going great. i was waking up early, spending more time with my girlfriend, we had a great day today, etc. then driving into work i had the 2mg for my friend and a small piece in there too and decided fuck it, its gonna be a busy night, why not?

my withdrawal felt like it was almost over too. now i feel like im gonna be sicker tomorrow than i was 4 days ago, even though i probably wont. i have to work a 12 hour shift tomorrow too. im just so pissed at myself for doing that because its been sitting in my drawer next to my clonidine, valium, weed, aleve, immodium, etc and i never even had the urge or thought to take any of it.

i feel like i fucked up big time, even though im overreacting. it was only sucking when i was standing still, otherwise for the most part everything was goin great. my parents are fully supporting me, my brother, etc. my dad has been on methadone 38 years and he even says he isn't going to come off it for the pain hes in plus he knows how bad the withdrawal is. my mom has been on painkillers 10 years but is in extreme pain. they are going to help me with some valium for the coming weeks.

i haven't had any bad depression or anything yet and in my mind i feel like it wont be bad. the worst i've felt thus far is the feeling of letting myself and everyone who was counting on me down, even though i wont tell them i did it.

i could really use some support from you guys. i check this thread 4 times a day hoping someone can give me some advice or success stories. i dont really want horror stories though because im not having a bad time with my withdrawal. this has been the easiest i've ever gone through so far.

i had 106 hours without painkillers until 4 pm today. the feeling of breaking that record (for me) is heartbreaking.

i could really
 
anybody? anything? this is when i could use support. my withdrawal is pretty mild. got some head buzzin going on right now that happens late at night. i should be in bed by now but finally was able to get my dick hard after taking clonidine and fuck my girlfriend. today was my day off but it was raining all day and i did nothing except wait for my package of valium, which was sent to the wrong address and added so much stress to my already fucked head.

main symptons now are constant sneezing, which i literally haven't sneezed in 5 years on opiates now i sneeze 3 at a time every 20 minutes. some slight headache and lethargy starting at late afternoon.

can anyone give me something? my girlfriend has never done drugs except smoked weed a few times so she doesn't understand. i only have my parents to talk to because they're both addicts but not recovered. my dad did it for a year clean and then decided fuck it hes spending the rest of his life on methadone. thats all the support i have right now.

and i put the wrong time in my original post. 2005-6 i started my addiction. august 2010 i got on sub. october 11th 2011 i stopped sub. im forgetting about that 1mg i took saturday because i would be at 190 hours had i not done that and the feeling of 1 week vs 3 days is a lot more encouraging
 
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Hi Larson,

I'm really sorry your thread got overlooked - it wasn't anything personal at all, it just happens sometimes when there is a lot of traffic in the forum, and we've had a staff changeover too, so there has been a bit of upheaval.. I'm glad you've found someone to talk to in shady4091's thread - I hope you guys can help each other out. Equally, feel free to continue posting here in your own thread and let us know how you are doing <3

I don't have any personal experience in opiate WD I'm afraid, but I'm here to lend an ear if you need to talk!

I'm really pleased to read in shady4091's thread that you are currently 10 days clean - that's brilliant, good work! How are you doing at the moment? I hope things are starting to look up <3
 
anybody? anything? this is when i could use support. my withdrawal is pretty mild. got some head buzzin going on right now that happens late at night. i should be in bed by now but finally was able to get my dick hard after taking clonidine and fuck my girlfriend. today was my day off but it was raining all day and i did nothing except wait for my package of valium, which was sent to the wrong address and added so much stress to my already fucked head.

main symptons now are constant sneezing, which i literally haven't sneezed in 5 years on opiates now i sneeze 3 at a time every 20 minutes. some slight headache and lethargy starting at late afternoon.

can anyone give me something? my girlfriend has never done drugs except smoked weed a few times so she doesn't understand. i only have my parents to talk to because they're both addicts but not recovered. my dad did it for a year clean and then decided fuck it hes spending the rest of his life on methadone. thats all the support i have right now.

and i put the wrong time in my original post. 2005-6 i started my addiction. august 2010 i got on sub. october 11th 2011 i stopped sub. im forgetting about that 1mg i took saturday because i would be at 190 hours had i not done that and the feeling of 1 week vs 3 days is a lot more encouraging

Sup Larson. Man the most annoying part of suboxone withdrawal is the duration. You'll be kicking for at least 2 weeks and should start feeling better after about a month. The most important thing you need to do is stay active. Go out and do stuff with your girlfriend even when you feel like crap. I just had to keep my self busy and do tons of stuff to keep my mind off of it.

Stay strong and you should start feeling happier around 3 weeks- to a month in. After that your probably going to have some post acute withdrawal symptoms for about another 3 months. Get alot of excercise and start eating healthy. Remember you need to get out and do stuff that you normaly wouldn't do. Change your life style around, your not going to be sitting around high on opiates anymore. Get out there and enjoy the world. Do fun stuff with your girlfriend. You'll get through this and look back one day probably blown away on all the time you spent on opiates.

My best advice to you would be ignore the post acute withdrawal, that was the worst part for me. It takes awhile to get back to normal. But i'll tell you one thing if you make it through your probably not going to want to do any opiates for along time.

Just wanted to add, taking some suboxone during the withdrawal happens to all of us. It's just sitting there and you know it's the cure to your problem. So dont feel bad. It happens and your recovering. I was going to nod out later but changed my mind after remembering suboxone withdrawal. Yuck.
 
Larson first off do NOT beat yourself up over taking that .5mg sub *THIS* is precisely the way us opiate addicts learn how to actually quit opiates. We try quitting a thousand different times, in a thousand different ways, and eventually if we are smart we refine "our method" down to something that eventually works.

I think the reality is simple. You took that sub because the transition was likely too hard or traumatic for your brain. You came off of dosing at a small amount, but you were still taking that amount everyday. Your body was USE to get sub everyday regardless of how much it was. I really really stress that with quitting opiates, one of the most important things is manipulating how much stress you are exposed to. If you are taking on too much stress for too long, and not actively trying to avoid triggers (like driving around with sub in your possession I can't tell you how many times I've snorted sub in my car) you are that much more likely to use.

However, if you break the addiction like Carl said, by dosing every 2-3 days, maybe even 4 days, very low amounts, it will be a shiton easier to stop. Less stress on those busy work nights. Less ruminating over every single sucky aspect of your day. The stress slowly builds up and the second we are faced with any remote trigger, we will use.

You can go back to full blown using. Or you can go back to strategic dosing and revise a new method. I understand how intense the desire is to just want to stop and get shit over with... but really why are you in a rush to stop? If you were able to dose say .10mg, every 3 days, for the next month... then stopped after that I imagine it would be a breeze to get on with life.

We have cravings switching to sub cause it doesn't hit our receptors quite like the full agonists. But we *stablize* over a couple of weeks and the cravings go away.
Same with tapering. I was at 5mg a month ago. Am at 3mg today. Every time I drop my dose I have cravings to use for about a week. After that my body adjusts and I'm ready to drop again.

With quitting, I really think even if you are taking like .01mg a day, just because you are taking it everyday, its still going to be hard and you're still going to have cravings if you stop 100%. And that final stablization period can take a lot longer before you feel better. Very much like the tapering drops. But opiate addicts I think are really too cocky and thats what always fucks them in the end. Do not just assume you should be able to tolerate coming off the dose you did.

Can you? Yes. But look at life objectively. You have work, you have a gf, you have many different roles you must play, all of which are stressful even if you weren't coming off opiates. So I say make that transition as smooth as you possibly can, and you will be that much better off.

And I've said this before but quitting an opiate habit is like landing a plane. Sometimes the wheels touch the runway (the days you don't use) but they don't just hit the runway and stay on the runway. They bounce up and down a bit untill its a smooth ride. Use this to your advantage and intentionally bounce your wheels. Don't try stopping all at once and expecting a smooth ride. Really man all you would need is like 1 more 8mg sub. Cut that shit down into .1mg strips, then just put them under your tounge every few days. It will become easier and easier to stretch the days like Carl said.

I REALLY think if there is any painfree way of stopping sub that would be the way. Be realistic with yourself it would make life so much easier.
Last thing. Clonidine helps A LOT for opiate wds. You will see some people say it didn't do much for them, and the reason is simple, doctors underprescribe it severely. They give opiate addicts the same amount they would give to a person with hypertension. But opiate wds are wayyy more intense than hypertension. If you can get your doctor to raise your dose even just 150%, it would help a lot with anxiety cause thats what its all about. Control the stress, control the anxiety, be as strategic as you fucking can. Consider yourself a green beret at quitting opiates. It will only benefit you in the end.

God I can't wait to get under 1mg of this shit again. Cause I'm telling you this time I'm not fucking around. I'm doing this jump off exactly how my brain tells me. If its telling me it needs .0001mg of sub, I'm giving it that. As long as I'm always going down in my use thats all that matters. I have no specific day mapped out for quitting and I don't think people should. You quit when your brain is ready. Respect your brains biology, that shit is sensitive as fuck. But I really think you can do this man just focus clearly and understand what works and what doesn't.
 
Dam bojangles I didn't know you fell off the wagon. I remember reading your post about a year ago. Just go extremely slow like you've been doing and you'll glide right off of it.

When I quit I didn't taper low enough and had a terrible withdrawal. It's worth it to take the extra time and go to really low doses and then start skipping days. This gets your body used to not having suboxone in your system. Simply tapering low and then stopping isn't going to work as well. Unless your the type of person that just likes to get it over with.

Hope you can get it this time.
 
i've only gotten some lethargy in the afternoon and head buzzing at night. still have a couple valium for sleep which help, but thats about it.

today i felt great. woke up at 10, sat in the sun and wrote for an hour while i drank tea and smoked, had tons of energy for most of the day, did some excercise and everything was fine. i got pretty tired at work around 8 30 but that was expected and nothing bad.

i figure in 2 days i'll be good.
 
Been following you round threads a bit after you wondering which to post on, but that's really good to hear Larson. Nice one. :D

If you're sleeping, eating, and feeling like you have enough energy to even want to exercise then the immediate hard part's as good as done then. Definitely broke the back of it. Next task is managing the temptation to reward yourself with little treats. Don't do it. ;)
 
IN RE To Sub Withdrawal Length:

As a former pod user, I can attest to the length of withdrawal being a biatch. Sub is the same way... the withdrawal last longer but is nowhere near as intense as it is with the short acting opiates. I am currently tapering my sub very very slowly. Its seems as if sometimes when I drop the WD is semi-difficult, slight headache, stomach stuff, minor restless leg (I HATE restless leg). But that is the worst of it. Other times I only notice lethargy and depression.

The slower I go the easier. Usually I will drop my dose by .5 for a few days-week and than when I feel ready go down to the lower dose. Since I have done this, I haven't really felt anything physical. When I get too under 1 milligram I am going to probably do the liquid dropper thing. I know I respond well to tapers from my using days.

No shame in taking Suboxone IMO. Furthermore, DO NOT take any judgements you get from 12 step members seriously. They are not your doctor. They are lay-people. If they cannot accept that people get clean in many different ways than they are not worth listening too.

As for cravings, I have not had any in quite awhile. I will occasionally think "a beer would be nice now", but that is normal and many people think that thought. I don't really consider that a craving and I haven't thought about alcohol or anything else in awhile.

It seems that for many, things get much easier after 3 months, it really did for me. The great thing is it keeps getting better. Using is just not something I do anymore, it is not an acceptable response to depression or anxiety.

Has anyone used the strips with the liquid method? I have some leftover tablets, but am prescribed film now (and like it better). Just thinking ahead, as I will likely be doing it in 4 or 5 more months. Perfect timing as we will be heading towards Spring. Kicking anything has always been way way easier for me in the Summer.
 
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Hmm not sure specifically what you are referring to by "liquid method". But I think thats what I'm doing. I'm just snorting my liquid though not putting it under my tounge. I feel like I always get more consistent absorption intranasal compared to sublingual. Like there would be days I'd do sublingual and my mouth would just be more wet that day with saliva (other days especially in the morning it would be dry), and it always seemed like I'd go into random wds taking it under my tounge. Some days it would absorb, other days I'd have so much liquid in my mouth it was hard not to swallow a bit or it would get diluted so much with saliva it wouldn't absorb at all. Just a note for sublingual people not sure if others have that issue but I did.

Back to the point when I use to use the sub pills I'd dissolve a large amount of sub in water first, (like 8mg to 16ml = .5m/1ml) then freeze the amount and use a syringe to measure out my doses for the rest of the week. I was worried about the sub breaking down in the water while it was stored which is why I'd just keep it froze. Then thaw it out in the mornings to dose, and refreeze for the day. A small amount of liquid like that you can thaw in like 2mins fyi.

NOW however I use the strips. And because the strips are SOOO much easier to measure doses (w/out even really needing water to standardize a solution) just by folding in half over and over and cutting in the middle, I use a weekly pill storer instead. I cut the strips down into little .5mg squares then if I need finer increments will cut those squares down in half. I measure out my doses and put them in the pill reminder and I love tapering this way cause its impossible to fuck up. Like this week I did:

mon -3mg
tues - 3mg
wed - 3mg
thurs 3mg
fri - 2.75mg
sat 2.75mg
sun 2.75mg

then every week on sun I refill it adjusting for my new levels. Like next tues I should be at 2.5mg. However I may slow down the tapering a bit because it seems I'm getting to the point where I can't cut as fast as when I was at 6mg. Thats one thing with sub the lower you get the slower and slower you gotta taper. And same for me I don't get much most the time except a bit fatigue and depression. Once I get down to around 1mg though I know thats when I tend to get hit with sleep problems, but w/e I'll just slow down if I need.

And then like I said I just take the strips and put them in my "snorting syringe" (has a 4" elongated tube [windex bottle tube] on the end of syringe that goes up into my nose). I hot glued it on and love the way it works don't even gotta tilt my head back and the solution shoots right were it needs too. Will add like 3ml of hot water, hold the syringe under hot water afterwards and shake it for a minute for the strips to dissolve. Just to speeden up the process. When I get down to about 1/4ml left in the tube I suck in a few more drops of water and thats my "nose wash out" dose. It still has sub but is more dilute, just to get the rest of the sub from inside my nose and up into my brain. Generally takes about 30mins to dose this way as I'm getting ready for work.

So far no problems with it and everything is going fine. A bit depressed/down today but no big deal at all. My mood will get better over the next couple days till its ready to drop again. Anyway this isn't my thread lol not sure wtf I'm doing with all this ranting. Keep us posted Larson!! I'm *especially* curious to see how you feel after 7 days with no sub... since like you know that was when things got real for me out of nowhere.

-Bo
 
good idea with the liquid dosing. and i feel you on the saliva with the strips. i had days i had to take 2 doses because it would wash away or stay then or stick to my wet finger, then i'd get sick later.

for my taper i was at 2 mg for probably a year twice a day. i took a lot of willpower to drop down to 1.5 but i did it one day with no discomfort. after that i sliced little bits off a day to 1 mg. stayed on 1mg for prob 2-3 weeks then dropped to .75 for 3 days, .5 for 2 days, took my last dose tues morning at 4 or 6 am and went to see my doctor. he gave me 40 weak valium and like 5 clonidine which i had to keep calling for a refill for because valium didn't do shit except make me get an hour of sleep when i was bored.

but yesterday i felt so good. it was like i was high all over again. i got 5 hours of sleep and had to work 9:30 am to 8:30 pm. got out of bed, did some pushups and light jogging in place, stretched, made tea, went to work. did a quick inventory and put a nice hard punk rock cd on and that was it. my energy spiked and i was running around all day. i crashed kinda hard at 3 30 so i ate, stretched, did some more exercise, and was ready to go. the only symptom i get now is head zaps in the late afternoon through the night and runny nose.

weekend starts tomorrow. i tihnk im gonna go to the gym with my girl and see if we can do it together(probably cant) then im gonna see my brother and were gonna do something with food. he has 3 pounds of ribs, i might get a bushel of blue crab, were gonna go to a tapas place and eat blood sausage and iberico prosciutto

then im gonna introduce him to the 3 best food items ever. foie gras, sweetbreads, and BONE MARROW! im excited that i actually have plans that dont involve watching tv and doing nothing.

i've been writing outside every day for an hour or 2 in the morning getting a good tan and trying to remove these damn junkie eyes but they wont go away. i live in florida and it was nice the last few days but now its hot as fuck so i was only out there for half an hour today. still got burnt too.

2.5 more hours till work. need to eat, workout, and prepare to kick ass.

sobriety is something i haven't felt in years and it feels so good. its like a high in itself when your used to being numb.
 
trying to remove these damn junkie eyes but they wont go away.

Awesome progress man! Glad you're doing so well!

I hate that junkie eye look. I notice it goes away after I got some clean time and exercise under my belt. Once I've gotten some miles in me again from running, my eyes start looking a lot less distant.
 
in 3-5 hours ill have 2 weeks from my decision to quit :)

i know i cheated once and took that .5 or 1mg suboxone, but im ignoring that. mostly because i barely remember it and it made my next day so much worse
 
Great news Larson. Hope you're proud of yourself. You should be. ;)
 
FUCK i felt like shit today. kinked neck, aches all over my body, depression, etc. the works. felt like day 1 all over again. but the day is almost over.

i went and bought some nice cigars, a nice bottle of scotch(not totally sober, wtfever) and the book for whom the bell tolls by hemmingway. the metallica song and the story behind it made me want to read it while smoking one and sipping a single malt. my girl and i got in 2 fights today, one even questioning our relationship which was difficult but i was able to face it. once i got some time to myself i cooled down but god i felt sick. we fucked and i came 4 times today, once jerkin it while she was away and 3 times in a row fuckin her. funny how easy it is to pop one when your dopesick. also a bit graphic here, but when im sick and about to cum for the first time that day i shoot out a looser juice before i pop the full load. but i was able to give her the affection and love she needs and deserves which is why we fought earlier and fuck er proper

guess ill start reading this book. oh yeah, eating fresh jalapeno while dopesick = you feel much better. natural painkillers go crazy in your body and its like exercising.
 
also, am i a bad guy for drinking? im a chef so wine and food pairing is natural to me. i enjoy small craft beer and occasional single malt scotch and cigar combo

im supposed to be sober. but i smoke weed and i drink. my drinking has stopped dramatically since i stopped taking suboxone but i still drink a beer a night or so. i know its alcoholism creeping up on me but i dont know what to do. i love pairing wine and food, its what i do for a living. i love a good craft brew. i smoke cigarettes like a chimney (trying to fix that one first)

how do you all feel about that?
 
Hey Larson

Some people (namely rehab people) will tell you that any sort of intoxicating substance should be avoided while you are trying to go clean. They seem to think that any drug will lead you back to your drug of choice. I've been clean from heroin and other opiates for about 4 months now going on 5. I went the hard way and went cold turkey. Well almost, I took a couple vics and xanax here and there when things got unbearable. But if I didn't have weed and hard liquor for the other days I honestly would probably still be doing heroin right now. I think going completely clean from all substances is for people who can't take things in moderation. You don't strike me as that type of person.

So in my opinion feel free to smoke a joint and have some scotch. As long as those things don't lead you back to your addiction.

P.S. Congrats on making the choice to go clean. I know it can be hard. Its been nearly 5 months for me and I still catch myself thinking about. It gets better with time trust me :)
 
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Hey Larson

Some people (namely rehab people) will tell you that any sort of intoxicating substance should be avoided while you are trying to go clean. They seem to think that any drug will lead you back to your drug of choice. I've been clean from heroin and other opiates for about 4 months now going on 5. I went the hard way and went cold turkey. Well almost, I took a couple vics and xanax here and there when things got unbearable. But if I didn't have weed and hard liquor for the other days I honestly would probably still be doing heroin right now. I think going completely clean from all substances is for people who can't take things in moderation. You don't strike me as that type of person.

So in my opinion feel free to smoke a joint and have some scotch. As long as those things don't lead you back to your addiction.

P.S. Congrats on making the choice to go clean. I know it can be hard. Its been nearly 5 months for me and I still catch myself thinking about. It gets better with time trust me :)
yeah, without suboxone i get hangovers. im hungover as fuck right now and i barely drank much. my lungs feel black too i now have a smokers cough which i never had while on suboxone.

think ill get one of those electronic cigs today. this is too rough. almost puked coughing so hard
 
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